CEDAR FRAMES

deriter 1/30/2012, 6:17 pm

Well I guess I must say that I am somewhat a little less than impressed with my cedar boards that I purchased for making a raised bed. I had put this raised bed together two years ago and used cedar because I heard it was more rot resistant. So I was going to modify them (cut to 4' lengths) today and noticed that some of them are already giving sign that they are already starting to rot. Now they are still pretty solid but I was thinking they would last several years without showing rot. I believe they will still last for a few more years yet. But for what I paid for the cedar, I am thinking maybe I should just get pine and just replace as needed.

How long should I expect cedar to last and how long would untreated pine last in an Iowa climate? Any of you have a lot of experience with this and have advise on which to use?

Am I being unrealistic to expect more than this?

deriter 1/30/2012, 6:30 pm

Could someone please move this to the SFG Talk - General Discussions post. I don't know what happened but I didn't mean for it to go here.
Sorry.

Noie 1/30/2012, 11:25 pm

Well, I'm not sure about in Iowa, but here in Oregon, I was using pine 2x4s for landscaping. They rotted through in a bit less than three years. I'm hoping the cedar on my boxes lasts a little longer because it costs a bit more than the pine! If not, I guess it'll be back to pine.

landarch 1/30/2012, 11:37 pm

I just read aabout these links on ana-white.com...affordable cedar fence pickets, cut off the dog ears, and build raised boxes (on the cheap). I may give these a try this week. Hopefully the links work.

Cedar Boxes

Home Depot Cedar Pickets

deriter 1/31/2012, 7:40 am

This looks like a plan to me. I would guess that with the 5/8" thickness that you would need side support in the middle like some of the pictures were showing. Also, I was thinking you could just leave the dog ears on and just box in the corners like they were showing in the pictures. But for that price I think you could make them work. I will definitely look into this. Thanks landarch!

tomperrin 1/31/2012, 8:01 am

I used untreated, but painted, picket fence ends purchased on sale for 50 cents each from a fence company. I hated them. They were a pain to put together. And I needed to double them to get them high enough. That said, they were cheap and effective. I would use Strong Ties or wood corners to put them together rather than nails or L brackets.

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The Home Depot link provided above was for treated pine. I would not ever use treated wood. The pros and cons of treated wood have been well discussed elsewhere in the forum.

Thicker wood will resist rot a lot longer than thin wood. My cedar squares are 1" rough cut, and I would suggest 2" milled cut for pine.

landarch 1/31/2012, 9:23 am

The link shows all pickets they offer, two of which are cedar.

Try Craigslist as well...I know in the KC area there are several listings for old cedar fences being torn down and the wood is for sale.

One might also look at Builder's Surplus/ Habitiat for Humanity stores...I looked in KC the other day and the lumber was fairly picked over, but they had electrical conduit, pvc pipe, window's, etc.

I am also trying to find a cheap supply of vinyl or pvc fence rails, or composite lumber/decking.

killjug 1/31/2012, 2:00 pm

I used the cedar fence pickets with 2x2 in the corners. I have some planters that are still good after 5 years. I am recycling the wood for trellises. I live in North Central Texas.

deriter 2/1/2012, 9:35 am

Killjug, did you have to support the middle of the boards? I was wondering if the 5/8" x 4' material would be heavy enough to hold the soil or I should say Mels Mix without bowing out a little. I believe I would be very happy with 5 years of service for the amount invested. I am sure I will get 5 years out of this cedar 2" x 6" that I have. Its just that I can see it breaking down after 2 seasons. It is breaking down on the edge that was down against the soil. I believe I will look into this cedar picket stuff. Not sure how the difference in climates make.

lisaphoto 2/1/2012, 11:41 am

That's a great find with the fence pickets, I am hoping to build some more boxes this year.

tomperrin 2/1/2012, 5:44 pm

Yesterday I pulled up my painted cedar picket fence ends for replacement by larger boards. They were virtually untouched, albeit a bit dirty. I have no idea what kind of paint was on the boards, one reason for their being recycled.

Today, I rummaged around and reassigned two unpainted 2" x 10" milled boards, one 8' and one 7'. Bought a third at the box store. These will be turned into a long raised bed 3 1/2' x 8' for corn this year. The spot that I have chosen for the corn is very wet but does dry out as the season progresses.

Alongside this long square will be a couple of my usual cedar squares. At the end of the season, I'll have a peek to see if there are any signs of rot, and will post the pics on this thread.

My theory is that both will weather the summer well, proving that heavy pine is a viable alternative to cedar when cost is an important factor.

georgiahomegarden 2/5/2012, 10:45 pm

I used 2 by 6 cedar rough cut for my beds. They are only a year old, but I don't see why they won't last 10 to 20 years. I think your beds will last longer if the boards are thick. Mine are 1.75'' inches thick.

