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Seed Starting Indoors

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Post  Frank207 1/15/2022, 4:42 pm

This will be my first time starting some seeds indoors and I will be planting around 50+/- seeds for around 15 vegetables plants. My questions are:
                                                              1) When to start seeds Indoors? 
 I am currently comparing what Mel's SFG book  and  Johnny's Seeds Web site say about start dates for starting seeds indoors.  Mel's book says to start broccoli seeds 12 Weeks before last frost date and Johnny's Seeds Web site says 4-6 weeks?  This is a big difference and it's this way for most of the other vegetables I plan on planting.  Who should I believe?

                                                              2) Seed Starting Mix?
I was going to use Mel's mix but after reading some of the comments it doesn't sound like a good idea based on the compost being added. I was wondering if a 50/50 mix of peat moss and vermiculite would work?

                                                             3) Seed starting trays/containers/pellets etc.?
Because I have a small amount of seeds to plant and the germination period will be different for various plants, what might be my best alternative for planting the seeds in?  As I understand it grow lights( I'm planning to use one 4ft. two bulb shop light) won't be required until the seeds start to germinate.  Will I have to separate the plants that germinate from the ones that haven't and just put those under a light?


Thanks in advance
Frank
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Post  OhioGardener 1/15/2022, 6:11 pm

Frank207 wrote: 1) When to start seeds Indoors? 
 I am currently comparing what Mel's SFG book  and  Johnny's Seeds Web site say about start dates for starting seeds indoors.  Mel's book says to start broccoli seeds 12 Weeks before last frost date and Johnny's Seeds Web site says 4-6 weeks?  This is a big difference and it's this way for most of the other vegetables I plan on planting.  Who should I believe?

Cold hardy plants, such as broccoli, cabbages, etc., can be started early and transplanted several weeks before the last frost date (assuming they have been hardened off first), which allows them to be started much earlier than warm weather plants, such as tomato, pepper, eggplant, etc.

I personally start the cool weather plants 8 to 10 weeks before the last frost, and the warm weather plants 6 weeks before the last frost date.

2) Seed Starting Mix?
I was going to use Mel's mix but after reading some of the comments it doesn't sound like a good idea based on the compost being added. I was wondering if a 50/50 mix of peat moss and vermiculite would work?

You should use either a seed starting mix, or a home made one, not just peat and vermiculite.  If you use something similar to Mel's Mix using finely screened compost, it will work very well. But, a small bag of seed starter mix from one of the big box stores is inexpensive for a small number of seeds.

3) Seed starting trays/containers/pellets etc.?
Because I have a small amount of seeds to plant and the germination period will be different for various plants, what might be my best alternative for planting the seeds in?  As I understand it grow lights( I'm planning to use one 4ft. two bulb shop light) won't be required until the seeds start to germinate.  Will I have to separate the plants that germinate from the ones that haven't and just put those under a light?

The type of seed trays is mostly a personal preference. I don't like the pellet-type due to the nylon mesh on the, which never deteriorates. But, some people find them very handy.  I use Cowpots (similar to peat pots, but made of composted cow manure), because I like having individual planting pots that can be buried without disturbing the plant roots. Some seeds require light to germinate, so I put all seed starter trays under lights which are on for 15 hours a day.  I also use heat mats under the seed trays, and plastic dome covers over the seed trays to speed germination.

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Post  Simso 1/15/2022, 7:43 pm

I start out with a tray of seedling mix and throw a couple of pinches of two plant types i am after, then i transplant them into larger trays with regular potting mix this time around I am going to use the mels mix in the transplant trays

The aerogarden I modified to use two 22w fluorescent bulbs, so power consumption is low, i use the lights from the momment I throw the seeds in, the lights provide warmth to the soil, I have the lights on for 15hrs a day, so its something you need to factor in IMO if you are providing artificial lighting

Here leeks and lettuce, i grow a lot of lettuce as what we dont eat of goes to seed becomes feed for my chooks, i shove them everywhere

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Post  Simso 1/15/2022, 9:50 pm

Once thinned and  transplanted, this is what I have, i will leave it till next weekend and repeat process, any that did not survive transplant i will replant those squares with more from my seedling tray

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Post  OhioGardener 1/18/2022, 7:46 am

Frank207 wrote:This will be my first time starting some seeds indoors and I will be planting around 50+/- seeds for around 15 vegetables plants. My questions are:
                                                              1) When to start seeds Indoors? 
 I am currently comparing what Mel's SFG book  and  Johnny's Seeds Web site say about start dates for starting seeds indoors.  Mel's book says to start broccoli seeds 12 Weeks before last frost date and Johnny's Seeds Web site says 4-6 weeks?  This is a big difference and it's this way for most of the other vegetables I plan on planting.  Who should I believe?

