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Post  kimbertangleknot on 6/22/2010, 7:44 pm

I'm wanting to do some crops in the fall that I can keep in the ground over winter. I've read that onions, garlic, and either turnips or parsnips (or both) can be left in the ground. Now I've looked online and have gotten conflicting information as to do it or not do it, as well as the type of onion to do it with (short, long, mid - day). As for the garlic, everything I've read is that is does better over the winter for the southern peeps of the U.S. (Zone 7 I'm in, and either 7a/b really close to that line). I've not looked up the parsnips or turnips in full detail but I would really like to know what I can do and how to do it.

I've never planted any fall/winter crops at all so this is completely new to me in this aspect, but I'm okay with trial and error. I just need a shove in the right direction to get me started with at least a toe in the door. Also, does anyone have a particular breed of broccoli, cabbage, brussels sprouts, carrot, radish, and uh... any other fall crop that they have had success with in the SFG? I have a total of 18 spaces that I use over the fall/winter and I want to make sure I try what I can Very Happy
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Post  Blackrose on 6/23/2010, 7:48 am

This is an excellent question. I've been wondering the same thing myself. It only makes sense to try and get as much use out of the SFG as possible and use it year round.

I'm sure someone on this forum will have some ideas!

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Post  hookilau on 6/23/2010, 11:20 am

[?] Onions & Garlic & Other Veggies 61949 I was wondering the same thing yesterday. Ever since I read last week or so that now is the time to start seeds for Fall/Winter garden my head's been ll a-buzz. [?] Onions & Garlic & Other Veggies Icon_study

I bought seeds a few weeks ago planning to grow them in my first year veggie garden, not realizing that veggies were grown by the season. Don't you know every seed pack I bought (purchased according to our tastes and what I know we'll definitely use) was for fall or winter sowing?!! [?] Onions & Garlic & Other Veggies Suspect

Anyhow...I did a search and thought maybe this link might help....it pertains only to broccoli, but, hey, it's a start [?] Onions & Garlic & Other Veggies Icon_cat http://growingtaste.com/vegetables/broccoli.shtml
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[?] Onions & Garlic & Other Veggies Empty winter onions

Post  ander217 on 6/23/2010, 12:47 pm

I think it sometimes depends on which growing zone you are in. In warmer areas onion seed can be sown in late fall for a spring crop, but I'm not sure about the colder parts of the country.

I'm in zone 6 and I plant potato onions and shallots (multiplier onions) here in November. They winter over and begin growing in spring as soon as conditions are right for them. Regular onions sets might do the same thing, except I've never been able to find them around here in the fall.

I also have winter onions (Egyptian Walking Onions) which grow in my garden year-round. They come up in early spring when I pull some for green onions. In late spring they send up stalks which form clusters of bulbils on top - bulbils look like onion sets and the larger ones can be peeled and used as pearl onions. The bulbils sometimes grow green sprouts which send up additional bulbil stalks. Eventually the weight pulls the whole stalk down and the bulbils take root in a different spot, (hence the term "walking") or else they just fall off of the plant and root around the base of the mother plant. So they aren't really perennials, but they reset themselves annually.
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Post  pattipan on 6/23/2010, 1:00 pm

I just got Territorial Seed's Fall catalog yesterday. They have quite a few overwintering seeds and roots crops and bulbs (onions, shallots, etc). It might give you an idea of what is possible.

http://www.territorialseed.com/prod_detail_list/overwintering_seed

They even have a few overwintering carrots I thought I might try. I bought my shallots from them last fall and planted them in October. A 1 lb. bag of shallots was enough for an 8 ft row, plus a few left over, which we ate. I am going to get back six times+ what I planted. The tops are just beginning to die off now, so soon it will be harvest time!

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Post  kimbertangleknot on 6/24/2010, 5:16 pm

That link to TS company is great. I didn't get a catalog from them this year at all, so they went completely off my radar. I usually use Burpee (mainly because it's a name I know) and Park Seed because they are in SC. I figure if they are collecting their own seeds from the plants, that they might be more acclimated to what I'm growing in weather wise. Hopefully, I'll get off my bum and research how to save my own seeds from plants that are a hit here so I won't have to shell out as much!

