Mel's Mix: Replenishing

Hi all, 

FACTS:  
This past spring Created and put in Mel's Mix in our new 24" in height Raised garden beds
  * We are in the Asheville, N.C. area  where we have had above normal temperatures (tonight going down to high 20's)  
  * We have 240 s.f. of growing area. (in a 20x40' fully enclosed garden)  
  * Bottom 16" consisted of topsoil purchased locally 
  * Nex 6" consisted of Mel's mix 
         *  1/3 Vermiculite
         *  1/3 Peatmoss 
         *  1/3 compost consisting of equal amounts of Cow Manure, Chicken Manaure and Worm castings 
   * Had extra 2" left over should we have needed to add mulch which we never did. 

*   I think we have been adding small amounts of the compost mix as veggies are harvested to replenish nutrients;  there are 3 families sharing the garden and not sure if they are being strict about replacing the compost. 

*  The level of the Mels Mix and or topsoil originally 2" from top is now down to about 5" from the top.  (IT SUNK ABOUT 3")    

*  We currently have a number veggies still in the ground.  
*  My guess is about 75% of the growing area being covered up on chilly nights with Agrabon cloth. 
*  We are very happy in general with the quality and yield f the produce  we'd harvested so far.  

QUESTION/S
*  What do you think is the most likely cause of the compaction of 3 "? 
*  Was it the top soil compacting?
*  Was it the compost being absorbed by the veggies? 
*  Should I just put back 3"  of  compost to raise the level to 2" from the top? 
*  Should I put a combination of the compost and Peat Moss ?  
*  Is there a way to determine if the Mel's mix and the topsoil have blended together 

Alan from Asheville

Fishtell wrote:         *  1/3 compost consisting of equal amounts of Cow Manure, Chicken Manaure and Worm castings

That is too much manure, and not enough compost. While that manure is very rich in nutrients, it breaks down very quickly whereas compost with high organic matter breaks down very slowly.

Fishtell wrote:
QUESTION/S
*  What do you think is the most likely cause of the compaction of 3 "? 
*  Was it the top soil compacting?
*  Was it the compost being absorbed by the veggies? 
*  Should I just put back 3"  of  compost to raise the level to 2" from the top? 
*  Should I put a combination of the compost and Peat Moss ?  
*  Is there a way to determine if the Mel's mix and the topsoil have blended together 

I'll try to address the questions in order, if the train doesn't run off the tracks.

*  The shrinkage in the beds is normal, and to be expected especially the first year. When compost breaks down, it shrinks considerably in quantity (while improving quality).  And, composted manure breaks down even faster.

*  The top soil may have compacted a little, possibly 1/3rd of the shrinkage was the topsoil compacting.

*  Yes, plants use soil nutrients to grow and produce the fruit.  That is why Mel said to add a "scoop" of compost for each plant removed.

*  Yes, add more compost to bring the level back up to where it should be, but make it a mixture of different types of compost which do not include manure this time. Worm castings should never be more than 10% of the mixture. The more varied types of compost, the better.

*  You should not need to add more peat moss at this time, just some high quality compost.

*  The topsoil and Mel's Mix have not blended unless you dug into the bed and mixed them. The earthworms will over time pull some of the compost down into the topsoil, but that is a very slow process.

** Extra note:  All of my beds, even though they have been in use for years, typically settle about 2" per year and I am constantly adding my home made copost to the beds. Periodically, with no particular schedule, i will add some new vermiculite and/or coconut coir (which breaks down faster than peat) just to keep the soil a mixture rather than pure compost.

Hi there Ohio,  
Thanks for the feedback Its appreciated.   

OUR COMPOST MIXTURE: 
  *  Setting up a compost bin and creating plant based compost is something I hope to start doing before the spring.  But... Its a lot of work and I'm not sure I'd be able to make enough plant based compost from kitchen scraps  or stuff from our  wooded area,   mowed fields.  and maybe gathering it up from local food stores and restaurants.   Maintaining 9 acres is a full time job.   In the mean time I have to try and purchase the compost  in bags locally. 
  *  I tried for many weeks to find a more varied mix of compost.  The best I could do is the Cow manure, Chicken manure and worm castings.   We just didn't have any plant based compost.  I tried to get lobster compost but had too much of other bad stuff in it. 
  *  That all said, our veggies were happy with what we did except for my wife who added organic fish and seaweed fertilizer to some red pepper plants that were not doing too well and they sprung back to life after that.    My neighbor who sharing some of the space and who has been gardening for many years says he's amazed at how well our veggies did with the formula we used.  

RAISING LEVELS
  *  So I guess we have no choice to try and make some plant based compost before this spring and do the best we can in finding some additional varieties  of the bagged compost. I have to bring the level up 3-4 inches and use what existing manure inventory I have in bags plus start shopping for an additional supply.  
 
TO SUMMARIZE:   
  *  I have no way to determine how much if any of the Peat Moss or Vermiculate has been reduced ...or is there a way?? 
  *  I have bags in storage of Vermiculite , Peat moss and the cow, chicken and worm castings and  was going to create whole new batches of Mel's Mix to get the levels up ....  
  *  You are saying just add plant compost to bring the levels up which I can't do
  *  My options are to create a totally new batch of Mel's Mix and bring up the levels or just add in the mixture of Cow manure, Chicken manure and Worm castings to bring up the levels and not add any Vermiculite or Peat Moss.  

What say you sir?  

Regards, 

Alan from Asheville, N.C.  area.

