Cover Crops??

Just a little sharing, here. My aggie friend recommended not using "grasses" due to the root density. I think that was the reason. Any how, he recommends a mix of seeds, some narrow and deep, some shallow and broad rooted.

sanderson wrote:Just a little sharing, here.  My aggie friend recommended not using "grasses" due to the root density.  I think that was the reason.  Any how, he recommends a mix of seeds, some narrow and deep, some shallow and broad rooted.

Thanks Sanderson, for the suggestion.
Obviously, I like cutting into new pathway that cut down our expanses , but increase the results with our plants.  after watching the video from the leaf mold/compost versus Back to Eden video, I change my mind somewhat about the grasses. I don't remember which video, but it's not # 1 or #2. possibly not #3,4. not sure. but in one of the videos he just using hairy vetch with tomatoes I believe and grasses with peppers. He open the ground so we could see the result on miccorhizae, which causes the roots to share the water, bacteria and fungi, etc. the massive roots were not a problem.  This was  a different concept to accept until I visually saw it.
 I bought a mixed seed package that I'm going to plant tomorrow.[url=Peaceful Valley Organic Premium Soil Builder Mix - Raw Seed]Peaceful Valley Organic Premium Soil Builder Mix - Raw Seed[/url]
 It fits the suggestion of your aggie friend. Currently the mix contains: Bell Beans, Biomaster or 4010 Peas, Purple Vetch, Hairy Vetch, Common Vetch and Cayuse or Monida Oats.

I do believe the grasses will be a problem with the non miccorhizae plants, so I going to scattered lightly different seeds, mainly some wheat and rye, but they will be one or two seeds  here and there. may also try some winter peas.

this is an experiment of taking the idea down to the SFG beds. will post result. if it works it will be great, because it takes no time to plant a seed here and there.
This is not about preventing erosion, break up the soil, preventing weeds, because we don't have those problems with SFG. but increasing organic matter, nutrient cycling, nitrogen fixation, attracting beneficial insects, nematodes control and miccorhizae fungi growth is a great goal, if it can be achieved by simply adding some seeds to our beds.
we'll see how it goes.
Patrick on one yard revolution, youtube channel is doing it now with good results. The difference is Patrick doesn't show what happens below the soil and the other guy is dedicated of teaching by visual proof what happening.
also, I'm going to try the self reseeding of my greens beds into the spring. will see how it goes.

sanderson wrote:Just a little sharing, here.  My aggie friend recommended not using "grasses" due to the root density.  I think that was the reason.  Any how, he recommends a mix of seeds, some narrow and deep, some shallow and broad rooted.

This sounds like a great idea. I heard of cover crops last year, just found one or two and went with it..Some good input here is going to make me investigate this topic further. In any event, I sure love looking at the green all winter, at least when I'm able to sit out near the garden.. My deck is close to the garden, when fall close into winter I change things around and half close it in, a roof over head gives me to opportunity to enjoy being outside when winter takes breaks.
I'll sit there with coffee or hot chocolate in hand thinking about the next season..

For any new members, cover crops are not a necessary step.  Mel simplified the process for us.  The Square Foot Gardening technique is so complete that I would call cover cropping a labor of love and an extra curricular activity. The magic is in the compost and Mel's Mix as described in his book.

llama momma wrote:For any new members, cover crops are not a necessary step.  Mel simplified the process for us.  The Square Foot Gardening technique is so complete that I would call cover cropping a labor of love and an extra curricular activity.  The magic is in the compost and Mel's Mix as described in his book.

You said it all...All in the compost.
If I had it to do over, I would learn composting first, a most rewarding task.

jimmy cee wrote:

llama momma wrote:For any new members, cover crops are not a necessary step.  Mel simplified the process for us.  The Square Foot Gardening technique is so complete that I would call cover cropping a labor of love and an extra curricular activity.  The magic is in the compost and Mel's Mix as described in his book.

You said it all...All in the compost.
If I had it to do over, I would learn composting first, a most rewarding task.

Thank you Jimmy for being you and so understanding.  I didn't mean to squash any enthusiasm on your part or anyone else's.  I just try to express retaining the simple yet powerful teachings of Mel!

