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Help me correct my mistakes for next year please Toplef10Help me correct my mistakes for next year please 1zd3ho10

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Help me correct my mistakes for next year please

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Post  stevenfstein 8/21/2022, 2:07 pm

This was my 2nd year and it was a disaster. Probably didn't do the right thing end of last year or this Spring but too late now. To compound the problem a groundhog took up residence in a burrow in the garden. Here is a synopsis of what went right/wrong. Bush beans from seed - great crop, tons of beans - groundhog loved the flowers so I took out all the plants. Tomatoes, several different varieties. String method and pinching out all the suckers. Spindly plants and not a great harvest, some plants never really developed. Zucchini - one plant did great, one barely grew with only a few vegetables. Cucumbers. Three plants on trellis. Got to be about 5 feet tall, tons of flowers, two cucumbers. Basil grew but was pale green. Eggplant/peppers hardly any yield and small. I have 12 4x3 sections in a 12" deep raised bed, all new last year. 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 peat and 1/3 compost but not 5 different kinds. What should I do either end of season or early Spring to get it back to where it should be. In New York so probably will get from Lowes or Home Depot or Ace Hardware. Could also order from Amazon. Garden level has dropped an inch or two from last year.

Much appreciated.... Steve
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Post  heyteegee 8/25/2022, 1:33 am

I'm a beginner too and had struggles with pests, critters, diseases...
I've heard of many others having issues with zucchini this year, having almost all male flowers (I only got 3 fruits from my 3 plants!).
Hard to say what your issue/s was/were - enough water? enough sun? enough pollination? did you fertilize/amend?
Too bad about your beans - can you add a rabbit fence or other barrier if he's a problem next year, instead of yanking all the plants out?
It's a constant learning curve for sure, but I am determined and won't give up - sounds like you have the same attitude! Hopefully others more experienced than me can chime in to help...
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Post  markqz 8/25/2022, 12:06 pm

stevenfstein wrote:This was my 2nd year and it was a disaster.
Did you top up your garden with compost at the start of the year?
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Post  stevenfstein 8/25/2022, 2:27 pm

I think so but don't remember totally. I did put some worm castings in each planting hole and mixed it in with the dirt. My plan in the spring is in each of the 4x3 sections to add one bag of composted cow manure, one bag of mushroom compost, one bag of chicken compost and about 1/4 bag of earthworm castings. Just curious but why are fertilizers such a big no no. Was going to mix in some Old Farmers Almanac Organic Tomato and Vegetable plant food and Dr. Earth Organic Tomato Vegetable and Herb Dry Fertilizer. 


Steve
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Post  OhioGardener 8/25/2022, 4:49 pm

stevenfstein wrote: Just curious but why are fertilizers such a big no no. Was going to mix in some Old Farmers Almanac Organic Tomato and Vegetable plant food and Dr. Earth Organic Tomato Vegetable and Herb Dry Fertilizer.

Mostly because they are totally unnecessary with all of the compost. The compost has the same nutrients as the organic fertilizers, and adding organic fertilizer to compost is an unnecessary expense.  They generally don't hurt anything, but don't necessarily add anything either. 


My plan in the spring is in each of the 4x3 sections to add one bag of composted cow manure, one bag of mushroom compost, one bag of chicken compost and about 1/4 bag of earthworm castings.

That composted cow manure, mushroom compost, chicken compost, and worm castings will add more nutrients for the plants than the fertilizers you listed. Adjust the worm castings to about 10% of the mixture you add, i.e., for 3 bags of compost add 3/10ths of a bag of worm castings.

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Post  Scorpio Rising 8/25/2022, 6:33 pm

It was a rough year, but it seems like you should have had a better harvest.  Can’t do much about Mr. Groundhog…but you really should amend before you plant each square.  I do it one bed at a time in the Spring due to leaching in the winter (snow, rain) here.  If you track by bed it’s a little easier.  The only exception to this is garlic, since it is planted in fall.

It really sounds to me like things didn’t have enough available nutrients, especially nitrogen.  And some of the things sound like pollination failure….do you have bees, tiny bees?  Do you have flowers and stuff around to attract them?  Usually the male flowers precede the females….just strange to not get fruit off a good plant.
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Post  stevenfstein 8/25/2022, 9:30 pm

Scorpio Rising wrote:It was a rough year, but it seems like you should have had a better harvest.  Can’t do much about Mr. Groundhog…but you really should amend before you plant each square.  I do it one bed at a time in the Spring due to leaching in the winter (snow, rain) here.  If you track by bed it’s a little easier.  The only exception to this is garlic, since it is planted in fall.

