Roses, bulbs--crocus, hyacinth, tulips, etc.

Are roses or spring flowering bulbs that are winter hardy (crocus, hyacinth, daffodils, tulips) in any way harmful to vegetable plants? Could they transfer something poisonous to my vegetable plants? I have some roses and bulbs in front of my porch--probably about 18 feet long. I'd like to extend the width out another foot to 2 feet instead of 1 so that I can have a SFG in the entire 18 foot length in front of the roses. In between the roses I will have either a 1 foot or 2 foot of SFG depending on how much room is between each rose bush. So, in summary, the SFG will be 1x18 with some parts being 2x1 or 2x2. Will this work? Any other suggestions? The front of this porch has 3 pillars. I want to get some decorative wire posts (look like old time shepherd staffs) and hang a pot that's either 1x1 or 1x2 on each. Any suggestions? I know this may sound like a strange way to SFG and a lot more hassle than a 4x4 but I have a very intrusive HOA. There are 18 lots around a private circular road that has a gated entry. (Oddly enough, I was looking for a pickyourown of corn and a note came up on the website about the abundance of wild blackberries just north of Slide Rock which is where my house is.) The 52 pages of HOA rules boils down to the Board being able to 'at their sole discretion' and 'in their opinion' determine anything ('buildings, roads, roadways, parking areas, lighting fixtures, fences, walls, sprinkler systems, signs, plantings, planted trees and shrubs and all other structures or landscaping of every type and kind located on the property') and also 'visible from a neighboring property with respect to any object that such object is or would be visible to a person six feet tall standing on any part of such neighboring property at an elevation no greater than the elevation of the object being viewed' can deem any of those as 'not suitable or desirable for aesthetic or other reasons' . 'No building, fence, wall or other structure shall be commenced, erected, maintained, improved, altered, made or done without written approval.' It also says that they can change any of this and charge the property owner for it with interest and any legal fees involved--even putting a lien on the property that could then be sold (and anyone on the Board or any other lot owner could bid on). The shortest explainable example of this is that 2 years ago they told me that I needed to 'replace yard sprinklers that are cracked under the sidewalk, etc since the repair would be cost prohibitive' but the quote for replacing it would be $4,300. There is only 1 place that it could be 'cracked under the sidewalk' because there is a Sycamore tree root there and 'etc' was not elaborated upon. There's a lot more--but basically all this is ignored and houses and walls have been built that don't comply and there has been no enforcement. There also hasn't been enough money in the HOA budget to do this, but one house a few years ago and then another house 3 months ago have been purchased by the same multi-millionaire associated with a gum/candy company who could front the HOA any amount. My house is the oldest one there and I think it is probably on the smallest lot and smallest in square footage. It is also the only one that is visible all 360 degrees around. I want to slip in under the radar to just shuffle around with what I already have there--and maybe the marigolds and nasturtiums will camouflage the veggies. The HOA also has the ability to determine and change any of the monthly assessments for each individual lot. I'm just a single mom who wants to feed her family and whose credit rating has been trashed since my divorce so I can't qualify for any heloc even though my mortgage is paid in full (another long story involving gutting my retirement account with IRS penalties and taxes). So roses and bulbs, layout in front of porch, hanging baskets--what do you think?

https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t9418-what-i-saw-at-the-garden-center-yesterday

Redbor kale and ruby red swiss chard were used in this garden center's winter landscaping. The kale is deeply ruffled and also comes in a green - winterbor. Alternate patches of red and green lettuce for a checkerboard look. Peas make pretty blossoms and so do scarlet runner beans. Ornamental cabbage and kale may look pretty, but they are also edible. Nasturtium leaves and blossoms make an interesting addition to a salad.

https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t10191-early-spring-veggie-hanging-basket

Eggplant and okra have flowers that look like hibiscus. Choose the purple okra and call it an ornamental. Still good to eat. Rose petals are edible - I used to candy them, and the rose hip fruit makes good jelly and tea. Onions and radish can hide under the roses. Carrot tops are very lacy and delicate looking.

Just watch that the garden doesn't start looking raggedy as you harvest. That will call forth the HOA police for sure. Look at Josh's list of black veggies that he wants to grow this year. You are not growing a vegetable garden, you are growing ornamentals that can also be eaten.

Bulb are poisonous to eat, but maybe somebody else can tell you if they will tranfer "stuff" to your veggie plants. I don't think so, but I don't know for sure.

