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Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

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Post  sanderson 11/16/2014, 1:05 pm

audrey.jeanne.roberts wrote:By the way, I just have to say that composting seaweed can be a little unnerving when you live in snake country and you're composting kelp.  I tossed a load over to the next pile and it looked like a snake launched into flight!!!!
What a Face  And not all of our snakes are harmless; there are rattlers!

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Post  camprn 11/16/2014, 1:07 pm

sanderson wrote:
audrey.jeanne.roberts wrote:By the way, I just have to say that composting seaweed can be a little unnerving when you live in snake country and you're composting kelp.  I tossed a load over to the next pile and it looked like a snake launched into flight!!!!
What a Face  And not all of our snakes are harmless; there are rattlers!
which are good at keeping down the vermin. Wink

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Post  plantoid 11/16/2014, 3:00 pm

Two legged without feathers ??
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Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts 11/16/2014, 8:31 pm

plantoid wrote:Two legged without feathers ??
Shocked Laughing
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Post  slimbolen99 11/17/2014, 8:08 am

Question:
I have been unable to turn my piles for over four days; mostly because it's been below freezing for the last week. The piles are both still measuring 130*F-140*F. It's not supposed to get up above freezing until Wednesday or Thursday (another three to four days). 

What do I do if the piles cease producing heat (microbes dead?)?
Should I do anything in the meantime to keep the piles going? 
How do I restart a pile after it "dies"?

Thanks in advance.
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Post  camprn 11/17/2014, 10:17 am

slimbolen99 wrote:Question:
I have been unable to turn my piles for over four days; mostly because it's been below freezing for the last week. The piles are both still measuring 130*F-140*F. It's not supposed to get up above freezing until Wednesday or Thursday (another three to four days). 

What do I do if the piles cease producing heat (microbes dead?)?
Should I do anything in the meantime to keep the piles going? 
How do I restart a pile after it "dies"?

Thanks in advance.
That is a perfect temperature. Turning your piles before they reach a lower temperature, closer to 100, will disrupt the composting process.  Not to worry unless you are in a hurry. YOur piles will not freeze in the next week. Are you in a hurry?

Your pile will is not dead if it stops producing heat. It just means the process is over and done. You will have compost at that point.

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Post  slimbolen99 11/17/2014, 1:52 pm

Hmmm, I was under the impression they needed to be turned every 4 days or so in order to do the 18 day method...regardless of temperature inside and/or out.
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Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts 11/17/2014, 2:14 pm

slimbolen99 wrote:Hmmm, I was under the impression they needed to be turned every 4 days or so in order to do the 18 day method...regardless of temperature inside and/or out.
The Berkeley method follows this schedule:

1 - Build your pile, let it sit 4 days before the first turn.

Turn it every 2 days, 7 times.

During that period your temps could go up to 160 (shouldn't be allowed to go much above that at all)

Pile temps can vary depending on what you put in them.  I've had piles that didn't go over 120 or so and still broke down, it just took a little longer.

With this method you don't wait for things to cool to 100 degrees as with others, you turn it on schedule as much as possible.  If you wait longer in-between, just get back on schedule.  

Sanderson has had piles this summer that only got turned every 3-4 days because of other commitments and all it did was take longer for the process but it will still go much faster than an ordinary pile AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT: you will have more compost than if you did an ordinary pile as less is used up in the process.

My piles only shrink perhaps 15% in size.  That means less nutrients are wasted and more is going into my garden.  For me, that's a very important reason to do the extra work involved (well... that and my waistline, LOL!)
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Post  slimbolen99 11/17/2014, 3:16 pm

Thanks Audrey.
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Post  camprn 11/17/2014, 3:22 pm

Yes, thank you for the reminder Audrey. In an ideal world, that would be the ideal Berkley 18 day schedule. I find that I have less shrinkage when I control the temp in the pile to below 150... The reality is I, the gardener, do not have to be so stringent to a time line to be effective in making compost with an accelerated schedule. Usually if I wait for temps to go down to near 100F before turning, there-by letting the microbes do more work, the pile is typically done in 4 weeks, instead of 2.5 weeks.

I say no worries if you can't turn a pile because it's 28 degrees outside. It'll keep. Wink

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Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts 11/17/2014, 3:26 pm

camprn wrote:Yes, thank you for the reminder Audrey. In an ideal world, that would be the ideal Berkley 18 day schedule. I  find that I have less shrinkage when I control the temp in the pile to below 150...  The reality is I, the gardener, do not have to be so stringent  to a time line to be effective in making compost with an accelerated schedule. Usually if I wait for temps to go down to near 100F before turning, there-by letting the microbes do more work, the pile is typically done in 4 weeks, instead of 2.5 weeks.

I say no worries if you can't turn a pile because it's 28 degrees outside. It'll keep. Wink
Good information there - the longer I garden the less I sweat about minor details.  It just all kind of takes care of itself!

