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Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.

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Pre-made mels mix

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Post  southern gardener 6/23/2012, 2:26 am

That's funny about them saying they don't carry it! That's where we bought all 50-60 bags! We do have some of our own compost ready, and have added it to some off the boxes, and the stuff is really taking off. It's just so frustrating to spend $700-$800 of hard earned money and get these results. We are not one to take short cuts or "cheap out", that's why we decided to get the "real thing" and do the garden right. I am hoping they do follow up on their promise to us. I too am wondering if it was the latest batches from So. Calif that are the problem....
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Post  Chopper 6/23/2012, 2:29 am

Per what is listed - 5 composts, peat, vermiculite, bat guano and worm casting - it should be great. You never know though. Things may not have mixed properly - you got the peat, vermiculite heavy side - or who knows. For now I would add some amendment and keep adding compost as you finish each square.
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Post  tabletopper 6/23/2012, 3:41 am

At $12.95 per bag it shouldnt be necessary to add anything more...its supposed to be perfect.....didnt notice any instructions on the bag to add anything........my last 2x4' is still sitting there doing nothing l pepper died......lettuce kale and and beets are stagnet....7 peppers left are in a coma.....

Chopper:..somehow you got the hint to add something more....my neighbor just added steer manure to her dirt and is doing well...
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Post  genes 6/23/2012, 10:54 am

Dind't they have problems with a supplier on the east coast a year or two ago. Quality Control must be difficult in that type of production.
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Post  ramarks 6/23/2012, 11:36 am

Chopper wrote:btw, went to Lowes looking for more and the clerk said they never have carried Garden Time. Odd, as that was the very store I bought my last bag from. However, big box clerks try their best but are often uninformed - a lot to know with all that space.

From Mel's Mix to cell phones - you spend a little time researching and you know more than most of the store clerks - in any store. I've had the same thing happen on items I bought in Lowe's or Home Depot a month ago. "Online only...always has been." Except I bought it there last month...probably still have my receipt.

This is one reason I made my own. A bit of a pain - not quite the proper recipe (not five composts) - but I know what is in there when I go to add. The plants are loving it.
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Post  southern gardener 6/23/2012, 12:44 pm

We did make our own, and it didn't work out very well, probably because we didn't use the correct balance of the composts. Then we read here and in the book to be sure you have the 5 different types of compost, and had trouble finding all five, then to fill 12 boxes and all that mixing we thought, might as well get the "good stuff" right from Mel and do it right. We wanted to start our fall garden, and be ready for the spring too. That's why we purchased the mix. Also, to make that much compost from our own available items would take a long time, so we opted to purchase the mix, and make our own compost in the mean time. So, we emptied all 12 boxes and re did them with the purchased mix, and there clearly is a problem. There are a few squares that are great, but for the most part, it's spindly tiny yellow plants. The person we made the box for as a gift happened to come over this morning, and he said his plants never took off either. Plants about an inch tall, then stopped growing. I felt awful, as we gave him the box as a thank you, and I boasted to him about how wonderful fresh organic food would be for him.
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Post  southern gardener 6/25/2012, 5:59 pm

Never heard from Rick at GroWell, so I called and left a message. I received an email today saying they are still working on getting the mix right, and then they will ship me the soil! I can't wait to get going!!
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Post  tabletopper 6/26/2012, 7:35 am

At last a response...from the company.....you have really hung in there......hope they found the mix problem.....good luck with your 12 boxes.....satisfaction guarenteed is what is sez on the bags......happy gardening when you receive your replacements.........Ruth
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Post  cpl100 6/26/2012, 1:16 pm

Does anyone know (and have you asked the officials) how widespread is this issue? Is it confined to your area or is it country-wide? I am just starting (getting my building kit today) and am afraid to buy the mix (if I can even find it).
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Post  southern gardener 6/26/2012, 6:49 pm

CPL100, I am not sure....the contact info is:
Rick Johnson
Vice President of Marketing
GRO-WELL Brands, Inc.
420 East Southern Avenue
Tempe, AZ 85282
Phone: 704-293-8480

if I were you, I'd contact him, and ask. It's SO much work to get everything set up, and have the soil be an issue. He said they are testing what they have now, to be sure it's done "right". Good luck. Tabletopper, you might want to ask him about getting you some too? Can't hurt. That stuff isn't cheap! Good luck!!
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Post  tabletopper 6/26/2012, 7:07 pm

Southern Gardner.....your Gro Well address is in Ariz....that might be the problem....the other address was Conn.....maybe its just our western problem....