Kay

Laurie Lou wrote:Are roses or spring flowering bulbs that are winter hardy (crocus, hyacinth, daffodils, tulips) in any way harmful to vegetable plants? Could they transfer something poisonous to my vegetable plants? I have some roses and bulbs in front of my porch--probably about 18 feet long. I'd like to extend the width out another foot to 2 feet instead of 1 so that I can have a SFG in the entire 18 foot length in front of the roses. In between the roses I will have either a 1 foot or 2 foot of SFG depending on how much room is between each rose bush. So, in summary, the SFG will be 1x18 with some parts being 2x1 or 2x2. Will this work? Any other suggestions?

Hello fellow rose lover & HOA dweller!

Roses are a long-term plant. They range from 1.5' ground cover to 9' hybrid teas, to 20' climbers. Some are single stem, some have many buds per stem. They average $20 a bush. They take a lot of room (3' per). Planting season is now in our part of the country.

Garlic is good for roses. If you properly spaced your roses, yes you have some dirt between BUT...roses have deep issues. They send their roots down and they send them out if they can't get what they want down. If you space them too close the roots will bind, and the plants will be diseased. They need lots of air. You'll need good gloves and pruners and will learn how to care for them.

Between my roses I plant Alstromeria, because I love them. I pick the pants in colors to compliment the roses. And they self seed, which is nice. We have 7 plants on their way, and DD wants to put ground cover roses in between them.

Laurie Lou wrote:The front of this porch has 3 pillars. I want to get some decorative wire posts (look like old time shepherd staffs) and hang a pot that's either 1x1 or 1x2 on each. Any suggestions? I know this may sound like a strange way to SFG and a lot more hassle than a 4x4 but....

Sounds lovely. Will the roses be on YOUR property or on HOA Communal property? Makes a world of difference.

My long stretch of roses is on communal property. Another reason I plant Alstros and not garlic, as we are not allowed to plant fruits/veggies on common ground.

Laurie Lou wrote:I have a very intrusive HOA. There are 18 lots around a private circular road that has a gated entry. (Oddly enough, I was looking for a pickyourown of corn and a note came up on the website about the abundance of wild blackberries just north of Slide Rock which is where my house is.) The 52 pages of HOA rules boils down to the Board being able to 'at their sole discretion' and 'in their opinion' determine anything ('buildings, roads, roadways, parking areas, lighting fixtures, fences, walls, sprinkler systems, signs, plantings, planted trees and shrubs and all other structures or landscaping of every type and kind located on the property') and also 'visible from a neighboring property with respect to any object that such object is or would be visible to a person six feet tall standing on any part of such neighboring property at an elevation no greater than the elevation of the object being viewed' can deem any of those as 'not suitable or desirable for aesthetic or other reasons'. 'No building, fence, wall or other structure shall be commenced, erected, maintained, improved, altered, made or done without written approval.' It also says that they can change any of this and charge the property owner for it with interest and any legal fees involved--even putting a lien on the property that could then be sold (and anyone on the Board or any other lot owner could bid on).

They aren't intrusive, they are protecting you and all the other homeowners. Everything outside your airspace of your home is co-owned by everyone else. The monthly fee for upkeep offsets you having to have many times that in reserves to to pay for repairs.

If what you want to do is on communal property, you'll have to get permission. Write up a brief summary, attend a board meeting, and ask. If you are changing any structure that could allow some damage to happen, you'll be solely responsible if the damage does happen. (We wanted to drill into the wall on our patio to attach a retractable shade screen. That could allow termites in, and if our unit (or our neighbors) became infested, we had to agree we would be responsible for the repairs.) They like things temporary (which SFG boxes are), and they have to consider what they will do if other owners want to join you. You have to ask!

Laurie Lou wrote:The shortest explainable example of this is that 2 years ago they told me that I needed to 'replace yard sprinklers that are cracked under the sidewalk, etc since the repair would be cost prohibitive' but the quote for replacing it would be $4,300. There is only 1 place that it could be 'cracked under the sidewalk' because there is a Sycamore tree root there and 'etc' was not elaborated upon. There's a lot more--but basically all this is ignored and houses and walls have been built that don't comply and there has been no enforcement. There also hasn't been enough money in the HOA budget to do this, but one house a few years ago and then another house 3 months ago have been purchased by the same multi-millionaire associated with a gum/candy company who could front the HOA any amount. My house is the oldest one there and I think it is probably on the smallest lot and smallest in square footage. It is also the only one that is visible all 360 degrees around. I want to slip in under the radar to just shuffle around with what I already have there--and maybe the marigolds and nasturtiums will camouflage the veggies.

If the sidewalk is on common grounds, it should be the responsibility of the HOA. If the HOA doesn't have enough reserves, they need to raise the monthly fee. It matters not that a successful businessman owns multiple properties in your complex. As a non-profit corporation, you don't want them borrowing funds to exist, because they are making YOU responsible for the payback...you own the HOA!

