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Mary Mary quite contrary, how does your garlic grow? - Page 21 Toplef10Mary Mary quite contrary, how does your garlic grow? - Page 21 1zd3ho10

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.

Mary Mary quite contrary, how does your garlic grow? - Page 21 I22gcj10Mary Mary quite contrary, how does your garlic grow? - Page 21 14dhcg10

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Mary Mary quite contrary, how does your garlic grow?

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Post  greatgranny 7/4/2014, 9:41 am

Think I'm beginning to agree with rotation.  I have hardneck garlic and the scapes were plentiful and harvested.  I pulled one today that was ready and it has no cloves.  I am hoping that the rest will but who knows until it's time to pull. 

My question is this - the ones that have no cloves, can they be planted in the late fall or should I just say it's a wash and use them as is?
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Post  Dunkinjean 7/4/2014, 1:37 pm

Just pulled all of my three types of garlic this past Saturday before our trip North.

Grew Late Italian, Polish White and Red Russian. The Polish and Russian were the 1st time I grew them and I had a great harvest!

At this time they are curing at home and brought a few with me to North NY to cure there. We go home on Mon. for 1week (bringing 6yr old grandson for visit with us) and then bring him back North for his brother's 2yr birthday!

I can't wait to get home to check on my gardens!!
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Post  CapeCoddess 7/4/2014, 6:39 pm

greatgranny wrote:Think I'm beginning to agree with rotation.  I have hardneck garlic and the scapes were plentiful and harvested.  I pulled one today that was ready and it has no cloves.  I am hoping that the rest will but who knows until it's time to pull. 

My question is this - the ones that have no cloves, can they be planted in the late fall or should I just say it's a wash and use them as is?

The garlic I pulled last year that didn't form cloves I used as is. They were pretty tasty actually. I did not replant them. Meanwhile I'm supposed to be pulling my garlic today. But now we're having a partial hurricane so they may get soaked. Guess I'll wait another week or so and let them dry out before I lift them.

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Post  Nonna.PapaVino 7/4/2014, 10:07 pm

GreatGranny, from where did you get the starts for your garlic?  Were they from a fully mature head that was divided into several cloves?  Did you select just the largest cloves to plant?  I ask because: When I plant immature cloves from my garlics (the tiniest cloves), what I get the next year is a single large bulb.  That bulb, planted in the fall in good soil, will usually give me a regular, but small, bulb with divisions into cloves.  But, when I plant in Mel's Mix a single large clove from a big, fully mature bulb from, say, Fillaree Farms, I get another big, fully mature bulb the following summer (here in Oregon garlic usually is ready for harvest around Fourth of July--sometimes earlier, sometimes a bit later).  this year's harvest is earlier, and most of our garlic is drying under cover in the gazebo.  Heads not as big as last year's, though--response to weather, I'd guess.  Nonna
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Post  camprn 7/5/2014, 6:56 am

Good info nonna! My garlic is being slow. I want to lift it soon as I need the bed for other things. I hope it's ready within the week.

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Post  greatgranny 7/5/2014, 12:37 pm

Nonna.PapaVino wrote:GreatGranny, from where did you get the starts for your garlic?  Were they from a fully mature head that was divided into several cloves?  Did you select just the largest cloves to plant?  I ask because: When I plant immature cloves from my garlics (the tiniest cloves), what I get the next year is a single large bulb.  That bulb, planted in the fall in good soil, will usually give me a regular, but small, bulb with divisions into cloves.  But, when I plant in Mel's Mix a single large clove from a big, fully mature bulb from, say, Fillaree Farms, I get another big, fully mature bulb the following summer (here in Oregon garlic usually is ready for harvest around Fourth of July--sometimes earlier, sometimes a bit later).  this year's harvest is earlier, and most of our garlic is drying under cover in the gazebo.  Heads not as big as last year's, though--response to weather, I'd guess.  Nonna
I had the starts from last years crop which did very well - yes, large cloves.  Actually this year the scapes were better than the year before.  I am wondering if the cool weather and the overabundance of rain could be part of the reason.  I originally purchased the starts from Southern Exposure Seed Exchange in 2012.  Would the fact that I planted them in the same location also contribute to the issue?
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Post  Nonna.PapaVino 7/5/2014, 5:38 pm

Planting any crop in the same place as it grew the previous year is not good: plants from Year 1 take their choice of nutrients; Year 2 plants get the leftovers, plus any disease that may have been transferred to the soil by Year 1 plants.  In our square foot blocks, we can sometimes add enough blended composts to replace nutrients used by the occupants of the blocks the previous year, but it's wiser to plant a totally different type of plant in said block in following year.  Crop rotation, you know: bean/pea family in area where heavy feeders (like corn) was last, etc.  Having said all that, I have found an extra dose of vermiculite along with composts and some bone and kelp meals really seems to help grow large garlic heads.  Makes a good side dressing for garlic plants come late May, too.  Nonna
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Post  greatgranny 7/5/2014, 6:38 pm

Noona, thanks.  I have put your advice in my notebook for this fall.
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Post  Nonna.PapaVino 7/6/2014, 12:26 pm

Like many others on this forum, we had too much rain in June, and I noted some garlic stalks' leaves dying off before the heads were fully formed.  When pulled, it was evident some fungus had attacked the plants forming a ring right above the heads (botrytis?).  These I threw in the burning pile.  In an experiment to save the remaining plants, I carefully pulled the soil (MM) from around the necks of the still-maturing garlic heads, and filled the space with vermiculite.  These plants (St. Helens Red) have continued to mature.  The test plants I've pulled in the three-week experiment have remained fungus free.  The plant I pulled this morning is very, very close to the size/maturity I've come to expect of this strain, will pull the rest of them at the end of the week.  Nonna, breathing a sigh of relief.
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Post  CapeCoddess 7/6/2014, 1:50 pm

Thanks for sharing that experiment, Nonna. That's a good thing to have in mind in case one ever comes across it.

