Whole Wheat Bread

Lavender Debs wrote:) Is that whole wheat dough is usually under kneaded and over floured. The undeveloped gluten is sticky and makes bricks until the magic starts to happen. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, It should have the feel of a baby's behind when lightly slapped and be the color of fair skin with lots of freckles. Once you get to this point the gluten is developed and will make a surprisingly light loaf.....though it will never be wonder bread.

Save the gluten flour for ww bread machine loaves.
Debs.....an old hippy who still does bread

Yup.

Rather than lots of kneading I make a nice wet sticky sponge and leave it alone in a warm spot for an hour or so. When I come back it just needs a little flour and other ingrediants to finish it off and some finishing kneading. Then another rest. I like the hot crock to bake in, but also just making loafs in pans and putting them into a hot oven. That steam rising thing really works wonders too.

I wore out my Kitchen Aid kneading bread dough a number of years back. Now they tell me I should not eat gluten so I stopped making bread. I miss hot from the oven bread for dinner.

Lavender Debs wrote:I just have a moment before school, so no recipe. But what I've learned (Laurel’s Kitchen Bread Book) Is that whole wheat dough is usually under kneaded and over floured. The undeveloped gluten is sticky and makes bricks until the magic starts to happen. Use a scraper (keeps one hand clean) and knead through the sticky. Sometimes it takes 20 minutes. The dough will go from a muddy looking lump to an elastic, smooth (ie not sticky) round of dough. It should have the feel of a baby's behind when lightly slapped and be the color of fair skin with lots of freckles. Once you get to this point the gluten is developed and will make a surprisingly light loaf.....though it will never be wonder bread.

Okay, I made the Dave's Killer Whole Wheat Bread recipe yesterday. I have hard white wheat that I ground fresh using the medium setting on the mill (since that's what my King Arthur Whole Grain baking book says they do with their wheat). While the bread rose well and tastes fine, the texture is still not what I'm looking for. But I don't know if that could change depending on if the dough was over or under kneaded. I used my KitchenAid professional 5 qt. stand mixer to knead the dough, and after twenty minutes the dough was still sticky and in fact began to look like it was getting stickier (I'm thinking from getting too warm from being kneaded so much?). I finally gave up since I was able to kind of get a "window pane". What I'm wondering is this:

How do you know whether the dough is still sticky because it hasn't been kneaded long enough, or if it's because you haven't added enough flour?

Here's a picture of one loaf, and what's left of the second:

And here's a close up so you can try to see the texture of the bread:

I would try another batch with the wheat milled just a bit finer. That will make a difference in texture. The stickiness may also have to do with your humidity. When I made mine I had to actually add several tsp of water as my dough was way too dry. You could try holding back some of the water and adding it a spoon until you get the consistency you want.

GG

gardenertaylor wrote:Petunia . . . are you referring to the No Knead bread? I noticed the "forgiving" reference. It is simply divine, isn't it?

Just wondering gardener, have you ever used your no knead bread to make pizza crust? If not I hope you will try it. It is just as good as the bread of course, and hands down, the best pizza crust ever.
Thanks again.

Really???? I've never tried that! Pizza crust? Huh. Do you bake it first, then put on the toppings? Or do you just put the toppings on the dough and bake it?

gardenertaylor wrote:Really???? I've never tried that! Pizza crust? Huh. Do you bake it first, then put on the toppings? Or do you just put the toppings on the dough and bake it?

you make the dough, let it rise an hour and then form it into the pizza shape. I let it rise again for about 20 minutes, then put your sauce and cheese and toppings and into a hot oven (450F) for about 20 minutes. Viola pizza. In fact i've just made some! YUMMMMMMM!

camprn wrote:

gardenertaylor wrote:Really???? I've never tried that! Pizza crust? Huh. Do you bake it first, then put on the toppings? Or do you just put the toppings on the dough and bake it?

you make the dough, let it rise an hour and then form it into the pizza shape. I let it rise again for about 20 minutes, then put your sauce and cheese and toppings and into a hot oven (450F) for about 20 minutes. Viola pizza. In fact i've just made some! YUMMMMMMM!