No, flowers will probably bring attention and once you scale it out you'll realize just how big plants can get.

Laurie Lou wrote:The HOA also has the ability to determine and change any of the monthly assessments for each individual lot. I'm just a single mom who wants to feed her family and whose credit rating has been trashed since my divorce so I can't qualify for any heloc even though my mortgage is paid in full (another long story involving gutting my retirement account with IRS penalties and taxes). So roses and bulbs, layout in front of porch, hanging baskets--what do you think?

The best argument to them will probably be "it's temporary and can be moved." You'll have to ask.

"Everything outside your airspace of your home is co-owned by everyone else." ( I haven't figured out how to do that blue thing yet.)

There in is the rub: this is not common ground, it is my airspace--it is my lot--my home--my yard--my porch . . . the $4,000+ was to replace my entire sprinkler system in my yard. All of the restrictions in my first post are about personal property owned privately--not communal property--the Board has total discretion to enforce whatever they choose--well, except within my home their jurisdiction is limited to assuring that my toilets only use 1 gallon per flush; my garage is used only for cars and storage and is not altered for any recreational use or living space; that the number and types of any pets are deemed reasonable at the Board's sole discretion; that the square footage of my home is more than 2800 (amended now to 2400 sq ft); and, finally, that no gainful occupation, profession, trade or other nonresidential use takes place.

{And my concern about the moneyed owner of 2 lots is that the HOA could indeed accept funds. Each lot has one vote each. The dear treasurer (who I would guess has had that position for 30+ years and is now over 80) is wanting to pass the torch. (He is still the longtime volunteer accountant for his church, too.) He and his wife are among the nicest people I have ever known. I am concerned about what influences a different personality or a different view of finances might bring.}

Back to the sprinklers: another irony of this needed $4000+ sprinkler replacement in my yard is that the irrigation water comes through the original pioneer-built trench designed to move irrigation water directly from Oak Creek. The communal 'we' water the communal organic apple orchard (also planted by said pioneer) and the hired orchard keeper waters most of the other common areas with a rotating placement of hose fed sprinklers--plus, every lot has a spigot in our yards for this creek water, too, so we can water with it rather than tap water (for which we share a treatment system with Junipine Resort that is across the creek and we don't want our percentage of consumption to exceed our percentage of expenses.)

I promise I will let this topic go after I have this last vent unless you beg me for more HOA stories (but I actually don't have any more, so you would be out of luck).

Another example of intrusion: there was a split rail fence around the yard when we bought the house that I thought was really charming in a very 'we are in the country, not in the city' kind of way. It wasn't sealed, so it looked like a typical weathered split rail fence. Some of the fence posts had worked their way loose. They were in dirt and not concrete. They needed to be fixed and my son's Boy Scout troop was going to set them for me. Image my surprise when I came up to my home and a quarter of my fence had been taken down. When I called on the phone (which we have only done twice in roughly 15 years), the Board President said he would find out for me. (The Board President prefers the convenience and expediency of telephone contact, I prefer email since I like to have a written record.) He sent me an email saying that the neighbor (yep, its the same neighbor who actually lives at the opposite end of the neighborhood on the lot that is as far away from me as it could possibly be) who took my fence down did it for safety reasons and had only picked up the parts that were in the roadway after the unusually strong winds we had had. My email reply that it must have been a really strong wind to not only blow off those two sets of rails (which were loose), but to also dig up all the posts and rails in my yard along the driveway--yes, in my yard along my driveway--my personal property that does not touch any common areas or any other lot (said posts were not loose because they but up to the concrete driveway, are in even ground not on an incline, and don't get any water runoff). Oddly, even the fence post holes themselves were still perfectly intact without any uprooted dirt or other indications of having been ripped out by heavy winds. I would have expected if wind had blown the fence over, the post hole soil would have been disturbed. How strong of a wind speed is needed to uproot fence posts? I don't know either but it must have blown in an up-sweep directly through my yard because everyone else's fences, lawn furniture, birdhouses, hanging planters . . . were fine.

