Did I get the MM wrong or do I need patience?

I posted on another thread, no answers. Took a photo this evening...  ideas would be appreciated.

Soose wrote:But the SFG despite being verdant with huge plants is not producing much vegetables.  Am I just too early, will it catch up?  Or have I got the mix wrong?  Will it improve as soil biology settles in? 

How am I to know?  Friends who just planted in the ground are getting way more produce, despite getting in later than my late transplants.

Harvest so far: 
2 small eggplants
5 yellow crookneck squash
3 small green peppers
4 "pickling cucumbers" that are the wrong shape (unknown plant origin)
various broccoli head parts (got those in late) but some good broc and cabbage leaves for greens.

Soose wrote:But the SFG despite being verdant with huge plants is not producing much vegetables.  Am I just too early, will it catch up?  Or have I got the mix wrong?  Will it improve as soil biology settles in?

The answer to the last question is Yes.  It takes a while for microbial life in the soil to break down the organic matter enough to make the nutrients plant available. The answer to the first question is a little more difficult. Will it catch up? Maybe, or maybe not before it gets too late. It takes a while for the living soil web to get to the point that plants can send out exudates which the microbes use to be able to tailor the nutrients that the plants are asking for.

The first statement, though, is probably a clue to your main problems, though.  "Verdant with huge plants" indicates the soil was rich in nitrogen and the plants loved it. But, a high nitrogen content in the soil which results in large plants prevents those plants from setting fruit. Did your MM have a high manure or worm casting content? Or, did you add fertilizers, organic or otherwise, which would encourage plant growth.

OhioGardener wrote:The first statement, though, is probably a clue to your main problems, though.  "Verdant with huge plants" indicates the soil was rich in nitrogen and the plants loved it. But, a high nitrogen content in the soil which results in large plants prevents those plants from setting fruit. Did your MM have a high manure or worm casting content? Or, did you add fertilizers, organic or otherwise, which would encourage plant growth.

I just added in the "deformed cuke" thread...   My compost mix was:

--1/5th Black Kow (Lowe's) with a part of that a small amt of organic chicken manure (Epsoma pellets, Rural King)

--1/5th worm castings (from a farmer)

--1/5th my own veg/leaf compost (sitting here and might have leached out? who knows?)

--1/5th the farmer's veg/leaf compost

--1/5th Black Velvet mushroom compost (Lowe's)

Is there any way I can recover from this this season or year? 

I think y'all have said that the normal soil tests do not properly test nitrogen content of a soilless mix like MM.  But should I get the soil tested?

Soose wrote:I think y'all have said that the normal soil tests do not properly test nitrogen content of a soilless mix like MM.  But should I get the soil tested?

No, don't waste your money or time testing for soil nitrogen. Soil tests just test for readily available nitrogen, and the nitrogen in compost in not available until microbes break it down and make it plant available.

Is there any way I can recover from this this season or year? 

The best you can do is be patient -- one of your most difficult tasks -- and wait it out. Over time the microbes will break down the compost into a balanced state. One thing that would give it an immediate boost, but probably not within your capability at this time, would be a saturation of compost tea on the beds to jump start the microbes.

OhioGardener wrote:

Soose wrote:Is there any way I can recover from this this season or year? 

The best you can do is be patient -- one of your most difficult tasks -- and wait it out. Over time the microbes will break down the compost into a balanced state. One thing that would give it an immediate boost, but probably not within your capability at this time, would be a saturation of compost tea on the beds to jump start the microbes.

Thanks very much, OhioGardener.  I do have half a bucket of my own compost remaining.  And some probably that I have not dug out of the old compost bins, down on the bottom.  Worth a try?

Seems microorganisms can be bought in a bag to inoculate?  Worthwhile?

What about the "soaked alfalfa pellets" method?

Or I forgot to return the "compost starter" I'd bought if you remember, a small bag... it got buried under something and I just overlooked it.  Could add that to a compost tea?

I am not panicking but am concerned that I correct this as soon as possible.

[ Another concern is that the SFG instructor who lives in this area said self-wicking and Mel's Mix might send the MM anaerobic as the organics compost, over 6 or 9 months. What we've seen is that the large plants really suck up the water in this heat.  A 4 to 5" water reservoir can be sucked up, I'd have to ask my husband as he's in charge of managing water and transferring from the large collectors, but I think sometimes he has filled the water once/week but more often on average every 5 days. ]

Soose wrote:What about the "soaked alfalfa pellets" method?

I had to go back thru my emails and look for the link I'd originally found about fermenting alfalfa to create microorganism tea:

https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/diy-alfalfa-fertilizer-for-higher-yields/ wrote:

How to Make Mesophyllic Alfalfa Fertilizer

https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/diy-alfalfa-fertilizer-for-higher-yields/

Soose, love that "bird's eye" view.

sanderson wrote:Soose, love that "bird's eye" view.

My better half was on the roof doing something to an antenna. Took the opportunity.

Soose wrote:

Soose wrote:What about the "soaked alfalfa pellets" method?

I had to go back thru my emails and look for the link I'd originally found about fermenting alfalfa to create microorganism tea:

How to Make Mesophyllic Alfalfa Fertilizer

https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/diy-alfalfa-fertilizer-for-higher-yields/

Remember, Alfalfa is a high nitrogen fertilizer. You probably don't want to add more nitrogen at this time.