I have only 34 squares at the present time as I broke my hip a few months ago.....but I was still looking forward to my fresh veggies this summer......You are such at great warrior......at 87 yrs old I dont have energy left to persue this.....I didnt keep any receipts....I hope you get your replacement and it works wonders....Happy Gardening Ruth
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Post  BrotherNorm 6/27/2012, 8:50 am

I have to tell you I'm not sold on Mel's Mix. There are plenty of threads that talk to the fact that a first year MM may not have good results but the following year would be better. This is my first year so I won't know the veracity of that until next year.

That being said there are folks with gardens around me that are using various planting soils from the big box stores and theirs are doing much better then mine. I've harvested a few things but in general most veggies are either not growing past where they were a month and a half ago or the yield is low.

As an experiment I started another block of squares and I'm using a different mix. I want to compare the results.

I've given some thought to the components of MM and to me there seems to be an imbalance. V makes up 1/3. This adds no nutrients for the plants. Its only purpose is to retain water and prevent the soil from compacting which improves airflow within the soil.

1/3 peat, adds no nutrients to the soil until it completely breaks down whic would take more than a year. Holds moisture only when it stay's very wet and if let to dry out acts like desiccant.

1/3 compost, adds nutrients but the nutrients it brings to the table can very widely depending on the compost that is added.

So, 2/3 of the mix adds little (peat) to nothing in the overall nutrient value of the mix. And depending on the composts chosen the problem could be exacerbated at worst or still not add all that's required at best with mixed results from year to year depending on the availability of the composts.
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Post  RoOsTeR 6/27/2012, 9:25 am

BrotherNorm wrote:I have to tell you I'm not sold on Mel's Mix. There are plenty of threads that talk to the fact that a first year MM may not have good results but the following year would be better. This is my first year so I won't know the veracity of that until next year.

That being said there are folks with gardens around me that are using various planting soils from the big box stores and theirs are doing much better then mine. I've harvested a few things but in general most veggies are either not growing past where they were a month and a half ago or the yield is low.

As an experiment I started another block of squares and I'm using a different mix. I want to compare the results.

I've given some thought to the components of MM and to me there seems to be an imbalance. V makes up 1/3. This adds no nutrients for the plants. Its only purpose is to retain water and prevent the soil from compacting which improves airflow within the soil.

1/3 peat, adds no nutrients to the soil until it completely breaks down whic would take more than a year. Holds moisture only when it stay's very wet and if let to dry out acts like desiccant.

1/3 compost, adds nutrients but the nutrients it brings to the table can very widely depending on the compost that is added.

So, 2/3 of the mix adds little (peat) to nothing in the overall nutrient value of the mix. And depending on the composts chosen the problem could be exacerbated at worst or still not add all that's required at best with mixed results from year to year depending on the availability of the composts.

Mel's always looking for new ideas to improve the method. If you come up with something better, let him know Very Happy

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Post  Turan 6/27/2012, 10:53 am

BrotherNorm wrote:
As an experiment I started another block of squares and I'm using a different mix. I want to compare the results.

What sort of mix are you experimenting with? One reason I ask is because most potting mixes are seem to be mostly peat with vermiculite or perlight and possibly a forest product compost with fertilizers mixed in. Or are you making your own mix?

I suspect if one has to buy components, including compost, it is hard to make a bio active ecology of soil that can feed plants well, hence the need for adding fertilizers.