The following quote from High Mowing Organic Seeds e-letter offers some good insight on this subject:

"As you send in your seed orders and put the finishing touches on your garden plans, we wanted to share some of our favorite crops for early spring sowing: early spring greens, roots, brassicas and alliums.  
 
While some early spring crops prefer to be direct seeded into the soil just before the last frost of spring, many can be started indoors somewhere between 6-10 weeks before this last spring frost. Transplanting these developing baby plants 2-3 weeks before last frost gives you a jump on the season and the advantage of earlier harvests down the road."

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Post  Frank207 1/18/2022, 4:12 pm

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.  I do have a another question regarding keeping the seeds/seedlings watered.  What has been your experience in this area?  Does a self watering wick system work?  Can you put the seed/seedling pots/pellets etc. directly onto a tray with say 1/4"  of water and let them sit in it or will they just suck up the water based on the container?  I tend to have a heavy hand when it comes to watering and I'm looking for some method to avoid this.

Thanks
Frank
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Post  donnainzone5 1/18/2022, 4:37 pm

Here's the system I use.

GrowEase Seed Starter Kit - Free Shipping | Gardener's Supply (gardeners.com)

It includes a capillary mat, which works quite well.
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Post  OhioGardener 1/18/2022, 4:42 pm

Frank207 wrote: I tend to have a heavy hand when it comes to watering and I'm looking for some method to avoid this.

Over watering will kill far more seedlings than under watering will. Damping off is a common symptom of too much water.  Don't let the seedlings set in water, and there is really no reason for a wicking system for the short time the seedlings are in the house.

Before planting the seeds in the pots, ensure the seeding mix is thoroughly damp - damp, not wet - and then place the seedling trays under cover to keep moisture constant until they germinate.  After the seeds germinate, water from the bottom, and only when the soil feels dry to the touch. Don't saturate the soil.

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Post  sanderson 1/18/2022, 4:49 pm

Every year, despite best intentions, it seems I start mine about 6 weeks before setting out in the garden. The only change I am trying to make this year is to start peppers 2 weeks before everything else as they take longer to sprout and grow large enough for planting.

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Post  OhioGardener 1/18/2022, 4:53 pm

sanderson wrote:The only change I am trying to make this year is to start peppers 2 weeks before everything else as they take longer to sprout and grow large enough for planting.

I did this last year, and it worked out much better than starting them at the same time as the tomatoes and egg plants. Will do it again this year, but I am going to plant less peppers this year.

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Post  sanderson 1/18/2022, 5:24 pm

Like OG stated.
1. Start with moist mix, cover until they sprout.  I have used Saran Wrap and the thin plastic bags from the dry cleaner/laundry. If the mix seems too dry, mist with a spray bottle. (Since I bought heating mats, germination has improved.)
2. Move sprouted cells out from under dome and place in seedling tray under lights.
3. Water these sprouts from the bottom of the tray only when the surface is dry.  Seeds send down roots before they pop their heads up.
4. Keep lights close to sprouts, raising as they grow.  This will prevent legginess.  One spring they had to stay indoors for an extra month due to the weather and lights were critical.

I steam bake wet Mel's Mix if it's used.  Yes, it's kind of sterile but the weed seeds and most critters are killed.  It also seems to reduce the incidence of surface mold and fungus gnats. Seed Starting Indoors Seedli35

Older photo of filling the reusable cups and even used 6/8 packs. Seed Starting Indoors Seedli34

Older photo without heating mats. Each cup and 6/8 pack has a label.  Very important!
Seed Starting Indoors Seedli36

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Post  Simso 1/18/2022, 5:59 pm

I have a couple of coke bottles i used a hot poker to put some holes into the cap, gives a very gentle water spray and does not knock the seedlings over.

I just water them each morning enough to make the top surface of the seed or potting mix look wet

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Post  Scorpio Rising 1/18/2022, 8:02 pm

Labeling.  I really need to get better at this!
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Post  markqz 1/21/2022, 1:06 pm

For the economically minded.

I start plants in vermiculite (like in the book), then transfer to seed cups made from yogurt containers with slits cut in the bottom (potting mix in containers).I find that transplanting from plastic containers works better than peat containers. You can use grease pencil to label the pots. I have a cardboard box lightbox to help the young seedlings, especially at this time of the year when the days are short and cloudy.

Despite having warm weather, I use this approach all year long. The bugs never freeze off here, so they tend to ravage plants started from seeds or even seedlings.

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Post  OhioGardener 1/21/2022, 3:19 pm

markqz wrote:I find that transplanting from plastic containers works better than peat containers.

Curious why you find that better.  The peat pots can be buried in the garden without disturbing the roots. That seems to be better for the transplant.