This Mel's Mix was made in March 2013 and is still in use year around.  Blended compost is added for each spring and fall planting.  Two (2) or 3 years ago, I did refresh with something like 1" of fluffed peat moss and 1/2" of coarse vermiculite.  Note: At the beginning I used 1/2 coarse vermiculite and 1/2 perlite because of the wide difference of cost back then.  Never more!!  I thought over the 9 years that I had removed most of the floating perlite, but that big piece in the middle escaped my scrutiny.

sanderson wrote: At the beginning I used 1/2 coarse vermiculite and 1/2 perlite because of the wide difference of cost back then.  Never more!!  I thought over the 9 years that I had removed most of the floating perlite, but that big piece in the middle escaped my scrutiny.

I have found that over time the Perlite tends to "float" to the top of the soil, and does not stay mixed into the soil like Vermiculite does. That means that it is unable to help retain moisture in the soil, nor can it improve the long term friability of the soil. So, I do not use nor recommend it.

Perlite - let me count the ways I dislike you. You float, don't have any EC and are rough on the hands for those like me who plant with their bare hands. Mel's Mix is so luxurious to work in when it contains vermiculite.

This year, again, my plants started out sickly. I posted elsewhere that I suck at composting and if I understand correctly, the compost is the main ingredient for the plants food. OG seems to speak to that above. So on to plan B for this year until my composting skills improve sufficiently, the MM ages and food becomes usable to plants.

So to recover from me, I got my plants some Jobes Vegetable spikes and used 2 on each plant versus the 4 recommended. The plants are looking much better after a week. What's a Detroit boy supposed to do?

When my composting skills improve to where my plants can be fed sufficiently by it, I will drop the Jobes Spikes and go totally MM.  Either that or I will go down in history as the first person to never get SFG to work right..

I suck at composting too.  But I do it, and primarily use it in the fall when it’s well cooked (or whatever the correct term is).  I use and have become pretty good at judging worm castings, blood and bone meal along with commercial chicken manure (which they say is odorless—but it isn’t).  I supplement my inadequate amounts of homemade compost with these items.  

I learned about most of these from Rodale, I think the Encyclopedia of Gardening.  It is old!

Chuck d'Argy wrote:When my composting skills improve to where my plants can be fed sufficiently by it, I will drop the Jobes Spikes and go totally MM.  Either that or I will go down in history as the first person to never get SFG to work right..

One thing I have learned over the last 3 or 4 decades is that composting more of an art than it is a science.  Don't give up.

Basic rules of composting:

1. If the compost smells putrid or foul, it has too much "green", and needs some "brown" added to it.

2. If the compost does not have a smell, but is not heating up, it needs more "green" added to it.

3.  If the compost smells of sweet earth, it is doing great and just needs time!

OhioGardener wrote:

Chuck d'Argy wrote:When my composting skills improve to where my plants can be fed sufficiently by it, I will drop the Jobes Spikes and go totally MM.  Either that or I will go down in history as the first person to never get SFG to work right..

One thing I have learned over the last 3 or 4 decades is that composting more of an art than it is a science.  Don't give up.

Basic rules of composting:

1. If the compost smells putrid or foul, it has too much "green", and needs some "brown" added to it.

2. If the compost does not have a smell, but is not heating up, it needs more "green" added to it.

3.  If the compost smells of sweet earth, it is doing great and just needs time!

HAHAHA

You may remember Ted Lindsey of the Red Wings "Production Line" of the early and mid 50's, a player until the 60's,  and later as coach. I went to his hockey school. His brother told me when they used to go to the billiard parlor as a family, if Ted didn't win, he wouldn't eat with the family for 3 days, he hated losing that much. And he never changed. After a scrimmage this one time, I was skating off the ice laughing. He came to me, and made his feelings on the matter known in no uncertain terms. Actually it was more positive than negative. He eliminated quit from my vocabulary and inserted an extreme distaste of losing/failing. Failing isn't an option for me. Call me an egomaniac but I think I am smarter than a pile of male bovine waste. Perhaps barely, but smarter nonetheless.

Thanks for the 3 guidelines. It doesn't smell much at all.  But if you held a gun to my head I'd say it's more like 3 than the other 2.

I think part of the problem is the manure was a year or more old when I got it, my friend puts it straight into his garden. It probably doesn't need or simply will not compost. Do I need fresh stuff?

Chuck d'Argy wrote:I think part of the problem is the manure was a year or more old when I got it, my friend puts it straight into his garden. It probably doesn't need or simply will not compost. Do I need fresh stuff?

If the manure was that old, it is probably already partially/mostly composted and did not need additional composting. That means that it has no capability to serve as a "green" to create a microbial burst that generates heat in the compost. So, if we treat the composted manure as a "neutral" rather than a green or a brown, that would mean that the other ingredients have to be in balance of 70% browns to 30% greens. My guess would be that it probably needs some green material added to make that happen -- a bunch of coffee grounds from Starbucks, or some organic Alfalfa meal or pellets -- to jump start it.

I will track down those pellets.
Thanks!!!

Chuck d'Argy wrote:I will track down those pellets.
Thanks!!!

Alfalfa pellets = Tractor Supply