I have an issue that I was wondering if you, or anyone else, can help me with. Many of my California soft necks have sprouted bulbils about an inch or so above the soil line causing the plant to keel over above them. Have you experienced this? Is it preventable or is it just part of what this particular strain does? the couple that I harvested are so tiny. Since the tops of most have remained green I'm leaving them in until they're ready to lift. Does that seem right?

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Post  greatgranny 7/6/2014, 2:18 pm

Nonna.PapaVino wrote:Like many others on this forum, we had too much rain in June, and I noted some garlic stalks' leaves dying off before the heads were fully formed.  When pulled, it was evident some fungus had attacked the plants forming a ring right above the heads (botrytis?).  These I threw in the burning pile.  In an experiment to save the remaining plants, I carefully pulled the soil (MM) from around the necks of the still-maturing garlic heads, and filled the space with vermiculite.  These plants (St. Helens Red) have continued to mature.  The test plants I've pulled in the three-week experiment have remained fungus free.  The plant I pulled this morning is very, very close to the size/maturity I've come to expect of this strain, will pull the rest of them at the end of the week.  Nonna, breathing a sigh of relief.
What does the vermiculite do? Just curious.
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Post  Nonna.PapaVino 7/6/2014, 5:42 pm

1. CapeGoddess, stress can cause some softneck varieties to suddenly begin producing bulbils, usually on a short stalk.  Chet's Italian has done this in our garden, though just some, not all, the plants in a block.  It may be a desperate effort to produce more progeny.  Or, it may mean you really don't have California softnecks, but a variety like one of our new types from Filaree Farms, Japanese (an Asiatic garlic), which made big, early bulbs with fat bulbils about 4 inches up from the heads--the top fell over like you describe.  

2.  GreatGranny, I suspect the vermiculite collaring the top of the garlic heads rendered the stem dryer and less susceptible to the fungus that attacked some garlic plants in the same 4x4 bed.  Needless to say, this bed will NOT be planted to garlic for at least 5-6 years, if ever.  

Does this help?  Nonna
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Post  Marc Iverson 7/6/2014, 5:52 pm

I bet it also kept the soil lighter and looser, which garlic really likes, right?
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Post  Nonna.PapaVino 7/6/2014, 6:05 pm

Marc, I believe you are correct.  There have been times since building my first "soil-less" beds from MM that garlic seems to grow too verdantly.  Also, Mel's Mix does indeed hold more moisture.  The "test" garlics I pulled the past 3 weeks have not dried some and been culinary tested.  They tasted fine.  Nonna
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Post  greatgranny 7/6/2014, 6:32 pm

I harvested another one today and it has cloves.  Not as large as I like but...  No sign of a fungus.  So, I think I am going to see how the rest turn out and if they are healthy and have cloves I will re-plant in the fall but in a new area.  Noona, thanks for all of your advice.
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Post  Nonna.PapaVino 7/6/2014, 7:37 pm

GreatGranny, should you decide to purchase garlic for planting, I hear Music is an excellent variety for your state.  I know it does well a few miles north in Canada.  Nonna
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Post  greatgranny 7/6/2014, 9:05 pm

Nonna.PapaVino wrote:GreatGranny, should you decide to purchase garlic for planting, I hear Music is an excellent variety for your state.  I know it does well a few miles north in Canada.  Nonna
Thanks.  I found it on Southern Exposure.  I will maybe wait and see how my harvest looks overall.  I have only pulled 2 so far.
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Post  Nonna.PapaVino 7/6/2014, 9:41 pm

GreatGranny, it makes me curious: what kind of garlic are you growing?  Nonna
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Post  greatgranny 7/6/2014, 10:57 pm

Nonna.PapaVino wrote:GreatGranny, it makes me curious: what kind of garlic are you growing?  Nonna
I have German Extra-Hardy Hardneck from Southern Exposure.  This is the second year.  Now that I have learned my lesson, I will definitely rotate it.
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Post  donnainzone5 7/13/2014, 5:43 pm

Here's a pic or two of this weekend's garlic harvest.

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Post  southern gardener 7/13/2014, 5:55 pm

donnainzone10 wrote:Here's a pic or two of this weekend's garlic harvest.

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Post  Marc Iverson 7/13/2014, 8:19 pm

I'm not going to deal with facebook just to see a picture. Oh well.
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Post  camprn 7/13/2014, 8:46 pm

Bad link or privacy settings are not public.

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Post  donnainzone5 7/13/2014, 8:54 pm

I'm still having trouble posting pictures....
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Post  camprn 7/13/2014, 9:17 pm

donnainzone10 wrote:I'm still having trouble posting pictures....
donna, go to fb, right click on your photo, open in a new tab. Copy the Address of the photo & post here as normal. That's the way I do it.

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