1,000 worms on their way....

Yesterday I took several buckets of finished compost out the bottom access of one of my daleks , it's been sub minus 10 o C here on several occasions and we had sub zero temps for nearly three weeks continously .

A month of so ago when I checked the state of the compost, it was frozen rock solid in the top of the bin so I guess the worms got deep frozen throughout the bin so would have any cocoons/eggs

On taking the compost out there was a couple of dozen muck worms alive and wriggling like mad in each double handful . In the lid in droplets of water there are zillions of cocoons so it kind of knocks on the head that frosts kill all worms close to the surface .

My take is that most worms in the geographical areas that suffer frost have evolved to have some sort of antifreeze in them like most marine worms have that stops them getting damaged from frozen cells splitting , I think it is the same with the eggs and cocoons.

That is wonderful to know as I have wood and insulation sitting here ready to go. I plan to move some worms to an outdoor bin this year. Should be interesting since Ohio can be either extremely hot or cold..

We may be doing newbies a disservice by ignoring the experts.
When authors such as Mary Applehof "Worms Eat My Garbage",
Clive A Edwards PHD "Vermiculture Technology: Earthworms. Organic Wastes, and Environmental Management" say that Eisena fetida will die if they are frozen I listen. If you don't believe them put some worms in your freezer and see what they look like 24 hours later.
When the worms in my compost pile live thru the winter I assume they did not freeze.

Boz wrote:
When the worms in my compost pile live thru the winter I assume they did not freeze.

This is the primary reason I have my compost pile on the bare earth, the worms can go down before the pile freezes and come up again when the pile thaws.

camprn wrote:

Boz wrote:
When the worms in my compost pile live thru the winter I assume they did not freeze.

This is the primary reason I have my compost pile on the bare earth, the worms can go down before the pile freezes and come up again when the pile thaws.

I feel if the compost pile is large enough it will not freeze in the middle, therefore the worms can travel down there and wait it out until the rest of the pile thaws.
If the pile freezes completely, then I would assume the worms would not survive.

Thank you camprn and Kelejan - the point i wanted to make is we must provide enough mass to keep the worms from freezing. I have given worms to people that ignored that fact and have come back in the Spring looking for more worms.

You made an excellent point Boz regarding mass. Everyone else did too. In a large outdoor wooden bin for example a large mass allows worms to move to a more hospitable area when the edges freeze. I find it fascinating how youngsters born into undesirable conditions survive when adults don't. When it comes to frozen adult worms that successfully defrost I wonder what specifics allow their survival. Does the length of time in a frozen state solely determine survival or the age and health of the worm, or other factors not yet known. Over the past year I learned to credit them for surviving my newbie learning curve, while producing castings in temperatures of high mid 70's or low 60's while the herd has grown from one bin to three.

I have spent the last few days doing the first turning of my compost pile that consisted of about 70 bags of leaves interspersed with what grass, coffee grounds, greens etc. etc. that I had accumulated before winter and in which I had inserted two large worm tubes made from one-inch square plastic mesh.
My, but it was hard work. Everything had compacted and the worm tubes had been squashed flat, but, I have thousands of worms make it through the winter.

One result is that last night I had a nightmare of cascades of worms falling on me and I could not keep up with giving them away as fast as I could. I think those images came from looking at YouTube videos of worms bursting out of a compost box, but that was months ago. Also perhaps seeing a video of ground beef coming out of a grinder. In my dream the worms were coming out of hanging light fixtures, faucets and similar openings. I was happy to wake up.

So your plan worked out very well, congratulations on your thousands of worms.

But now you are dreaming of worms Kelejan? Yes it's good to wake up from those images, lol. After harvesting a couple gallons of vermicompost the other day I ended up having a lovely spaghetti supper the following day. Still wasn't enough time to get worm thoughts out of my head while eating supposedly a nice meal.

I don't know if you purposely plan ahead and age new bedding before harvesting bins? I don't consistantly plan ahead. Worms seem to do fine with freshly soaked bedding wrung out then add back several big handfuls of "familiar" vermicompost back into the bin right on top of the fresh new bedding. Feed them at the same time and it seems to work. They are gathered up in a big group and feasting by the next day.

LLM, I feel that adding the "familiar" vermicompost is the key to the worms' transition.

kelejan
I have had some very weird dreams after long days working with the worms....
But then again nights after I have been pulling quack grass all day I dream of that too.....
Sounds like lots of worms

I just started a new bin a few days ago using shredded egg cartons as bedding - they seem perfect, very easy to tear and absorbed water easily for soaking. I have a friend with a bakery so she gave me a ton of them.