Fishtell wrote:  *  I have no way to determine how much if any of the Peat Moss or Vermiculite has been reduced ...or is there a way?? 
  *  I have bags in storage of Vermiculite , Peat moss and the cow, chicken and worm castings and  was going to create whole new batches of Mel's Mix to get the levels up ....  
  *  You are saying just add plant compost to bring the levels up which I can't do
  *  My options are to create a totally new batch of Mel's Mix and bring up the levels or just add in the mixture of Cow manure, Chicken manure and Worm castings to bring up the levels and not add any Vermiculite or Peat Moss. 

Peat moss decomposes very slowly, and will be there for years. Vermiculite does not decompose, but breaks down into smaller and smaller particles. As long as you can see full pieces of large vermiculite, it has not yet started breaking down.

But, given what you have said, it would not hurt anything to make a new batch of Mel's Mix using the peat moss, vermiculite, and compost, to bring the level of the beds back up.  If you add the worm castings, ensure it is only about 10% of the total mixture.

Does the Asheville Greenworks provide any compost for homeowners?

If your neighbor was amazed at the vegetable growth and production the first year, wait until he sees it in the 2nd or 3rd year.  It just gets better and better.

Another way to help your kitchen compositing is a local coffee place.  I live in a small town, and we don’t have anything like Starbucks, but we do have a pretty bustling coffee house!  I have no trouble catching some offings from them, and bringing back the buckets!

Scorpio Rising wrote:Another way to help your kitchen compositing is a local coffee place.  I live in a small town, and we don’t have anything like Starbucks, but we do have a pretty bustling coffee house!  I have no trouble catching some offings from them, and bringing back the buckets!

Good point, SR!  Anther excellent source of composting material is the pulp from the local juice bar.  Two nearby towns each have a popular juice bar. They allow me to take in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid, they fill it with the fruit & vegetable pulp from their juicing, and they call me when it is full so that I can pick it up. I add the pulp with pine pellets and Starbucks coffee grounds to the compost tumbler, and it breaks down quickly into excellent compost.

I'm joining the party late.

*  Agree, no more manure at this time except if you really, really have to.
*  When you first fill the beds, the MM will settle when you really, really water it good, or it rains.  Even the dirt will compact after you water it well. Do add 2" more compost.  If that 1 other inch bothers you, do make more MM.  My first beds were built with 3 levels of 2 x 4" (10 1/2" high) for looks, but only filled to the 7" mark.  I've never worried about the "short" fill as long as there is still 7" of continuously MM.
*  Yes, you will pull up some soil if you are aggressive when pulling out the plants.  You may want to start to pull them out and then use a sharp knife to cut off the anchoring roots.  I think that some roots will follow the water as it percolates through the dirt.  Most "feeder" roots will stay in the MM where they find it delicious.  
*  You won't have to worry about reduced peat moss or vermiculite for a few years.  My first MM (made incorrectly, by the way, in 2013) was recently amended with about 1/2" of new coarse vermiculite one year, and 1/2" of fluffed peat moss the next year.  That made it like new fluffy MM, instead of the compacted, compost-heavy material it turned into.  
*  Yes, keep the worm castings to 10% maximum.
*  Build a compost cage.  Now.  Get 3 used, clean, often-free pallets, two 1"x2"x8' pieces of wood, screws and enough cheap fencing planks to make a removable fourth side.  Using the thin wood strips to create a vertical channel on both sides of the open front to drop down and lift up the horizontal fencing boards so you can get at the compost pile.  Start filling now.  Wet leaves in the neighborhood ? , mow up a bale of cheap bedding straw for the browns which will be the bulk of the material.  As previously mentioned, scrounged juicing pulp and coffee grounds, Produce culls from a market, pine pellets for the stove, some washed up seaweed if you visit the coast, used bedding material from stalls or cages.  Micro-Brewery waste.  Have buckets, will collect.  When someone tosses a banana peel out the car window, break for it.  

My husband built 3 sides (think pallets) that were joined for the 3 sides.  Then made slots for the vertical boards.  12"x12" pavers and bricks for a nice solid, but draining, bottom.  Early prototype.  

Eventually the 3 sides were lined with 1/2" hardware cloth with Romex staples, then lined with durable weed fabric clipped to the hardware cloth.  I didn't want to loose ANY of the compost.

You may want to checkout Danny's Dumpster near the Asheville Nature Center.  I recently bought and had delivered 10 cubic yards to go into new beds I am putting in this spring.  He sells straight compost or a compost and top soil mix (2 parts compost, 1 part top soil).  He collects organics from local restaurants etc. and uses a hot composting method to produce.  He has a web page you can Google.

Hope it helps

Sorry I'm posting replies so many days late, but I usually get an email notifying me when there is a post and didn't get one or didn't see it.  

Re: the 10% worm casting limit... my existing MM is exactly 11.111 % worm castings , pretty close.  (We measured the batched by putting in (3)  5gal. buckets of Vermiculite , 3 buckets of Peat Moss & 1 bucket each of cow, 1 of chicken and 1 of worm)  

Re: Bringing up the levels of MM 3" or so.   I'm going to take all of your advice and check out the local sources for free compost materials.  My carpenter skilled neighbor is going to help me build a 3 compartment compost bin and start making our own from stuff in the woods, field clippings from our 9 acres, kitchen scraps and compost we can find from local sources such as coffee houses etc. 

Regards, 

Alan from Asheville area

Sounds like you have a good plan, Alan.

As OG stated, it sounds like you have a good plan.

I should have written: keep the worm castings to 10% maximum of the blended compost.