Re: Anyone see any problems?

FamilyGardening 2/20/2014, 2:11 am

Keeper..... sunny

thanks for the info from Tomatoes love carrots!...some really good ideas we want to try.....

happy gardening
rose

tumtumsback 2/20/2014, 7:02 am

Yeah keeper, thank you very much for the info! I wonder if the cigarette ash part means that the cigarette ash should be mixed into the soil when I'm starting from seed indoors, or does it mean when I go to transplant my squash seedling to the beds outside, that's when I can mix cigarette ash into the hole where I'm doing the transplant...?

Marc Iverson 2/20/2014, 8:41 pm

Even burnt tobacco is supposed to be a no-no around tomatoes, or touching tomatoes after smoking because of tobacco ... umm, tobacco mosaic virus, I think it is, being very easily caught by tomatoes.

**camprn** 2/20/2014, 8:44 pm

Marc Iverson wrote:Even burnt tobacco is supposed to be a no-no around tomatoes, or touching tomatoes after smoking because of tobacco ... umm, tobacco mosaic virus, I think it is, being very easily caught by tomatoes.

I don't know if the ash would be able to transmit any virus but it is considered a toxic substance which; nicotine is used as an broadspectrum insecticide ingredient.

Why is ash being added?

Marc Iverson 2/20/2014, 9:03 pm

From http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_cigarette_ashes_kill_house_plants

"The biggest risk to plants from cigarettes is tobacco mosaic virus (TMV). Even in its dried and packaged form, tobacco can transmit TMV. This virus infects 150 different plant species, can live up to 50 years in a dry plant and can be transmitted from the hands of a smoker to the plants he is working with. "

and

"While the burning of the tobacco may kill TMV inside the heated portion, it is still possible to conduct TMV from the unburned portion of tobacco onto the colder portion of ash as its falling from the cigarette."

wiki isn't the most authoritative source, but it's a starting point, and it's not the only place I've read it.

It's also very alkaline. My mother wanted to use hers on her rhododendrons, but I advised against, as they are a VERY acid-loving plant.

At the master gardener's course a week or two ago, it was recommended that those who use ash let it age a bit first.

**camprn** 2/20/2014, 9:25 pm

I'm sorry, I am still not clear where ash came into this conversation..... what is the ash to be used for? Shocked

Marc Iverson 2/20/2014, 9:30 pm

tumtumsback was asking keeper about it.

**camprn** 2/20/2014, 9:44 pm

Marc Iverson wrote:tumtumsback was asking keeper about it.

AH I found it, thanks Mark.

keepercjr wrote:

For squash it says the same thing about the radishes and protection from insects. Nasturtiums help repel squash bugs as well as cigarette ash and tobacco residue if placed with the seed when it is planted.

My advice, if you are a novice gardener, is to disregard this advice

keepercjr 2/21/2014, 11:58 am

I have no idea why the book recommended cigarette ash. I was just repeating what the book said. And it did say only with the seed at planting. I don't smoke so would never use it. In the section for tomatoes it said that if you smoke to make sure you wash your hands thoroughly before you work in your garden.

pryz123 2/21/2014, 12:06 pm

keepercjr wrote:In the book "Carrots Love Tomatoes and Roses Love Garlic: Secrets of Companion Planting for Successful Gardening" http://www.amazon.com/CARROTS-LOVE-TOMATOES-ROSES-GARLIC/dp/1580178294/ref=la_B001H6IT68_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392866404&sr=1-5

it says that tomatoes and brassicas (cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, etc) repel each other and should be kept apart. Tomatoes also dislike potatoes and fennel. Tomatoes protect asparagus against the asparagus beetle. Tomatoes are compatible with chives, onion, parsley, marigolds, nasturtium, and carrots. Oh and don't plant tomatoes near corn.

I have had stunted broccoli when planted too close to tomatoes. I think it was 2 to 3 feet away and never produced a head. This was about 10 years ago before reading about companion planting. Hope that helps.

**donnainzone5** 2/21/2014, 1:38 pm

Tobacco mosaic virus could indeed be a problem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_mosaic_virus

**llama momma** 2/21/2014, 2:15 pm

pryz123

This was my experience awhile back, with pictures

https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t13959-pics-of-broccs-with-tomatoes-not-compatible?highlight=tomatoes+++++broccoli

martha 2/21/2014, 3:23 pm

I wouldn't use cigarette ash on a bet! Wood ash maybe, although I agree with Camp that as a brand new gardener, I might not go there just yet, either.

edfhinton 2/21/2014, 7:47 pm

Last year, my cucumbers were only about 2 feet from summer squash (adjacent corners of adjacent boxes with narrow aisle). The cucumbers did not end up being cucumbers. They were definitely a cross between the cucumbers and the summers squash. I don;t know if the particular variety of each matters, but it's not something I intend to do in the future. That said, I don;t see anything about not planting them close together. But considering the similarity of the vines, it didn't entirely surprise me that they had crossed.