I couldn't agree more with your last line, LOL!!!!!!  Except in my case I might have to replace it with "I say no worries if you can't turn a pile because it's 108 degrees outside.  It'll keep. Wink!"
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Post  sanderson 11/18/2014, 3:01 am

Here's a question for the experts. I've been pruning for 3 days and tomorrow we should be able to rent a chipper/shredder. Small branches, max 1.5" with lots of green leaves. If I add green grass clippings and Starbucks, can I do a Berkeley? Do I need horse manure> I will add a little blood meal.

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Post  camprn 11/18/2014, 6:33 am

Leaves are carbon regardless of their color. You will most likely need to have greater amounts of a nitrogen source.

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Post  sanderson 11/18/2014, 11:22 am

sobbing 'Fraid of that.  DH is a little burned out on gathering horse manure for the year. If he balks,  waste of time , at least we'll end up with nice mulch for for the landscaping for next summer.  Starting Dec 1, the City has banned all watering for 3 or 4 months.

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Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts 11/18/2014, 12:08 pm

Fresh branches with green leaves have always worked well for me.  At a previous home I would layer them with lawn clippings from our large lawns.  Here I have used the horse manure.  I had 4 or 5 bags of them in this compost load and they were broken down within a week to where you can't recognize them at all.  My chipper makes very small particles.

I would make it with what you have and see what happens. As you said, you can always use it for mulch if it doesn't get cooking.

Should your sweetie not want to go get the manure, I'll just have to invite you up for a visit and we can load you up from the pile that's here.  It's already broken down into virtually dust so all it has to be is shoveled then hydrated!
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Post  yolos 11/18/2014, 2:38 pm

camprn wrote:Leaves are carbon regardless of their color. You will most likely need to have greater amounts of a nitrogen source.

I have no idea if this websit is correct, but the Klickit compost calculator says "fresh leaves" are 37:1.  I do not know what ratio of C:N makes them carbon vs nitrogen,but I would think 37:1 would be close to a nitrogen.  I also do not know how "fresh" fresh is.


http://www.klickitatcounty.org/solidwaste/fileshtml/organics/compostcalc.htm
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Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts 11/18/2014, 3:05 pm

yolos wrote:
camprn wrote:Leaves are carbon regardless of their color. You will most likely need to have greater amounts of a nitrogen source.

I have no idea if this websit is correct, but the Klickit compost calculator says "fresh leaves" are 37:1.  I do not know what ratio of C:N makes them carbon vs nitrogen,but I would think 37:1 would be close to a nitrogen.  I also do not know how "fresh" fresh is.


http://www.klickitatcounty.org/solidwaste/fileshtml/organics/compostcalc.htm
30:1 is perfect for composting, 37:1 would lean nitrogen

They certainly are treated as such with ramial woodchip mulching (fresh small branches less than 3 inch diameter with lots of green leaves).  

In my experience it's not taken a lot of additional nitrogen to get a pile going with them and if my memory serves me right (*questionable at best, LOL!*) I think I've even composted them all alone coming straight from my chipper/shredder.
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Post  Turan 11/18/2014, 10:59 pm

Those numbers are C:N, carbon to nitrogen.  37:1 is higher carbon but really close to ideal.

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Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts 11/18/2014, 11:07 pm

Turan wrote:Those numbers are C:N, carbon to nitrogen.  37:1 is higher carbon but really close to ideal.
I was just coming back to correct myself, but you beat me to it!  My kids would plead "Brain fart!"
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Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts 11/18/2014, 11:09 pm

I love that calculator.  just put my latest pile info in, there is no seaweed choice so I used cow manure which is 17:1 while seaweed is 19:1.  Close enough!  I get 29:1 on the pile and considering how strong it has been that makes sense.

Thanks for sharing it Very Happy
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Post  sanderson 11/19/2014, 12:03 am

Good news. When I got home from the dentist, there was 33 gallons of fresh horsey and 2 large bags of Starbucks. bounce

The ramial material was made from what I would call moose food, small, tender, green-leafed twigs and branches. We ran it through twice. The large chunks will be added to the proposed mulch (summer proofing) under the orange tree, the rest go into the compost tomorrow.

Thanks, everyone.

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Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts 11/19/2014, 12:48 am

What a good man - he's a keeper for sure!
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Post  sanderson 11/19/2014, 1:07 am

Yep.

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Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts 11/21/2014, 10:53 am

Only in California... I turned my pile this morning... In flip flops... In my tinker bell Jammie's... At 45 degrees!  

I am of course my hubby's chief source of amusement, and thank goodness it didn't occur to him to grab a camera and document the occasion!
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Post  grownsunshine 11/21/2014, 11:43 am

audrey.jeanne.roberts wrote:Only in California... I turned my pile this morning... In flip flops... In my tinker bell Jammie's... At 45 degrees!  

I am of course my hubby's chief source of amusement, and thank goodness it didn't occur to him to grab a camera and document the occasion!

Tinker Bell?! Nice! Full body/1 piece pajamas...is my guess.
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