Another email from the Board President told me a neighbor said that my son had moved a fallen limb from our yard onto my neighbor's empty lot and we needed to move it. Now, my son is a gymnast and is very, very strong, so this was plausible. My son told me he had moved a few branches out of the driveway and set them along the side of our driveway (which I think IS on the neighbor's lot since that is the edge of our driveway and I don't know if my lot has any inches past the edge of our driveway because where the property line is hasn't ever come up--this other neighbor has owned his lot probably 10 years or so, and hasn't started any building preparations, and isn't bothered by the branches--or by the fact that my younger kids pretended to 'cook' acorns and leaves 'for forest fairies' on the two big sandstone rocks by my driveway that, again, are probably on his lot). My son continued his reply to me with OF COURSE (accompanied by that special teenage look that implies senility is just around the bend for his mother), he hadn't and wouldn't ever move anything onto somebody else's yard (lot). To avoid 'he said she said' with the President and neighbor, I emailed that we would move the branch next time we came up. This Sycamore 'branch' turned out to be 17 feet long with an 8 inch diameter. We could barely drag it after even cutting it into 4 pieces--which itself was quite the endeavor with a bow saw. Soooo, I felt compelled to look up how to calculate the weight specifically of a sycamore 'branch' using the length and diameter--it was over 700 pounds. Logic does not apply to how my son could possibly have moved this 'branch'.

Same neighbor of the fence removal--who knows I am not a morning person and still comes over early and actually hollers in my open bedroom window if I don't come to the door--told me that I had to 'be there' when I had friends renting the historic homestead. (This stipulation came about because this same neighbor had let hired workers stay in the homestead who accidentally burned down part of said historic homestead that is located on communal property.) Boils down to this neighbor had checked to see if I was at home the night before--and I wasn't. I had gone to Flagstaff to see a late movie (or maybe 2) without every one else who had other plans, so I got back around 1 am or so. He's on my porch, chewing me out and swearing at me about how I need to 'be there' when I have reserved the homestead (for $50 a night) for guests. I asked him what constitutes 'being there' and I think he said something close to 'a reasonable time.' So, what is a reasonable time? Do I have a 7pm curfew or is it 10pm? Even in high school I was allowed a midnight curfew. (I would have thought that he would be losing steam by then seeing the utter ridiculousness of this conversation since he is of 'retirement age' and is lecturing a 46 year old adult.) I asked, what if some of us want to do one thing and others want to do something different? Do I need to force everyone to go shopping in downtown Sedona if I am going with that group--since technically I wouldn't 'be there' --would the other friends be allowed to remain behind or would I have to remain behind, too, so I would 'be there'. My guests cowered listening in the house since only the screen door was closed--they haven't wanted to come back since then--and I wanted the ground to open up and swallow me because I was so embarrassed about the way this neighbor treated me. He then switched topics to rant about how he had to clean up my garbage when racoons had gotten in my garbage can. I knew this had happened before, but I couldn't remember when--until he brought up that there were diapers in it--and my daughter hadn't worn diapers for 7 years--7 years.

I'll skip the rest of my stories because I'm sure you get the gist.

The only occurrence on communal property was that, I assume, the diapers were on the road since the can had been set out for garbage collection. 'They' wanted me to dig up my daughter's dead puppy--buried 3 feet under with rocks on top (the rocks gave it away) since 'my yard is not a pet cemetery and the grave would attract wild animals.' Oh, the mansion across the road actually has a koi pond in front. We have a wide assortment of pets buried over the years in our yard/flowerbeds--birds, rats, rabbit, guinea pig, cats--and no animal has ever bothered these graves. A few years ago skunks were an issue throughout Sedona--but even they don't dig deeper than a foot for a den and prefer use one that was already made instead of digging a new one themselves. There haven't been any others of nuisance. There are wild animals around, of course, since we are in a forested area with a creek that Fish & Game stocks with trout on one side and government-owned forest preserves on the other three borders.

I am hoping that all of this will end this month when we move up there permanently and full-time. Since I'm there I should be able to keep on top of things without having to play the telephone game.

Our annual HOA meeting is in May. I have not been up for the last 3 years--graduation ceremonies, dance recitals and all that. I asked if we could set future meetings either the weekend before or the weekend after since it is scheduled when all these other end of the year always conflict. No go.

Ava (I don't know if that's your real name or not, but your online name is sure cute--mine isn't Laurie Lou, either, but it's what one of my favorite uncles always called me just to tease me), you shine through as a sweet person who expects the best intentions from everyone. Could you come as my moral support at the meeting? May in Sedona is an awesome vacation spot. Besides, my roses may be getting too old to do well--but I don't know much about growing roses . . .

WOW!!!! You have just reinforced my vow to never have a home in a HOA community. I take back what I said above. You will never be able to satisfy the existing HOA police. The only soluton is to revamp the board and see if you can get the community together to get some sanity into the bylaws. And good luck on that.

Kay

walshevak wrote:WOW!!!! You have just reinforced my vow to never have a home in a HOA community. I take back what I said above. You will never be able to satisfy the existing HOA police. The only soluton is to revamp the board and see if you can get the community together to get some sanity into the bylaws. And good luck on that.