I didn't let mine rise long, first time try so I didn't know to do that. I like a thin crispy crust, not bready, so I decided to try this. Like camprn said, just put your faves on and pop it into a 450 oven. I don't know how long I cooked it, just kept eyeballing it till it looked like I like. It's good!

petunia52 wrote:I just pulled my first loaf out of the oven about 20 min ago and OMG it is so good. I love the texture of the perfect inside, crusty brown outside, amazing taste. My yeast was the jar of Red Star Active Dry, not even fast acting and the bread is amazing!!! I guess it really is "forgiving".

Petunia,

Did you make this with 100% whole wheat flour, white, or a combination?

@gwennifer
Petunia,

Did you make this with 100% whole wheat flour, white, or a combination?[/quote]

Oh dear, I cut and pasted the recipe from ingredients down and forgot I read to replace whole wheat for part or all of the flour. I just used unbleached white. I am making another one this afternoon (can't keep enough in the house) so I will do 2 loaves, one all wheat, one 1/2 wheat. Now I am really anxious to see if there is any significant difference. Will let you know tomorrow. I'm glad you brought this up because when we buy bread it is only wheat.

petunia52 wrote:@gwennifer
Petunia,

Did you make this with 100% whole wheat flour, white, or a combination?

I did bake the 2 loaves of wheat no knead bread yesterday and they turned out OK. By OK I mean the taste as the bread itself was great! Keep in mind that this is just myyyy opinion so take it with a grain of salt. True to my usual self, I still REALLY like the white, the unhealthiest one, the best. But the next best was the 1/2 wheat 1/2 white and then the 100% whole wheat would take some adjusting to (for me anyway). I did make toast this morning out of the 100% wheat and added butter and jelly to make it more palatable.

Petunia, you're a doll for trying it out and following up. I'm afraid to try it either way myself since the directions say to "Let dough rest at least 12 hours, preferably about 18, at warm room temperature, about 70 degrees." Nowhere in my house is that warm this time of year. I had to use the pot-of-boiling-water-in-the-oven trick for the Dave's bread so it could rise for 45 minutes. That wouldn't work for 12 to 18 hours!

BTW, In another week or so I'm going to try another batch of the Dave's bread. I'm sure it wasn't the degree of coarseness of the flour I ground that was the problem, but adding the extra flour at the end. I found this on the King Arthur Flour blog about kneading whole wheat bread dough:

Up to a certain point, the stickier/softer your dough, the higher it’ll rise. Resist the urge to keep adding flour to sticky dough; in the long run, you do yourself a favor by simply putting up with a certain amount of stickiness.

How sticky is TOO sticky? If you shape the dough into a log and it slowly starts to flatten into a pancake, that’s too sticky. It can relax a bit, like someone settling into a chair; but it shouldn't flatten out.

If you follow the above link to the blog, you'll find their most popular recipe, which is for 100% whole wheat bread, including step-by-step photo instructions. Going to try that one too.

@gwennifer,
I am not computer savvy so please let me know if this link works.

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/no-knead-100-whole-wheat-bread-recipe

It is for the No-Knead 100% Whole Wheat Bread that is on the back of the King Arthur Premium bag. I want to try this one as well as maybe the sweetener will improve the taste for me. I was wanting to try this one and now the link you sent looks so perfect I have to try that one as well. I really prefer homemade but have not made it in years!!! So good to be back to baking bread.
Thanks for the link.

@gwennifer,
Oh and thanks for the handy tips as well. That explains a lot.

I now have enough whole wheat bread to last till the next
presidential election. Thanks to all of the great people who
answered my question on what is a good recipe. I have
learned so much on technique of preparation that I can't
say thanks enough. I think I have made at least 10 different
ones. I think the three most important tips are add some
bread flower, need enough to develop the gluton and don't
add too much flour(let it be a little sticky). Again many
thanks.
Luke Allen

Petunia, the link works fine. Wow, a no knead bread that only needs to rise for an hour. Gotta try that one too!

Luke, do you have a favorite so far?

FYI, for anyone who lives near a Bi-Mart: They are currently selling their 5lb bags of King Arthur flour (any type) for just $1.88. I believe the sale price is through the 11th.

Gwennifer, I have not gone through all of the offerings yet
but so far I think that I will like the ones with some bread
flour in them. All though I still have not gone through all of
the recipes with all whole wheat flour I have not found one
with the attributes that I am looking for. Still looking for that
one. Mabe I am expecting too much. Again thanks to everybody.
I wish that I could get some of that King Arthur for $1.88, I just
paid $3.25.
Luke