Re: More on Azomite

Cincinnati 3/21/2013, 8:37 pm

1-2 pounds per square feet is a small modification, but if it results in bumper crops, yeehaw!

That application seems excessive to me so I checked and it is a bit less that is recommended....

.... 1-2lbs per 10sqft.
And yeah, it's NOT an N-P-K source, it's all the micros (selenium, etc).

I used it last year in my earthboxes and in my SQFT raised beds. About 1 TBL per sq ft - (2 TBL Spoons/earthbox w/2 tomato plants / box).

Doesn't really improve yield just taste. With my compost changing with each batch, it's hard to tell how much is from the Azomite and how much from the compost. I'll use it again this year. However, you generally don't want to add too many supplements without knowing the condition of your MM. It can become toxic in a hurry. This goes for lime as well. I keep running soil nutrient tests.

**camprn** 3/21/2013, 8:45 pm

Cincinnati wrote:
1-2 pounds per square feet is a small modification, but if it results in bumper crops, yeehaw!

That application seems excessive to me so I checked and it is a bit less that is recommended....

.... 1-2lbs per 10sqft.
And yeah, it's NOT an N-P-K source, it's all the micros (selenium, etc).

I used it last year in my earthboxes and in my SQFT raised beds. About 1 TBL per sq ft - (2 TBL Spoons/earthbox w/2 tomato plants / box).

Doesn't really improve yield just taste. With my compost changing with each batch, it's hard to tell how much is from the Azomite and how much from the compost. I'll use it again this year. However, you generally don't want to add too many supplements without knowing the condition of your MM. It can become toxic in a hurry. This goes for lime as well. I keep running soil nutrient tests.

+1

jazzycat 3/21/2013, 9:01 pm

So for someone who is just building their beds, how much would we add in creating MM? I was at the hydroponics store today and he had bags of it sitting outside, along with a bunch of other stuff. Apparently (from reading the posts here) not a lot is needed, but I would really like to get all the trace minerals in my mix. I was also wondering about mycorrhiza. Would that be considered part of the compost, or an added extra something?

**camprn** 3/21/2013, 9:11 pm

The recipe for Mel's Mix is 1/3 fluffed sphagnum peat, 1/3 vermiculite, either coarse or medium and 1/3 compost blend, made of at least 5 different sources of compost.

For mycorrhiza, if you have some native fertile soil, a few handsfull tossed into the bed would probably seed the bed well enough. I keep my compost pile on the ground so I presume that is how it gets into my garden.

FamilyGardening 3/21/2013, 9:20 pm

Cincinnati wrote:
1-2 pounds per square feet is a small modification, but if it results in bumper crops, yeehaw!

That application seems excessive to me so I checked and it is a bit less that is recommended....

.... 1-2lbs per 10sqft.
And yeah, it's NOT an N-P-K source, it's all the micros (selenium, etc).

I used it last year in my earthboxes and in my SQFT raised beds. About 1 TBL per sq ft - (2 TBL Spoons/earthbox w/2 tomato plants / box).

Doesn't really improve yield just taste. With my compost changing with each batch, it's hard to tell how much is from the Azomite and how much from the compost. I'll use it again this year. However, you generally don't want to add too many supplements without knowing the condition of your MM. It can become toxic in a hurry. This goes for lime as well. I keep running soil nutrient tests.

*It can become toxic in a hurry* could you explain more about what you mean about the MM becoming toxic using Azomite?

thanks
Rose

**RoOsTeR** 3/21/2013, 9:21 pm

What is a bit concerning to me and one of Mel's concerns as well, is that folks who have never gardened before or this being their first year, are already thinking their Mel's Mix is off or missing something and ready to start dumping things in to correct it and further complicate things.

jazzycat 3/21/2013, 9:49 pm

I don't necessarily think it's missing something, but he does say to get a number of different elements to add in, 5 different composts, vermiculite and peat moss. Why is it wrong to want to add in some mineral content to make sure you're getting all the trace elements? One of the problems with the food supply today is the vitamin and mineral content is nonexistent, because the soil has been robbed and depleted from bad farming practices, with people using only the three main nutrients that plants need.