Look at third picture in this post.
http://georgiahomegarden.blogspot.com/2011/04/2011-garden-square-foot-gardening.html

landarch 2/5/2012, 11:10 pm

Today I found 1"x8"x16' cedar (one side rough one side smooth) on sale for $16 at Menards in Manhattan KS...bought enough to make a couple more 4x4 boxes. They also had all their seeds market way down. It was a productive trip as i also filled several feed bags with horse manure to add to the compost pile. In addition, I taked to a friend that says that he has lots of cedar lumber from an old barn that was torn down and to not buy any more...he can hook me up.

deriter 2/5/2012, 11:30 pm

The material I used for my raised bed was the typical 1 1/2" x 5.5" smooth cedar that I got from the lumber yard. Since I am new to the sfg method, I had used black dirt to fill the boxes. We had two springs that were very wet. I don't know if this had something to do with the depreciation of the wood or if it was that they were filled with dirt I just don't know. I don't know if there are different qualities of cedar and maybe what I got is not very good. I do know it was the edge that was down against the ground that is showing damage. Now I am sure I can get some more years out of them, its just that I can see the wood cracking/checking like it does when wood is starting to go down hill.

Nice garden georgiagardener. I looked at your slides of your garden stuff and it looks like you got the garden thing working for you. Thanks for sharing.

deriter 2/5/2012, 11:37 pm

landarch, maybe I'll just have to make a trip to kc to find some deals. Did the boards measure a full 1" x 8". A lot of times that material is actually not what they call it. Like the 2 x 4 is actuall 1 1/2 x 3 1/2. Not picking at it, just curious as that sounds like a good deal. Only have $16 in each box. I will keep my eyes open for deals like this and those cedar fence boards.

georgiahomegarden 2/5/2012, 11:53 pm

deriter wrote:The material I used for my raised bed was the typical 1 1/2" x 5.5" smooth cedar that I got from the lumber yard. Since I am new to the sfg method, I had used black dirt to fill the boxes. We had two springs that were very wet. I don't know if this had something to do with the depreciation of the wood or if it was that they were filled with dirt I just don't know. I don't know if there are different qualities of cedar and maybe what I got is not very good. I do know it was the edge that was down against the ground that is showing damage. Now I am sure I can get some more years out of them, its just that I can see the wood cracking/checking like it does when wood is starting to go down hill.

Nice garden georgiagardener. I looked at your slides of your garden stuff and it looks like you got the garden thing working for you. Thanks for sharing.

Yep...sounds like you used 2by6's so I am surprised they are degrading so fast. My mailbox post is cedar and it is twelve years old and solid as a rock. Maybe you just got a bad board.

Thanks for the compliments on my garden. I am only in my third year so I am still learning, but I have had pretty good luck so far.

CindiLou 2/6/2012, 2:49 am

I am in Lucas county, iowa. South Central. I use 2x8s and 2x10s for my beds. Pine not cedar because I am allergic to cedar. I have not had to worry abut any of it being rotted yet.

This is a bed that was in its third year last year. Not a sign of a problem yet.
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It was filled with basically a potting soil as I had the old book when I started.

landarch 2/6/2012, 10:54 am

yes, the boards were slightly smaller than 1"...but they were so cheap I decided to go with them...the thicker cedar boards just aren't in my budget. If I had the money, I would go with the new composite/ plastic lumber that lasts forever...I even saw pvc lumber in stock but was way out of my budget. PVC or vinyl rails for 2-3 rail fences would work too, but they are pricey.

CindiLou 2/6/2012, 3:14 pm

I bought my new boards the last two years out of the Menards cut stacks, construction grade lumber. The ones I got this year were like $6 for 2x10 that were 6' long. Then I got two that were 4'. You have to keep checking though, they may not have enough decent ones at the same time. I check about every two weeks when I am in Des Moines.

Beav395 2/12/2012, 5:56 pm

Hello Gardeners

I'm new to the forums here.

I just finished building my first SFG!! It's 4' X 6'. I used 6' redwood fence pickets that were $2.35 each at Home Depot. I used redwood 4x4's in the corners and in the middle of the 6' sides for extra support. The posts go about 4" into the ground.

Time to grow some fresh veggies!

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**camprn** 2/12/2012, 5:59 pm

THAT is BEEEEEAUTIFUL! What a Face

Beav395 2/12/2012, 7:28 pm

Thanks. I hope the vegetables turn out as good. I've never grown a vegetable in my life.

**RoOsTeR** 2/12/2012, 7:32 pm

I'm sure you will do fine, and you've got lot's of resources here to help you CEDAR FRAMES 3170584802

Welcome to the forum by the way, and that really is a great looking box!

**Furbalsmom** 2/12/2012, 8:00 pm

Beav395

Looking forward to hearing of your progress in your BEAUTIFUL SFG.

I am sure you will have some great veggies.

deriter 2/12/2012, 9:54 pm

Beav395, all I can say is just way cool. Looks like you are off to a very good start. And I guess I am new here too, but I want to say welcome to the forum too. My guess is the redwood will out last my cedar wood that I used.

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