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Post  markqz 1/21/2022, 4:02 pm

OhioGardener wrote:
markqz wrote:I find that transplanting from plastic containers works better than peat containers.

Curious why you find that better.  The peat pots can be buried in the garden without disturbing the roots. That seems to be better for the transplant.

Probably because once the plant is in the ground, disturbed or not, the roots can immediately begin to propagate. Whereas they seem to have trouble breaking out of the peat pot. I just know that the plants do as well or better if I use the (free!) cups as opposed to the (not free Seed Starting Indoors 1f61f ) peat pots.

And, as I mentioned, the peat pots have to be watched like a hawk to make sure they don't dry out. That allows me to be slightly more lazy -- an important consideration  Seed Starting Indoors 1f609


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Post  OhioGardener 1/21/2022, 4:32 pm

markqz wrote:
Probably because once the plant is in the ground, disturbed or not, the roots can immediately begin to propagate. Whereas they seem to have trouble breaking out of the peat pot.

That makes sense.  I use the CowPots instead of peat, and the roots are usually growing through the pots before they get planted. Many years ago when I used peat pots, the next year there would still be pieces of the pots in the ground that never decomposed. After I switched to CowPots that was never an issue. Very Happy

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Post  Scorpio Rising 1/21/2022, 9:00 pm

The peat pots need to be trimmed down.  They cannot be above ground at all ever.  I tear them up into little pieces.


Last edited by Scorpio Rising on 1/21/2022, 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added)
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Post  Frank207 1/22/2022, 5:10 pm

markqz wrote:For the economically minded.

I start plants in vermiculite (like in the book), then transfer to seed cups made from yogurt containers with slits cut in the bottom (potting mix in containers).

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What size yogurt containers do you use?
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Post  markqz 1/22/2022, 8:53 pm

Frank207 wrote:
What size yogurt containers do you use?
Most of them are 75mm high, 65mm top diameter, and 55 mm bottom diameter.  That's about 3in, 2.5in, and 2 1/8 in. respectively in real numbers.

I also have a some that are about half that height (the cup on the right in the following image). I fill the tall cups about 3/4 full, and the small cups almost 100% full. I also have a few oval cups that I haven't found a use for.

A lot of yogurt manufactures apparently buy from the same cup vendor.

Most of the yogurts came from a grocery store outlet here called GTM. They buy the leftovers from other grocers like Whole Paycheck Foods and sell it at a fraction of the price. Like the batch of 12 in the fridge at the moment sold for $1.50, or 12.5c a piece.

Seed Starting Indoors FvdTn2P


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Post  sanderson 1/25/2022, 12:57 pm

In my photo above, you can see I also started off using yogurt cups. This photo is from February 2014, showing several yogurt cups supplementing my first order of plastic seed cups that fit the 10" x 20" seed tray at 32 in each. Seed Starting Indoors Seed_d11

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Post  Chuck d'Argy 2/1/2022, 12:03 am

By accident, we found that the 18 inch LED lights we bought for under cabinets worked miracles for our shamrock plant sitting on the countertop below it. For all I know it may slaughter seedlings. Anybody tried an LED light? I have a couple of 4 footers laying around too.
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Post  markqz 2/1/2022, 10:30 am

Chuck d'Argy wrote:By accident, we found that the 18 inch LED lights we bought for under cabinets worked miracles for our shamrock plant sitting on the countertop below it. For all I know it may slaughter seedlings. Anybody tried an LED light? I have a couple of 4 footers laying around too.
I kind of doubt it would slaughter seedlings, though it may starve them. The human eye is very bad at judging brightness -- our iris dilates or contracts so quickly that we don't realize how much darker it is inside than out. It turns out that you can use a smartphone as a light meter (with an app). Not as precise as a $200 custom meter, but likely good enough for home use. I have a single grow light, and what I found was that directly under the light, only inches away, it was about as bright as a very overcast early morning (about 4000 lux).

Oh, I did try to use a regular LED work light on one of my bed's. But I didn't know what I was doing. The light was too underpowered and too far from the plants. Now if I were to do it again, I'd station it directly above a square or two, and only inches from the plants.
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Post  OhioGardener 2/1/2022, 12:37 pm

I use 48" LED tubes in regular shop lights suspended from shelves so that I can lower or raise the lights to keep them within 3" above the seedlings. The important thing about LED lights for seed starting is to ensure the light's Kevin rating is around 6500K (bright white).  Note: I had to modify the shop lights to remove the ballast since the LED tubes don't use it - fortunately, for an electrical engineer, that wasn't a problem.

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Post  Chuck d'Argy 2/1/2022, 2:00 pm

Thanks!!!
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