I made the decision that from this point on, I'm going to be making smaller orders through out the year for gardening stuff so I'm not making HUGE purchases so early in the year. So this link is a big help as I want to order fall seeds NOW and not wait any longer sunny
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Post  trustinhart on 6/28/2010, 2:18 pm

I just got my TS catalog too, it is WONDERFUL. My other seed catalogs have been arriving to. It's like getting the Sears & Roebuck catalog before Christmas to make your list!!! I'm trying to learn what to do for the fall/winter too. All these suggestons aer wonderful and so helpful. I would love to get some of those Egyptian Onions. My husband is just glad that they are not jewlery catalogs, LOL!!!!
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Post  kimbertangleknot on 6/30/2010, 4:00 pm

Alright, so I was checking out some stuff on Gardener's Supply Company's website, when I looked off to the side and found an onion growing article. Not helpful at all I might add, but then decided to check out their Veggie Articles and looked at the one for garlic (this one is a bit more helpful for onions). While it's for row gardening really, the pictures are super helpful for what to do and have a visual reference as well.
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Post  dixie on 6/30/2010, 4:12 pm

Check with your county agricultural agent - I just called mine to find out when to start seeds for cabbage & other cole crops. I'm in TN, 7 something, I think B. He told me any time between July 1 & July 31. I plan on waiting a couple of weeks.

As for garlic, I should plant in October here. (the local Walmart had some huge purple skinned garlic this week & I bought several bulbs to plant later). I wish there was a specialty grocery somewhere close so I could check out their produce section for things to plant.
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Post  dixie on 6/30/2010, 4:18 pm

[quote="kimbertangleknot"] Hopefully, I'll get off my bum and research how to save my own seeds from plants that are a hit here so I won't have to shell out as much!

Just remember to only save seeds from open pollinated veggies, not hybrids. I always save seeds from my tomatoes. Just put them in a cup of water a couple of days til they ferment & yucky stuff rises to the top, clean seeds are on the bottom. Then I drain them & put on wax paper til dry.

Baker Creek Heirlooms is also a good source. They don't have a specific Fall section, but their shipping is only $3 per order & I just placed another order with them.
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Post  kimbertangleknot on 6/30/2010, 4:21 pm

@dixie wrote:Baker Creek Heirlooms is also a good source. They don't have a specific Fall section, but their shipping is only $3 per order & I just placed another order with them.

*hops on over to check out the $3 shipping*
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Post  ander217 on 6/30/2010, 5:41 pm

I plant turnips and winter radishes in the fall, and some usually survive all winter. I mulch them with rice hulls, and this spring I was still pulling turnips from last fall that started growing green tops again. Kale will also winter over, and tastes better after the frost has nipped it a bit. Parsley is a biennial that will also make it through the winter and usually give me enough leaves before bolting to get me through until new plantings get going.

Winter radishes are different from regular radishes. They are larger and more cold-hardy, and usually taste hotter. (Think daikon.) I prefer China Rose and my cousin grows Round Black Spanish.

Swiss chard will also take some frost, but not a freeze.

The bad thing is that the voles made runs all underneath my turnip bed last fall (this was in the row-garden) and apparently they feasted on the turnips all winter, too. I plan to sow my turnips and winter radishes in boxes this fall which have wire nailed to the bottom.
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Post  camprn on 6/30/2010, 7:52 pm

I planted 10 seed shallots on 4/19 in 2 squares. Yesterday I harvested 57 shallots. YUMMY! I added quite a bit of homemade compost to the 2 squares and planted 10 more seed shallots. I hope my next yield is a bit higher.
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Post  kimbertangleknot on 6/30/2010, 8:19 pm

@kimbertangleknot wrote:
@dixie wrote:Baker Creek Heirlooms is also a good source. They don't have a specific Fall section, but their shipping is only $3 per order & I just placed another order with them.

*hops on over to check out the $3 shipping*

*happily awaits her order* What a Face

@ander217 wrote:The bad thing is that the voles made runs all underneath my turnip bed last fall (this was in the row-garden) and apparently they feasted on the turnips all winter, too. I plan to sow my turnips and winter radishes in boxes this fall which have wire nailed to the bottom.

Luckily my containers have bottoms since they are self-watering. I just have to worry about the bugs. We have birds, but they seem more interested in dive bombing each other and the birdseed we have out, and no deer where we live in our culdesac.

@ander217 wrote:Winter radishes are different from regular radishes. They are larger and more cold-hardy, and usually taste hotter. (Think daikon.) I prefer China Rose and my cousin grows Round Black Spanish.

I actually found a deluxe winter radish mix that I'm going to try out this fall. I just want to email them and find out what kinds they are before I buy them. I'm wanting to make a "chicken stock" bed and parsnips would be a must for me as well as the parsley.

@camprn wrote:I planted 10 seed shallots on 4/19 in 2 squares. Yesterday I harvested 57 shallots. YUMMY! I added quite a bit of homemade compost to the 2 squares and planted 10 more seed shallots. I hope my next yield is a bit higher.