Can either the azomite or the mycorrhiza be counted as part of the compost?

**RoOsTeR** 3/21/2013, 10:01 pm

For one thing you're not using soil if you're using Mel's Mix. If made correctly, there's no need to add anything else. You're right it may not hurt anything, but the method is made to be simple and uncomplicated. I just always find it interesting when folks are so eager to add to something that they've not really tried before and have no base to compare to.

Lindacol 3/21/2013, 10:26 pm

jazzycat wrote:I don't necessarily think it's missing something, but he does say to get a number of different elements to add in, 5 different composts, vermiculite and peat moss. Why is it wrong to want to add in some mineral content to make sure you're getting all the trace elements? One of the problems with the food supply today is the vitamin and mineral content is nonexistent, because the soil has been robbed and depleted from bad farming practices, with people using only the three main nutrients that plants need.

Can either the azomite or the mycorrhiza be counted as part of the compost?

It's not wrong, it's just not necessary. From what I understand most of the minerals in Azomite are trace minerals, minerals needed in very small amounts. A good blended compost should contain what is needed. Large amounts of some of these minerals can throw the balance of minerals off.
That said, I too am tempted to try it in small amounts but my SFG has done extremely well for 2+ yrs without it.

Linda

FamilyGardening 3/21/2013, 10:59 pm

Did I imagine it or did Mel or someone from the foundation comment somewhere on the forum about using Azomite and/or Mycorrhiza wanting those who are tyring it to keep a log on it and letting them know how it does.

That they too may work with them in their test labs to see if they too can improve on Mel’s Mix?

Did anyone else read something like that? ...or did i miss-read something.....

I have looked back at Mel’s soap box and such because I thought I had read it in one of those threads.

Happy gardening
rose

**llama momma** 3/21/2013, 11:52 pm

Yes you are right, I read the same thing somewhere.

**Turan** 3/21/2013, 11:59 pm

https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t14791-my-interesting-saturday-morning-with-an-ag-scientist

Maybe this is what you are remembering about Mel and azomite?

Triciasgarden 3/22/2013, 12:31 am

RoOsTeR wrote:What is a bit concerning to me and one of Mel's concerns as well, is that folks who have never gardened before or this being their first year, are already thinking their Mel's Mix is off or missing something and ready to start dumping things in to correct it and further complicate things.

I agree with this. The most important thing is to make your own compost, use a wide variety of ingredients when making it and you should have a very nutrient rich compost!

When I went back to sq. ft. gardening about three years ago, I made my mix using the old method from many years ago because I did not know of the newer way. Also, last year and the year before ferrel cats (more than nine) were using my beds as their pooping stations. I am now faced with what to do because I know my mix is not that great. My big plans were to change it all out and mix it the right way and move what was in the beds to other areas of my yard. I have four compost piles going that haven't done much this Winter. I think I will probably need to make more but I haven't calculated yet what I need. I am wanting to plant Spring crops but I have a badly sprained ankle. I don't know when I will get to changing out the beds at this point. I don't want to waste Spring planting time and then Summer will come. I am feeling at this point that my only choice is to supplement with something and Azomite seems like it may foot the bill at a reasonable cost. Then maybe in the Fall my compost will be done and I can mix up enough mm to do it right.

brainchasm 3/22/2013, 12:50 am

RoOsTeR wrote:What is a bit concerning to me and one of Mel's concerns as well, is that folks who have never gardened before or this being their first year, are already thinking their Mel's Mix is off or missing something and ready to start dumping things in to correct it and further complicate things.

The reasons I as a first year am doing Azomite are two-fold:

I've seen the difference. It works. I haven't tasted the difference yet, so I am doing it to my own stuff,

but more at the core of my choice is because I had to go all bagged composts this first year, as I had made none yet. Obviously I trust those composts to a point, or I wouldn't have bought them (and there were some that I wouldn't buy!), but there's trust, and there's faith, and I don't have full faith in those bagged composts, so I am doing what I can to make sure I have the best chance at success.