It really sounds to me like things didn’t have enough available nutrients, especially nitrogen.  And some of the things sound like pollination failure….do you have bees, tiny bees?  Do you have flowers and stuff around to attract them?  Usually the male flowers precede the females….just strange to not get fruit off a good plant.
Nutrients probably, tons of bees and cabbage butterflies.

Thanks to all....  Steve
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Post  stevenfstein 9/4/2022, 11:51 am

Well, at least one problem soon to be gone... will be relocated to a preserve.

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Post  sanderson 9/7/2022, 10:44 pm

Catch and relocate. Very Happy

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Post  wargarden2017 9/20/2022, 11:00 pm

1. it is best to check your local state or provence laws and regulation on 
the issue groundhog and other pest animal trapping. 
2.Make sure relocating is legal. In some places it not
legal to relocate wild animals. Animal control or licensed animal 
pest service must handle the problem. 
3. also make sure you move him if  it legal very far away or they 
have been known come back.
4. also you need to do certain things to the burrow so another groundhogs will not take up residence and you don't have the same issue.
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Post  stevenfstein 9/21/2022, 3:46 pm

hired a professional who relocates to some kind of preserve (I hope).

Best... Steve
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Post  Soose 9/24/2022, 10:31 am

OhioGardener wrote:That composted cow manure, mushroom compost, chicken compost, and worm castings will add more nutrients for the plants than the fertilizers you listed. Adjust the worm castings to about 10% of the mixture you add, i.e., for 3 bags of compost add 3/10ths of a bag of worm castings.

I had a bad year, too. Some of the same probs, some diff.  Not much produce for the effort, other than lots of grape/cherry tomatoes, those have produced even though the plants to me don't look that great.  And we did get some broc/cabbage even though we got the transplants in late.  Seriously, many of my plants we only got one veg off of, maybe two. 

Question about all the manure stevenfstein is planning -- isn't that a LOT of manure in relation to compost to be adding next Spring?  I thought we were supposed to limit manure to 20% of the compost part of the MM.  Asking for my own understanding.
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Post  sanderson 9/24/2022, 2:18 pm

Soose, correct.

Try to limit manure-based compost to 20-25% of the total compost. All manures count the same - so there isn't any need to find more than one good one. Be prepared to sift because so many brands have declined in quality control.

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Post  OhioGardener 9/24/2022, 4:01 pm

Soose wrote:Question about all the manure stevenfstein is planning -- isn't that a LOT of manure in relation to compost to be adding next Spring?  I thought we were supposed to limit manure to 20% of the compost part of the MM. 

As Sanderson said, that is correct.  The comment I made above was in reference to the fact that they do not need to add fertilizers or other amendments with all of that manure-based compost.

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Post  Chuck d'Argy 10/5/2022, 7:45 pm

This year's garden wass much better than last, but I used fertilizer, Jacob Stakes for vegetables. 

Tomatoes did great, peppers too. 3 of 4 cabbages did well. All kohl robis, 8 altogether. taters so so.

But squash and cukes did not grow well. That box was new MM, so I guess that's the issue.

Am going to try to grow the size of the garden again in 2023. Hence my OCB with the planner.

Overall I can't complain too much.
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Post  Soose 10/6/2022, 9:46 am

Soose wrote:I had a bad year, too. Some of the same probs, some diff.  Not much produce for the effort, other than lots of grape/cherry tomatoes, those have produced even though the plants to me don't look that great.  And we did get some broc/cabbage even though we got the transplants in late.  Seriously, many of my plants we only got one veg off of, maybe two. 
Would appreciate help addressing the poor performance of MM for the first year for those of us having the problem.  I really tried to get the MM right.  Invested a lot of funds and trouble.  People I have met in this area who didn't invest in MM but used the SFG method with regular dirt from our area have done much better -- by that I mean they had productive gardens -- than I have had.  The only thing I can think is that my two "yard/kit waste" compost sources were already leached out.
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Post  sanderson 10/9/2022, 12:44 am

It's really hard to diagnose why one person's new MM worked and another person's new MM didn't.  Mine didn't work because I used a Kellogg's soil amendment for the compost instead of real composts.

Here are some possible reasons:

1.  Not fluffing the peat moss before measuring, leading to too much of a non-nutrient portion.
2. Not wetting the peat moss or Mel's Mix thoroughly, making it hard to moisten the MM thoroughly in the bed.
3.  Not using real composts (using soil amendment, raised bed mix, potting mix, etc.).
4.  Not keeping the MM moist (moist throughout the bed).
5.  Not adding enough MM to a bed so that after thoroughly watering the bed, there isn't a full 6" of MM.
6.  Setting the bed in a low spot so that it can't drain.
7.  Growing in thin plastic containers without protecting from direct sunlight. The MM and roots can heat up.
This is may be more critical in hot summer regions like mine.
8.  Not mulching to slow surface evaporation and keep the roots cool.  Again, maybe more critical in hot and dry summer regions like mine.
9.  Over watering.