The funny thing is that many of us longer term ANSFG adherents know that Mel's system works anywhere in the world , it's as cheap as you can get especially if you make a decent amount of home made compost ( Not Mel's starter / initial kick starting mix ) prior to setting up your square foot beds for you can use the quality home made compost neat it has enough drainage , moisture retention  & nutrients on its own.

I've followed these reinvention of the wheel things/ ideas many times , again & again non come anywhere near to Mel's proven idea's .

Even after 40 or so years of row gardening  & the last 18 or so following and eventually fully implementing everything in Mel's last  ANSFG book ( when I joined the site ) , where we now use a non mother earth soil growth medium , I don't see any improvements happening over what Mel said .

I've reread all his three main books many , many times over , some pages , I could almost repeat verbatim . Yet I'm still discovering little gems that had previously eluded me ,  It's like Mel's popped back and inserted a few more interesting & useful lines whilst I'm asleep .

 Honest guys & gals it's a complete system , you don't need other books , you Tube clips  one sided arguments  etc etc. or any additional expenditure of money or a lot of extra hard work energy once you get the system up & going for a couple of years .

So long as you read the manual shown in my strap line time & time again , so you start to understand what Mel has really said you'll not go wrong .

Plantoid ...

An excellent statement

I wholly agreed with what llama and planetoid have to say. this research and development project/experiment is only for people who like tinkering with new ideas. The the ANSFG is sufficient and complete. the R&D Journey is for us tinkerers only. Like working on a car, boat, kitchen appliance etc... It addresses the what if... is there something more curiosity within some of us or have we arrives at all the knowledge we can have in this field. It like saying "all the gold in the world is in China". I wondered is that true?

Thanks Sanderson for changing the name. This thread was started before I realized I needed to separate the name from SFG to prevent confusion. Let the experiments continue. To infinity and beyond.

Bump

OhioGardener wrote:

https://www.rareseeds.com/takane-ruby-buckwheat/

Looks beautiful, like our California native buckwheat, species - Eriogunum grande var. rubescen or San Miguel Island Buckwheat, only darker.

Pretty flowers!

OG what's the latest you can plant cover crops in Ohio?

Thank you. I was going to give it a try, but the night temps are 31-45 degrees and the daytime 50 to '70s. I don't know if they will germinate.

Ohio, loving those flowers and your post made me think.

I see a lot of folks believe that cover crops are an extra curricular activity, reinventing the wheel or tinkering with an already perfect system.

I'm curious as to what folks do at the end of the season with putting their beds to sleep, do you cover with leaves, mulch, plastic?
What if you have "0" resources?

There's more to cover crops than most know.

My opinion as a cover crop user,
They suit more than one purpose.
They are not merely to add bio-mass or to feed microbes and earthworms, but they also can scavenge nitrogen, be used as a nitrogen catch crop to prevent leeching, prevent erosion, are a great mulch, green manure, suppress weeds, help control pests and disease, help beneficial insects and wildlife, can be used as animal forage, look attractive as Ohio Gardener pointed out.

Cover crops do not need to flower to help beneficial insects.



It is cheaper for me to plant oats as a cover crop than it is to buy mulch. If I had "0" resources and was to buy bagged mulch to cover my beds it would take 12 bags of mulch @ $3.00 a bag, thats $36.00.


I bought a 40 pound bag of oats for $15.00 and so far used maybe 6 pounds in the last two years.
That's 37 cents a pound.
This year it cost me $1.11 in oats to do my beds.


Plus you can start cover drops early by under-cropping to get a jump on the cover crop.



Plus I get a few more months of my beds still looking green








And not like this





I even do my planters.

I was wondering the same thing for tomatoes and cucumber and melons. Will crimson clover grow in Texas? You said it never get tall. I have been pretty busy but this has been on my mind for a few months. I have a cover crop growing now of a mixture of organic common vetch, bell beans, cayese oat and field peas. This is the first time for me. I bought them from peaceful valley. I just planted snow peas into them this week. It was very easy. I used a long handle finger hoe to make a tiny furrow and drop the seeds, step on them and push the soil back over it with the hoe. I just walk and drop the seeds in from my waist, no bending. Took about 10 mins to do 5 beds.

Just wondering 2 things. If the clover is still growing but it's time to plant the summer veggies, can't the clover be snipped off at Mix level and left to dry as mulch. Second, if the clover is left to grow, won't it be a competitor for water and nutrients other than nitrogen?

Thank you.