Adventures in Table Top

boffer wrote:

ralitaco wrote:...The other option which I am leaning towards would be to install 1 or possibly 2 eyelets into the 2x8's on each side and run steel cable through them....

This one's a definite non-starter for me.  Steel flexes and stretches. You'd never be able to get the cable taut enough to prevent sagging.

I thought about that too, never getting it tight enough, but I was thinking it would just be there to catch the wood if it falls.

boffer wrote:

ralitaco wrote:...Of course, I could just drill a hole through the 2x8 and run either the cable or a piece of steel conduit, too. (this one just occurred to me and I haven't really thought it through)

I like this one.  I had a thought this morning about using a dowel, broomstick, or shovel handle in that manner.  But I like your idea of using EMT the best: easy to do, clean looking, and cheap.

Cheap is good...So what were your thoughts on how to best install the EMT. 
I am thinking I could use 2 lengths of EMT cut 4'3" long and bore a couple of holes on opposing 2x's. then I could slide the EMT through the holes, putting collars on the inside of the 2x's right next to the 2x to keep the EMT from moving out. I would then cap the ends of the EMT. 
I think that would be very simple to do but I am not sure how useful it would be...would it be strong enough to support much weight?

I'm headed out to put some chicken on the grill. While it's cooking, I'll do an experiment and post the pics later this afternoon. (my time zone!)

My major concern is how close the holes can be to the edge of the 2x.

Let me back up for a minute.  Several years ago on the forum, we attempted to theoretically calculate the weight of a 4x4 TT made of 2x6's and full of properly saturated MM.  Water is by far the heaviest component.  Only one person had the interest and patience to measure the water used to saturate new MM.  She figured roughly 20 gallons.    There's too many variables to obtain a small accuracy range: initial moisture of the wood and MM components plus an accurate description of 'properly saturated'.  We settled on a gross weight of 250 lbs +/- who knows how much!  We agreed that if a good size man could sit in the middle of an empty TT, then the TT was safe to fill with MM and water.

The EMT is supported at 47 inches.  40 lbs. hanging at the center.



The deflection is less than the diameter of the EMT, slightly less than 3/4 inch.  It just occurred to me that I should have tried distributing more weight across the entire 47 inches.  Oh well, too late now!



Drilled holes close to the edge.  90 lbs. hanging on the EMT.



I was aiming to make the hole edge 1/4 inch away from the edge of the wood, but I goofed and ended up 1/8 from the edge.  There was no indication of pending failure with 90 lbs, so I decided that was a good place to stop!

Raliitco
Just notch where you want it to be and it will lay flat

Thanks Boffer and Jimmy Cee for your replies.

And thanks Boffer for the awesome test.
I think I am going to put in 2 pieces of 3/4" conduit for now.

Almost ready to plant. So here is what I am thinking I will use:

Vegetable	Squares	# per Square
Celery	1	1
Cucumbers - Slicing	1	2	Trellis
Edamame	2	9
Lettuce - Leaf	1	4
Lettuce - Leaf	1	4
Lettuce - Leaf	1	4
Lettuce - Leaf	1	4
Pepper - Bell Green	1	1
Pepper - Bell Yellow	1	1
Squash - Zucchini	2	0.5
Tomato - Cherry or Grape	2	1
Tomato - Slicing	2	1

Any advice on companion planting and location (eg - put the Trellis on the North side or Be sure to put the lettuce South of the tomato, etc.)
Also, I am not sure about the Edamame...sounds like very little yield, but I love that stuff and it is expensive in the store.

thanks as Always
PS - I am in zone 8, I think...zip code 28443 about 5 miles from the ocean as the crow flies.

Can you really grow lettuce in the summer in NC.  I hope Kay can address that question. 

I grew Edamame and it was very productive for me.  More than English Peas.

yolos wrote:Can you really grow lettuce in the summer in NC.  I hope Kay can address that question. 

I thought you could.  I am planning on it so we'll see

ralitaco wrote:

yolos wrote:Can you really grow lettuce in the summer in NC.  I hope Kay can address that question. 

I thought you could.  I am planning on it so we'll see

My spring crop of lettuce is always great.  Starting in late May/early June,  I move to 2 cement mixing tubs under a filtered shade tree. (I have mine up on cinder blocks)  I plant one tub and then 4 weeks later I plant another.  Lots of water needed.  As soon as the first tub starts to taste too bitter to eat, I pull it up and replant.  Same with the second.  I kept lettuce going until late Aug last year doing this.  Swiss chard will keep producing all summer and I like pole beans on a trellis to replace the spring lettuce in the bed.  Chard can take the heat. 

Kay

Ok, 2 pieces of 3/4" conduit installed as support under the 4x4 plywood.
I drilled 7/8" holes but probably should have gone with 15/16" holes. I had to make the holes a bit bigger to get the conduit through, but they are in there and they are snug.

  

I did pretty good with the placement of the holes. Of the 4 holes, 2 were about 1/16" below the plywood with enough room to easily slide the hose clamp in place. 1 hole was right against the plywood and I learned that 8 cu feet of MM is very, very heavy. I tried to lift up on the plywood to slide the clamp in place and I failed. In my defense, I was sitting under the bed and trying to push up with my head and one hand while moving the clamp with the other. I did finally get it in place though. The last one was the victim of me not keeping the drill level and it ended up about 1/4" down from the plywood. Oh well, I had to remind myself that I was putting these in as a safety precaution to hopefully prevent losing the MM if the plywood rots all the way through at some point. 

 

And btw, I put hose clamps to make sure the pipes didn't slide one way or the other, but seeing how hard it was to get the conduit in place, I don't think it will be an issue, but I already had them so I figured I'd use them.