I don't have homemade compost, though I really would like to start one. I would have to use one of those plastic containers though, i can't just have it out in the open. I am really not familiar on how to even start it, but everyone here talks about it, so I'm sure I can find some helpful information to help me. I just ordered two different onions that I'm going to try, so hopefully that will work out.

@dixie wrote:As for garlic, I should plant in October here. (the local Walmart had some huge purple skinned garlic this week & I bought several bulbs to plant later). I wish there was a specialty grocery somewhere close so I could check out their produce section for things to plant.

Are you just buying it from the produce section? If you are, I might start going by some of the farmer's markets we have that surround us and see if anyone has any for sale. We also have a lot of grocery stores around us that I can check out that usually have some fun stuff to eat. That would save me a lot of money from having to buy so much from a seed company, it's not cheap.
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Post  dixie on 6/30/2010, 8:40 pm

re garlic: Yes, I just buy it, separate the cloves & plant. I'm too cheap to buy garlic from the seed houses. I've always had good luck with it. I did ginger once. Just laid it on top of the pot & kept moist. It took nearly the whole season to send up a sprout. Then I forgot about it and frost killed it. It had very pretty foilage.

Did you order from Baker Creek, if so, what did you order? Here's what I ordered recently:
OR106 Chinese Pak Choy
$2.00

(Not Taxable)
1 $2.00

BS101
Long Island Improved Brussels Sprouts
$1.50

(Not Taxable)
1 $1.50

CB110
Perfection Savoy Drumhead Cabbage
$2.00

(Not Taxable)
1 $2.00

CR120
Jaune Obtuse du Doubs Carrot
$2.50

(Not Taxable)
1 $2.50

LK102
Giant Musselburgh Leek
$2.00

(Not Taxable)
1 $2.00

SB103
Rocky Top Lettuce Mix
$3.00

(Not Taxable)
1 $3.00

SB105
Red Wing Lettuce Mix
$3.00

(Not Taxable)
1 $3.00

PP156
Yellow Monster Pepper
$2.50

(Not Taxable)
1 $2.50

SQ159
Honey Boat Delicata Squash
$2.25

(Not Taxable)
1 $2.25

WM127
Orangeglo Watermelon
$2.50

(Not Taxable)
1 $2.50

CR118
Muscade Carrot
$2.50

(Not Taxable)
1 $2.50

HB143
Cilantro, Slo-Bolt
$2.00

(Not Taxable)
1 $2.00

HB180
Dill Elephant
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Post  kimbertangleknot on 6/30/2010, 8:49 pm

I don't remember exactly what I ordered... I didn't get an email yet and I forgot to copy and paste my confirmation page. Bad me.

EDIT: hahaha. I forget that sometimes I forget to check my spam folder if I don't go into my actual mail account. (I get my mail from a mail client and it doesn't scan the spam folder) So HERE is what I got exactly:

BN102 Contender (Buff) Valentine Bush Bean $2.00
BN126 Dragon Tongue Bush Bean $2.75
BN128 Beurre De Rocquencourt Bush Wax Bean $2.75
ON117 Violet De Galmi Onion $2.50
ON114 Jaune Paille Des Vertus Onion $2.50
HB117 Lemon Balm $1.75
HB143 Cilantro, Slo-Bolt $2.00
HB135 Chives Common $1.25
HB165 Dill Thai $1.50
HB147 Sage - Broad Leaf $2.00


Last edited by kimbertangleknot on 6/30/2010, 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : i'm an idiot)
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Post  dixie on 6/30/2010, 8:51 pm

I've always received my orders promptly from them.
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Post  kiwirose on 7/7/2010, 1:50 pm

for overwintering I am planning on planting kale, fava beans, garlic. I am also planning on buying both onion and garlic seeds, but will sow inside around January 1st for and early spring transplant. If I get good crops from the shallots and garlic, then I can take sets off them for a fall planting next year I guess, but I haven't actually grown them personally. I am planning on day neutral or short day onions - specifically superstar (or siera blanca - same thing just renamed), candy and kelsae if I can find it which are rumored to do well in NC.

Garlic I am going for a mix of hardneck (great for garlic scapes) and soft neck - great for long term storage.

Shallots I am winging it - no idea really.

Other fall crops that will last into early winter for me will be all my leafy greens (collards, spinach, arugula, chard, lettuce), beets, cauli, brocoli, cabbage, radish and probably a few other things that I can't remember right now. They will all be done before the height of winter though. October-ish is when the garlic will go in the ground.
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