Anyway, I use Rubbermaid totes with a tote on the bottom to catch all the leachate. I hadn't emptied the bottom in a while so there was a good 1/2" of leachate, soggy castings, and worms in it. I just emptied that into the new bin to populate it and put the new bin on top of the old bin (full of about 6" of castings) so those occupants can move up into the new bin. I never thought of using the yucky bottom stuff to kick-start the bedding in a new bin!

Now to get them all to migrate to the new bedding - that's the hard part.

I am reading a book about composting and in the section on vermicomposting it says rather than trying to get the worms to migrate from one bin to another, you can push the castings/worms to one side of the bin and fill the other side with fresh bedding and food. The worms will migrate much more easily. I'm thinking about how I might be able to use this method to move the worms from one bin to the other... maybe make a mini-bin in the old one and periodically dump the transients into the new bin?

I really think Rooster should delete this thread. It is a conspiracy by llamamama to drag us into vermicomposting. The problem is that it is really starting to wear down my resistance and I too am dreaming about worms anymore. Next thing we know she will be offering to ship us some of her worms as they multiply to continue her evil temptations.

I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming!

Coelli
Egg cartons are great! I didn't think of checking with a bakery for cartons..or all the other places that would use them too, thanks!

There's so many ways to get the job done.
For me, the lazier the method, the better. My three plastic bins have no drainage leachate. Been keeping conditions on the dry side I suppose and spray mist with a bottle when it looks necessary. I put very large rectangular holes in the lid covered with panty hose and attached in place with duct tape. And additional aeration hole on 4 sides of the bin. Keep fresh dry shredded paper filled to the top of the bin. If you are looking to keep things dry and not bother with leachate, those steps work very well.

I thought about a mini holding bin as you described, its another step I'd rather avoid. As it is I put several banana peels on top of the the freshly harvested vermicompost stored in buckets. Then catch the little guys I missed and return them to their buddies in the plastic bin. Overall, I like to harvest a bin and return worms to the same bin with new bedding and a few handfuls of vermicompost. I really like the simplicity of pushing everything to one side as you described, haven't tried it yet. Can't get past my silly imagination wondering how many would get sacrificed in the smooshing process

bnoles wrote:I really think Rooster should delete this thread. It is a conspiracy by llamamama to drag us into vermicomposting. The problem is that it is really starting to wear down my resistance and I too am dreaming about worms anymore. Next thing we know she will be offering to ship us some of her worms as they multiply to continue her evil temptations.

I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming! I must resist worm farming!

OMG! BOB!
Your first line really got me nervous at first and you scared me! LoL!
But now I see you are a closet worm owner haaah, you know you gotta try it!!!

Im not having worm dreams .....thank goodness......

I do however get excited giving them new foods.....kinda like when my children were little ....giving them taste of foods....and watching their reactions.....

so far our worms looooove mushroom compost ....they are ALL over it!
first time opening the lid and seeing all those worms on top of the mushroom compost...was kinda of creepy!

happy worm farming
rose

Reminds me I had a container of brownish-spoiled fresh mushrooms, froze them for the worms and now they go totally bonkers over the stuff. It is a little creepy when they are all squirmed up in a mass feeding frenzy.

Side Note: I think BNoles needs to have this experience asap.

haha... just messin' with ya LM, you are always a great sport.

To be honest though, you really are breaking my resistance down and stirring my interest in yet another gardening/composting venture. Man do I love playing in the dirt and now maybe even the "yuck"

One thing I have found they LOVE are avocados. I have a friend who bought too many and they went bad in her fridge so gave me several of them.
It just seems like ALL of the worms want to be under the avocado, it is so cute, you look under the avocado and just mass worms underneath.
I guess its just the place to be for wormies

At least the avocado sounds delicious. It's kind of yucky when I moisten/soften up llama manure 'beans' and they crazy-squirm all over that stuff. Your worms get classy stuff and at times mine get crap

all I got is moose crap.... and they don't seem to like it as much as avocado.. I wonder if asking the local grocer what they do with the avocados that go bad

Yes, Do ask!
I've become a big fan of asking for compost items either for the worms or the backyard compost pile. The results have been quite rewarding.

thank you camprn
That is such a great article. I did not know that they could survive submerged. I have seen where they collect where I have plastic down, and I feel badly that they ended up in the areas where the water collects, but they do not appear to be moving

Eisenia fetida, red worms can survive indefinitely in aerated water. They dye when the water loses its oxygen. Some people are using them in their aqua phonics systems.