FamilyGardening 3/22/2013, 1:14 am

Turan wrote:https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t14791-my-interesting-saturday-morning-with-an-ag-scientist

Maybe this is what you are remembering about Mel and azomite?

yes Turan....thank you!

Quote from the link above that Turan provided:

Mel Wrote

Those are all great ideas and testing will certainly help us decide if those other added ingredients are worthwhile and actually necessary. If so, the idea of a regular Mel's Mix to start with, with a super charged one, or special additives, for those that want advanced soil technology, they would possibly make an excellent product.

Are they needed for the average gardener? No. But they would be advantageous for the advanced "gotta get the most out of what I have" type of gardener. We will have our soil company do some experiments and if any of you trying some of these advanced additives would share with us your results, we might be able to come up with an even better addition to the SFG method.

happy gardening
rose

jazzycat 3/22/2013, 9:25 pm

brainchasm wrote:
RoOsTeR wrote:What is a bit concerning to me and one of Mel's concerns as well, is that folks who have never gardened before or this being their first year, are already thinking their Mel's Mix is off or missing something and ready to start dumping things in to correct it and further complicate things.
The reasons I as a first year am doing Azomite are two-fold:

I've seen the difference. It works. I haven't tasted the difference yet, so I am doing it to my own stuff,

but more at the core of my choice is because I had to go all bagged composts this first year, as I had made none yet. Obviously I trust those composts to a point, or I wouldn't have bought them (and there were some that I wouldn't buy!), but there's trust, and there's faith, and I don't have full faith in those bagged composts, so I am doing what I can to make sure I have the best chance at success.

This is my thought as well. It's my first year, I'm only just now beginning to compost, so I will have to buy everything bagged. I want as much diversity as possible and as many nutrients as possible. I have a chronic illness, so I desperately need all those vitamins and minerals, and frankly, after reading a lot of stuff about the quality of bagged compost, I think adding something like Azomite would be the smart thing to do. I'm not dissing Mel or his mix, and if I had my own compost, or knew where I could get some really good compost, I might not think twice about. But numerous people here have also said, from experience, that it works, so why not?

mrmikechan 5/16/2013, 6:03 pm

I thought I share this website that I came across today and purchased my Azomite. The price is quite reasonable and they have free shipping too!

OK.. this is annoying new members cant post external links... so OK I am going to add spaces to address listed below. Just remove the extra spaces:

h t t p : / / www . kelp4less . com / product - category / azomite

There is also a coupon code "GREENTHUMB" that you can use to get 10% off your order. For me I just purchased a 20lb bag of Azomite powder for $24.95 and with the 10% off, I paid $22.45. I did not have to pay any shipping cost either!

Hope that helps someone that has been looking for Azomite and can't source any locally!

Mike

**llama momma** 5/16/2013, 6:57 pm

My worm bins receive azomite from time to time, as if worm castings weren't already good stuff.. If I supercharge those little guys and their castings, it seems the garden should benefit and so do I. But is this necessary? Honestly, I don't know because the home made backyard compost alone has been quite fine so far. Compost rules! It is great fun to explore though.

mrmikechan 5/17/2013, 12:36 am

llama momma wrote:My worm bins receive azomite from time to time, as if worm castings weren't already good stuff.. If I supercharge those little guys and their castings, it seems the garden should benefit and so do I. But is this necessary? Honestly, I don't know because the home made backyard compost alone has been quite fine so far. Compost rules! It is great fun to explore though.

I have been looking into worm castings but my brother in law told me that the consistancy of the worm castings he saw from the nursery store looked like and felt like clay. Is that what worm castings is like when they get wet? I thought they were suppose to be light and keep the soil light and loose in addition to providing the nutrition for the plants. So I have second thoughts about worm castings now. I just created my second raised bed and my first time using Mel's mix for the soil. I planted my seeds and tomato plants and dusted the soil with some Azomite. I am curious as to how well the transplants will do.