I'm sure there are more possible reasons.

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Post  Soose 10/9/2022, 7:34 am

sanderson wrote:It's really hard to diagnose why one person's new MM worked and another person's new MM didn't.  Mine didn't work because I used a Kellogg's soil amendment for the compost instead of real composts.

Here are some possible reasons:
Thanks for the list, Sanderson.  Understood it's hard to diagnose.   I'm sure the list will help everyone who sees the thread. 

I think none of these in the list apply to mine, although we did have a hot Summer for us and everyone's garden suffered.  But what we're seeing must be nutritional deficiencies or imbalances, surely. 

I return to just suspecting the compost we bought and the compost from my own old compost bin was leached out.  Hmm, but the volunteer from that old compost bin - a butternut squash - was healthy and prolific.  I had not thought of that.  We harvested about 20 big squashes from it last week.
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Post  sanderson 10/9/2022, 4:00 pm

Soose wrote:I return to just suspecting the compost we bought and the compost from my own old compost bin was leached out.  Hmm, but the volunteer from that old compost bin - a butternut squash - was healthy and prolific.  I had not thought of that.  We harvested about 20 big squashes from it last week.
That is quite a harvest from one plant! Help me correct my mistakes for next year please 3170584802

Have you tried the compost test? Try to germinate radishes (because they only take 3 or so days to sprout, and beans because they are sensitive to herbicides. Use the bulk compost in some pots and your own compost in others.

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Post  Soose 10/10/2022, 7:31 am

sanderson wrote:Have you tried the compost test?  Try to germinate radishes (because they only take 3 or so days to sprout, and beans because they are sensitive to herbicides.  Use the bulk compost in some pots and your own compost in others.

Going forward I'll have to use the test method...  I did not do it last Spring when filling the new MM in the new raised beds. 

My son went and bought some planting soil of some type for elsewhere in the yard, and I am making him test it with some beans before he uses it. So far a kidney bean is poking out of the surface, but I want to make sure it doesn't grow all curled and twisted like the stuff in this old manure did. (That manure that might be contaminated was over a year old she said, but it had no worms in it. Isn't that a sign?)
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Post  SMEDLEY BUTLER 5/16/2024, 4:46 pm

I realize this is an old post from 2022. My weakness when making new Mel's Mix is definitely the 5 types of compost. Usually I wind up with at most 3 or 4. I use an old kiddie pool to wet the peat moss. I leave it in the bale , make some slashes in it and put about 10 gal. of water in the pool. I do this a week before I am ready to use it.

I do use Bone Meal and Flaxseed Meal in every planting hole. A handful of each in the bottom of the hole and the plant right on top. I plant really deep so my Mel's Mix is usually 12 to 15 inches deep. The extra cost is well worth it. 

I've never had a problem with Mel's Mix, even in a new bed. Although it seems to get better as it ages. It's possible that your peat is not wet enough and the other ingredients are not mixed well. It's hard to get the proportions right in a wheelbarrow. That's why I use a kiddie pool, makes it a lot easier.
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Post  sanderson 5/27/2024, 1:45 pm

Smedley, Are you aware that we don't use fertilizers with our Mel's Mix? We only mix in more blended compost to bring the height of the Mel's Mix back up to where it started.

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Post  SMEDLEY BUTLER 5/27/2024, 6:51 pm

I guess I am going to have to leave the last century and move into the present century. In the mid to late 80's I attended a dozen or more of Mel's seminars, mostly in southern Ohio and Indiana. I would wait for most people to leave and try to engage Mel in conversation. He was one of the most cerebral and analytical people I have ever met. I ask him once if there was ever a need for additional fertilizer. Not normally, but if the plants were extremely stressed, an organic fertilizer could be used. I Asked about the time for organics to respond but he was adamant that only organics could be used.

 I've been using Blood and Bone Meal on all my transplants ever since. I keep a 55 gallon drum of MM with which I replenish the squares. I have Mel's second book somewhere, guess I need to find it and get  more in line with the program. Mel did say that if anything was not behaving as expected that it was probably because the MM was not mixed properly nor saturated with enough water.

Maybe I shouldn't call myself a square foot gardener any more. now maybe I should call myself a semi-square foot gardener.
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Post  donnainzone5 5/27/2024, 8:04 pm

Please read either the second or third edition.  Another option is to take our online course, or visit and explore www.squarefootgardening.org.
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