-Ed

edfhinton 2/21/2014, 7:54 pm

I have also read that cucumbers and squash cannot genetically cross pollinate, but if that was not what happened, it is a pretty big coincidence that I had bulbous cucumbers some of which were half to two-thirds creamy yellow on the outside and the insides looked more like squash.

**camprn** 2/21/2014, 7:55 pm

Ed, maybe your seed pack was mislabeled.

tumtum, did you get all of your questions answered?

edfhinton 2/21/2014, 8:09 pm

I have no way to rule out the possibility of a mislabelled seed packet. But they were not entirely squash either. They did have tomatoes near them as well, but my understanding of that was just that cukes and tomatoes might not like growing as well near each other, not crossing. Maybe just fluke, but I still will probably avoid it again anyway since I have enough space.

-Ed

**camprn** 2/21/2014, 8:13 pm

Even if the cukes were visited by pollinators with squash pollen on them, it would be the next generation of plants where you would see the mix of genetic material.

edfhinton 2/21/2014, 8:23 pm

Makes me wonder if it is possible the seeds had been cross-contaminated with something else (who knows what) from wherever the seeds got harvested, and perhaps I was seeing the result. I had assumed tight control over that kind of thing for bought seeds, but given the explanations I wonder (the seeds came from Burpee).

Thanks for the additional knowledge.

-Ed

tumtumsback 2/22/2014, 10:34 am

Camprn,

Thank you for checking in with me! I guess I've got all my questions answered... From the looks of llama momma's experience with her Broccoli towards the north side (near the tomatoes) not growing as well as the Broccoli on the south side (away from the tomatoes), I'm still a bit worried...

I'm thinking that Broccoli is much more of a priority than most of my other smaller vegetables, as I love Broccoli and need it for my Salads and Stir Fry -- thinking that I might sacrifice three boxes (the Swiss Chard, Yellow Onion, and Kale on the north side of the bed in the bottom right corner) and replacing those with Broccoli. Does anyone know if Broccoli does bad next to Carrots/Lettuce/Green Onion? I think they all play fine together...

Here is a pic again so you don't have to flip back and forth on pages:

Anyone see any problems? - Page 2 Garden11

Anyone see any problems? - Page 2 Garden11

boffer 2/22/2014, 10:48 am

Typically, zucchini and yellow squash are bush/semi-bush plants that take up a lot of space. Some folks have managed to train them up a trellis; is that your plan?

I've only planted them on corners, where I could force them to grow out into the aisles. Planting them in the middle of a row could get crowded.

Edit: just looked at the book. 2 sf for vining squash. 9 sf for bush squash.

tumtumsback 2/22/2014, 11:07 am

Boffer,

I am planning on training them up a trellis, as the book said (on page 164 in the box on the left) Summer Squash and Winter Squash can/should be trellised... The only reason I planned on this layout with the trellising is because someone told me that Tomatoes and Cukes don't exactly play well together, so I tried separating them apart with the Squash.

Essentially, I have all of these vegetables to be planted:

Broccoli
Yellow Onion
Green Onion
Eggplant
Pepper
Lettuce
Swiss Chard
Kale
Tomato
Carrot
Zucchini
Yellow Squash
Cucumber

And with all of these different vegetables, I am trying to figure out how to use my 54 squares to get the most balanced proportions of yields for all veggies (with less priority on eggplant, carrot, and green onion) while keeping in mind the companions and what veggies need a trellis, support, etc. This is no easy task for a newbie like me! Any help on restructuring my layout would be greatly appreciated!

boffer 2/22/2014, 11:30 am

If you have the room, you could make 1 foot square boxes and set them on the ground for planting squashes. You could train them up their own trellis, or space permitting, let them grow as they will.

I can't speak to the validity of companion planting.

But, when gardeners start driving themselves crazy trying to accommodate companion planting, crop rotation, spacing, trellis use, and plant heights, companion planting is often the first criteria to be dropped off the list.

**camprn** 2/22/2014, 11:44 am

boffer wrote:

But, when gardeners start driving themselves crazy trying to accommodate companion planting, crop rotation, spacing, trellis use, and plant heights, companion planting is often the first criteria to be dropped off the list.

+1

tumtumsback 2/23/2014, 8:26 am

Ok, I am feeling better now Smile

Here is the new layout, taking into account the spacing of big ol squash, and considering my love for broccoli...

Anyone see any problems? - Page 2 Garden12

Anyone see any problems? - Page 2 Garden12

Do any new problems arise with the way my Broccoli is sitting next to the carrots/onions/lettuce? Are they now going to get shaded out? By the way, my garden is just barely going to see over 6 hours of light per day, so these all shouldn't get super huge...

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Anyone see any problems?