**llama momma** 5/17/2013, 4:23 am

I'm no expert but I can say from personal experience fresh castings or vermicompost is moist. Everything I read says worm castings are terrific, but just like buying bagged compost the big question is quality. I've have worm bins for a year and a half. Based on information I've come across, fresh castings/vermicompost should be used within 6 months or so and be kept moist to keep beneficial microorganisms from dying. Some though will form a cyst and survive dry conditions. How do you judge the quality of a bag on a store shelf is a real head scratcher. I suppose one could look up the manufacturer online and search for answers.

**llama momma** 5/17/2013, 5:29 am

This post is a continuation of the prior post..

I have not heard of using castings to specifically keep the soil light and loose, as you mentioned earlier. Maybe it does. We count on vermiculite to be a big help there. The properties in castings are believed to behave very similar to plant hormones, stimulate plant growth, help plants uptake nutrients, overall more lush growth and a healthier plant that is able to fight off disease and insect attacks.

southern gardener 6/11/2013, 4:09 pm

bnoles wrote:I have been reading and hearing good things about Azomite and added it to my beds at the time I filled them. I figured it couldn't hurt and maybe would help in some ways to the benefits of Mel's mix.

Okay, now I feel better after making my confession

Bob...have you noticed the Azomite improved your soil? I've been reading up on it...sounds really interesting, and makes a lot of sense!! Where did you get it?

bnoles 6/11/2013, 4:57 pm

southern gardener wrote:
bnoles wrote:I have been reading and hearing good things about Azomite and added it to my beds at the time I filled them. I figured it couldn't hurt and maybe would help in some ways to the benefits of Mel's mix.

Okay, now I feel better after making my confession

Bob...have you noticed the Azomite improved your soil? I've been reading up on it...sounds really interesting, and makes a lot of sense!! Where did you get it?

Hi SG, I am not certain I have observed any noticeable difference, but I am hoping my veggies have a little more good things for my body. I really have nothing to compare it to in the way of a model without the rock dust.

IIRC ordered it from here: http://www.kelp4less.com/shop/azomite/
Sign up for their emails and watch for a 20% off coupon.

southern gardener 6/11/2013, 5:38 pm

bnoles wrote:
southern gardener wrote:
bnoles wrote:I have been reading and hearing good things about Azomite and added it to my beds at the time I filled them. I figured it couldn't hurt and maybe would help in some ways to the benefits of Mel's mix.

Okay, now I feel better after making my confession

Bob...have you noticed the Azomite improved your soil? I've been reading up on it...sounds really interesting, and makes a lot of sense!! Where did you get it?

Hi SG, I am not certain I have observed any noticeable difference, but I am hoping my veggies have a little more good things for my body. I really have nothing to compare it to in the way of a model without the rock dust.

IIRC ordered it from here: http://www.kelp4less.com/shop/azomite/
Sign up for their emails and watch for a 20% off coupon.

Done.........now I'm a sinner like you! hahaha!! remember your earlier post? i figure it's not going to hurt anything in my SFG soil, and some of my stuff seems to be lagging a tad. Thanks for the info and update!!

EricS 7/7/2013, 12:36 am

I've read pros and cons for using azomite (mostly pros) so I think I'm going to add it to my new SFG in the initial batch of Mels Mix I'm putting together. I mentioned this on another post but I wanted to ask specifically about the azomite.

All the advice is geared toward how much azomite to use per square foot. But when filling a raised bed I'm dealing with cubic feet. My bed is about 36 cu. ft.

I'm inclined to just mix in a 10 lb bag. Thoughts?

Some people have talked about azomite improving the taste. I'm hoping it does. It reminds me of an experience when I was a young teen. I visited my grandparents in North Dakota for the summer, where we ate vegetables from their large garden. When I returned to California I found the grocery store vegies tasted bad. Especially potatoes- even Idaho potatoes- I couldn't even eat them for a while. My grandfather told me that its because the soil on their farm isn't irrigated, while the commercial farms are and that the irrigation washes away the minerals.

So anyway, thats what I'm hoping for!

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