Just for clarity of where I stand in all this..... My beds are filled with my compost that was originally tilled into my garden soil. Since then I have added more compost and sand over the years and a bit of bone meal etc.

I am curious how many of the long time SFGers here use some sort of fertilizer amendments in their beds? That would include chickety doo etc anything with a listed NPK if bought or similar if home grown like compost teas. Maybe that is another thread.

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Post  mhjr5500 6/27/2012, 11:14 am

Why can't you just use something like miricale gro potting mix?
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Post  Yus 6/27/2012, 4:59 pm

Why can't you just use something like miricale gro potting mix?
I have read that it supposedly won't support the intensive planting spacing over the course of the season. You could try it and report back; add fertilizer as necessary. It appears most gardeners just pick and choose certain features of SFG that they like and use them.
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Post  plantoid 6/27/2012, 7:28 pm

Norm you hit the nail on the head about the 1/3 nutrient theme.

Mel's words are true honest and were very pertinent when the book was printed. I'm sure that the bags of compost etc displayed in the pictures in the book did indeed contain useful levels of nutrients and were well composted .

However that book is now seven years old , the pictures perhaps even older and the world is in recession bordering on a depression , so corners will have been cut time and time again wiith respect togetting decent composts with sensible nutrient levels in it .

I'm betting most will now be manufactured to the minumum legal requirements because of cost , time constraints & cash flow / ROI difficuities ..

The big problem is getting those five different composts well made , so that they have the right nutrient levels and no weed killer , no barely composted matter or excess of partly composted woody materials. My thinking is that most commercial composts will usually contain whatever there is a lot of and if it is cheap then so much the better.

Where there is a a bag described of as containing neat guano , fish , pelleted chicken waste , bags composted dairy cow or steer dung then you will get exactly that but wehre there is an endles list of contents to the bag it is doubtful that you wil be getting the higher quality stuff the we need for making our MM .

I understood this after reading Mel's book twice and as a consequence have sourced all sorts of animal manures and beddings for my own blended compost as well as getting hold of some 4 yr old cold composted stable muck with wood pulp and straw in it for the initial making of the MM

My garden is growing like crazy .

Picture of my own home made compost from veg waste , six or more types of manure and some barley straw . This is what I will be replenishing nutrients in emptied square with.

Pre-made mels mix - Page 2 Hollyandgarden007

Pre-made mels mix - Page 2 Hollyandgarden008



This is a commercially composted material which has added nutrients aparently , note the gert big mess of uncomposted root ball that actually grew inside one of the bags along with glass , plastic and very big bits of cut up hard & soft woods .

I used it in my new greenhouse salad beds ,it would not grow anything in it till I to scratched some fish , blood and bone meal into the top 1/2 inch & left it for 10 day befiore sowing into it and putting some seedlings in . I suspect the reason for no growth was it was robbing the nitrogen out the compost due to the uncomposted wood /hard fibre content taking it big time .

Pre-made mels mix - Page 2 Hollyandgarden012



This is my trailer of MM for topping up the beds , filling seed trays , plant pots & big tubs

It is straight composted coconut fibres & peat , coarse vermiculite and a blend of of pig , sheep , duck , turkey , goose , cattle , chicken , rabbit and horse muck with beddings .

It's that good you could grow extra legs on your baby brother by just having him stand next to the trailer .

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Post  tabletopper 6/27/2012, 10:07 pm

Brother Norm.........you are in Virginia........so it must be more wide spread than Calif....where Southern Gardner and I am in the Calif Area..........I have used purchased Mels Mix in the past and been happy but must add steer, chicken or worm compost with each new planting of a square....

So time will tell what the problem is and how wide spread it is..........

Speak up...other forum members......we are not the only ones buying Mels Mix........Ruth
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Post  southern gardener 6/28/2012, 12:49 am

we just harvested two boxes, of onions, 288 total. Only two were even somewhat usable. The rest were not much bigger than they were as "sets" in the fall. The tops looked pretty good, and loooong root systems, but not much "onion" Sad . I hope my replacement soil gets here soon! bounce
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Post  BrotherNorm 6/28/2012, 9:55 am

Turan wrote:
BrotherNorm wrote:
As an experiment I started another block of squares and I'm using a different mix. I want to compare the results.