All I have left to do is plug or cap the holes and paint them covers white.

walshevak wrote:My spring crop of lettuce is always great.  Starting in late May/early June,  I move to 2 cement mixing tubs under a filtered shade tree. (I have mine up on cinder blocks)  I plant one tub and then 4 weeks later I plant another.  Lots of water needed.  As soon as the first tub starts to taste too bitter to eat, I pull it up and replant.  Same with the second.  I kept lettuce going until late Aug last year doing this.  Swiss chard will keep producing all summer and I like pole beans on a trellis to replace the spring lettuce in the bed.  Chard can take the heat. 

Kay

Thanks, Kay. I have never tried chard, but sounds like I might soon.

Ralitaco, I also feel better now that you have the EMC in place. Thank you, Boffer for your test.

I am really, really hoping/needing to get some plants and/or seeds in the ground otherwise, I think it may be too late. So since I have the one box pretty much done, I figured I needed to get it going with what I know I will eat and what I think I can grow successfully. 

So here is what I think I will plant, where they will be planted and how many per square. I think I have selected the right plants for summer. I think I will need to buy transplants vs starting from seed at this point.

Let me know your thoughts, concerns, suggestions, etc. 

South corner                                                          West Corner

Grape Tomato  x1	Leaf Lettuce x4	Grape Tomato  x1	Leaf Lettuce x4
Leaf Lettuce x4	Bell Pepper x1	Swiss Chard x9	Grape Tomato  x1
Leaf Lettuce x4	Grape Tomato  x1	Bell Pepper x1	Zuchini x0.5
Pole Beans x9	Pole Beans x8	Cucumbers x2	Zuchini x0.5

East Corner                                                             North Corner

Thanks in advance.

2 x 9 pole beans or 2 x 9 bush beans? Or did you mean 2 x 8 bush beans?

sanderson wrote:2 x 9 pole beans or 2 x 9 bush beans?  Or did you mean 2 x 8 bush beans?

I meant Pole Beans / 8 per square.
I don't really know what the difference is as I have never grown them...or much else for that matter. 
Maybe I should do 1 sqare of each and find out?

ralitaco wrote:

sanderson wrote:2 x 9 pole beans or 2 x 9 bush beans?  Or did you mean 2 x 8 bush beans?

I meant Pole Beans / 8 per square.
I don't really know what the difference is as I have never grown them...or much else for that matter. 
Maybe I should do 1 sqare of each and find out?

The major difference in terms of where to plant the beans, pole beans grow 5 - 10 feet high depending on the variety and need a trellis.  Bush beans don't need a trellis, just something around the squares to keep the bush beans from falling over into adjacent squares.

Some folks slightly over plant to allow for seed mortality. If you end up with too many plants, you can always snip the extras.

yolos wrote:The major difference in terms of where to plant the beans, pole beans grow 5 - 10 feet high depending on the variety and need a trellis.  Bush beans don't need a trellis, just something around the squares to keep the bush beans from falling over into adjacent squares.

Wow 10' high!!! I would love to see that. 
Can they go up and then back down or just up?

Just an update.
I found some 3/4" wood caps to plug the holes where I had drilled to install the conduit.


I even got a chance to put on some paint before the rain.
 

And I made a grid out of extra 2" blind slats. Right now it's just sitting on top, but once I mix in the compost I will push it down a bit. 


I also picked up some bags of the NuLeaf compost. I was going to post some pictures but the rain came.

ralitaco wrote:

yolos wrote:The major difference in terms of where to plant the beans, pole beans grow 5 - 10 feet high depending on the variety and need a trellis.  Bush beans don't need a trellis, just something around the squares to keep the bush beans from falling over into adjacent squares.

Wow 10' high!!! I would love to see that. 
Can they go up and then back down or just up?

My trellis is 8 feet tall.  The rattlesnake beans reached the top and got all tangled up on top of the trellis.  I had three trellises in a two foot wide bed.  Way over kill.   At the top, my netting stretched from one side of the box to the other so the vines did not come back down, they all tangled up at the top.  This year I removed the middle trellis and the netting on the top, so I hope they will come back down.  Many people say the vines do come back down toward the ground.  Here is a picture of my rattlesnake beans last summer.

Wow YOLOS, that is AWESOME!!

Oh my goodness, Yolos, what huge beans you have!  Beautiful picture.  Makes me wish I had more room so I could try something like that!  As for beans climbing back down, I've never had mine do that ever.  I think they're programed to climb up and that's it!  Usually mine twine around each other for a couple of feet above the trellis!

littlesapphire wrote:...As for beans climbing back down, I've never had mine do that ever.  I think they're programed to climb up and that's it!...

DARN. My TT is already up of the ground about 3' so I was hoping I could train them to come back down. I guess I could try with one of them...that is presuming I ever get them planted AND they actually grow.

Talitaco, you might try letting them hang down...?  It's worth a shot.  I know some people let their beans vine on the ground, although that seems like an invitation to slugs.  Then again, I doubt you have slugs in your TT! Also, another idea is to trim them.  My experience with tipping bean vines is that they send out side shoots.

ralitaco wrote:

littlesapphire wrote:...As for beans climbing back down, I've never had mine do that ever.  I think they're programed to climb up and that's it!...

DARN. My TT is already up of the ground about 3' so I was hoping I could train them to come back down. I guess I could try with one of them...that is presuming I ever get them planted AND they actually grow.

I was kind of wondering how you would be growing pole beans in a TT.  I have considered, when they get to the top of the trellis, tying a string onto the growing tip of the vine.  Then letting the string hang down and put a little sinker on the end of the string to help the vine grow down.  One of those little bb size sinkers.   Keep adding little sinkers until the vine starts to grow down.