Kay

I really like Kay's advice about edible ornamental plants! Yup it's time to get on the Board. The meeting is in May? you can start campaigning soon and get some votes or proxies... (I always tried to gather as many proxies as I could before an annual meeting), and don't be afraid to stand up and ask questions in the meeting, this is where the neighbors can get to know the board.Good luck!

Laurie Lou wrote:
Ava (I don't know if that's your real name or not, but your online name is sure cute--mine isn't Laurie Lou, either, but it's what one of my favorite uncles always called me just to tease me), you shine through as a sweet person who expects the best intentions from everyone. Could you come as my moral support at the meeting? May in Sedona is an awesome vacation spot. Besides, my roses may be getting too old to do well--but I don't know much about growing roses . . .

Thanks Laurie Lou...sure...get me there and I'll help! The meeting, your garden...I have a association meeting in May too. When is yours?

Associations have their benefits...you don't have to have thousands in savings in case something happens and needs to be fixed! Drawbacks are...you have to be neighborly! And that's a art!

My DH prefers to give the evil stare to those who do the least little thing against me. Funny, but not helpful! I just let it go and roll with it. We all have moods and stress that happens in our lives, then we come home and some little straw breaks the camel's back, and the neighbor (or board member) gets the brunt of the day.

Even if you think you are moving next year, get on the board. Call the manager and ask to be added to the ballot (self-nomiinated). Then chat up your neighbors, asking for their vote. If you don't get elected, attend the meetings. Only a few things (like liens) are private session. They'll get to know you, and you them and things will go much smoother.

A lot of a meeting is very boring...review bank accounts, insurance needs, upcoming maintenance, etc. The juice is in the correspondence - who called regarding what, action taken, etc.

Here...something to brighten your day...first full grown roses from my garden this year (cut last Friday). The purple are Fragrant Memory, the tall pink Barbara Bush and the lightest pink is Secret. There's a Fortune Teller hiding inside. Smells great but only looks good one day!


Ava

This thread has really caused me to smile ..



Housing associations with old farts well past their sell by date still trying to bully and push people around .

Yes we have them in the UK too , an we also have the Bof's ( aka Boring old farts ) . My anally impacted neighbours father reckoned I should grow an evergreen screen around my 1300 litre plastic double skinned heating oil tank that is set at the front of the bungalow as it would have cost me an extra £1200 plus tax @ 17.5 % to have it in the back garden .

He was rather taken aback when i invited him to foot the bill and pay my mortgage & then & only then might I consider doing it . He hasn't talked to me since .... silence is golden .. Golden



There are no codicils or indications in the mortgage or deeds to the property about vehicles or fences so by English law the fences are shared .. I replaced one rotten shared fences and ask for half the £800 cost , that shut his mouthy daughter up good & propper .

Same with our caravan .. I parked it down the side of the property at the rear of the bungalow .. she comes out squalking " Your F'in not going to park that there ! " " Oh yes I am " ,says I .



re the roses there are thornless varieties of climbing roses and also standard and floribunda roses .. They make great fun training them to run along wires set on posts .. same with various vines that produce ...grapes

plantoid wrote:This thread has really caused me to smile ..

Housing associations with old farts well past their sell by date still trying to bully and push people around.

Plantoid...I assume we're pond jumping the Queen's English...what does THAT mean(as she recovers spewing her drink on the keyboard).

plantoid wrote:Yes we have them in the UK too , an we also have the Bof's (aka Boring old farts). My anally impacted neighbours father reckoned I should grow an evergreen screen around my 1300 litre plastic double skinned heating oil tank that is set at the front of the bungalow as it would have cost me an extra £1200 plus tax @ 17.5 % to have it in the back garden .

He was rather taken aback when i invited him to foot the bill and pay my mortgage & then & only then might I consider doing it . He hasn't talked to me since .... silence is golden .. Golden

Good for you!!!

plantoid wrote:There are no codicils or indications in the mortgage or deeds to the property about vehicles or fences so by English law the fences are shared .. I replaced one rotten shared fences and ask for half the £800 cost , that shut his mouthy daughter up good & propper .

Same with our caravan .. I parked it down the side of the property at the rear of the bungalow .. she comes out squalking " Your F'in not going to park that there ! " " Oh yes I am " ,says I.

Ah yes...know where the loopholes are!

plantoid wrote:re the roses there are thornless varieties of climbing roses and also standard and floribunda roses .. They make great fun training them to run along wires set on posts .. same with various vines that produce ...grapes

And roses with thorns, or even better, bouganvilla with NASTY thorns, make great hedges!

Plant, I've never laughed so hard on this forum. Thank you!