What sort of mix are you experimenting with? One reason I ask is because most potting mixes are seem to be mostly peat with vermiculite or perlight and possibly a forest product compost with fertilizers mixed in. Or are you making your own mix?

I suspect if one has to buy components, including compost, it is hard to make a bio active ecology of soil that can feed plants well, hence the need for adding fertilizers.

Just for clarity of where I stand in all this..... My beds are filled with my compost that was originally tilled into my garden soil. Since then I have added more compost and sand over the years and a bit of bone meal etc.

I am curious how many of the long time SFGers here use some sort of fertilizer amendments in their beds? That would include chickety doo etc anything with a listed NPK if bought or similar if home grown like compost teas. Maybe that is another thread.



Sorry for the late response. Work had me traveling the last few days. So in response to the question regarding the mix that I'm using. After I harvested my potatoes, which by the way delivered a disappointing yield I reused that MM since I already spent the money and added this new product I found called Sweet Peet. I know, it has "peet" in the name and considering my going on about peet in the first post you're probably wondering....

Any-who, the name is actually a little misleading as it more than just peet. Look here:

http://www.sweetpeet.com/

I added one bag which is about 3 cubic feet to the MM and commenced sowing. I sowed five squares each of pole beans, bush beans and carrots on Saturday the 23rd. On Monday the 25th the pole and bush beans sprouted and as of this morning are about an inch or two high with at least one pair of leaves with some having more than one pair.

It's still too early to draw an conclusions but so far things are off to a good start. What I am interested to see is if I have the same developmental problems that I'm currently experiencing with the rest of my squares, i.e. things seem to be not dieing but not growing either.

Cheers...

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Post  southern gardener 6/28/2012, 11:50 am

Ty for the video link. I watched it. It sounds like the base of it is primarily horse stall manure/shavings? I'm curious as to how well things grow with it? Please do keep us updated! I'd LOVE to have a truckload to mulch our property, it's sure nice looking!
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Post  BrotherNorm 6/28/2012, 12:35 pm

southern gardener wrote:Ty for the video link. I watched it. It sounds like the base of it is primarily horse stall manure/shavings? I'm curious as to how well things grow with it? Please do keep us updated! I'd LOVE to have a truckload to mulch our property, it's sure nice looking!

Will do. So you know the stuff isn't real cheap. It cost about $8.00 for a 40 pound bag.
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Post  westx 6/28/2012, 9:08 pm

Mels best idea was in his first book and is the reason I still follow that method and have been since the book came out. I do use a Square Foot Garden premix made in Austin Tx in my beds mixed with a vegie garden soil mix by a large landscape supply company. The premix I use has coir instead of peat because peat has antimicrobial tendencies so not only does it not add anything to the mix it actually takes away from it IMHO. I add my own compost the beds after they are cleaned out and add some organic food to it also. While plants are growing I spray them with a liquid compound once every 2-3 weeks. Besides bugs getting to some of my plants when I am not pay attention to what is going on I have had very good luck with my program. Hate to hear the other Mels mix is have the quality problems it is having.
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Post  southern gardener 7/12/2012, 5:59 pm

UPDATE! I just received an email from Rick at GroWell. He wanted to know our address to replace the soil! yahoo!! Now, DH has to unload all the beds, and re-fill, in his "spare" time ...lol. I'm super excited!! bounce bounce
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Post  plantoid 7/12/2012, 6:14 pm

Norm ,
The Sweet Peet vid clip & advertizing on the home page shows it as a soil conditioner ...I'm not surprised for the stabled horses on shavings is a very high wood content and will take a couple of years to decay into anything useful ..

On the home page it shows it to be a mulch that will kill / smother weeds or in other word not support growth.
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