Square Foot Gardening Forum
[table bgcolor=#000000 height=275][tr][td]
Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Toplef10Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids 1zd3ho10

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids I22gcj10Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids 14dhcg10

[/td][/tr][/table]

Join the forum, it's quick and easy

Square Foot Gardening Forum
[table bgcolor=#000000 height=275][tr][td]
Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Toplef10Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids 1zd3ho10

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids I22gcj10Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids 14dhcg10

[/td][/tr][/table]
Square Foot Gardening Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 

 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» What are you eating from your garden today?
by OhioGardener Today at 4:42 pm

» N & C Midwest: March and April 2024
by JAM23 Today at 4:30 pm

» Heat Mat Lifespan
by Turan Today at 2:17 pm

» Greetings from a haggard mom
by Turan Today at 2:13 pm

» Mark's first SFG
by markqz Yesterday at 10:45 pm

» Recommended store bought compost - Photos of composts
by sanderson Yesterday at 8:20 pm

» Compost bins: Open vs. closed
by donnainzone5 Yesterday at 4:47 pm

» Drip Irrigation question
by sanderson Yesterday at 3:12 am

» raised bed quanders
by OhioGardener 3/1/2024, 7:32 pm

» N&C Midwest January & February 2024
by OhioGardener 3/1/2024, 7:15 am

» Seeds 'n Such Leap Year Sale
by sanderson 2/29/2024, 1:42 pm

» Kiwi's SFG Adventure
by sanderson 2/29/2024, 1:40 pm

» Sealing Barrels Flowers Struggling-Need Ideas
by Turan 2/29/2024, 12:07 pm

» Horsey poop
by MrBooker 2/29/2024, 10:56 am

» Calling all juice bar waste composters...
by KiwiSFGnewbie 2/27/2024, 5:21 pm

» Happy Birthday!!
by Scorpio Rising 2/27/2024, 10:00 am

» Famous Gardening Quotes
by sanderson 2/26/2024, 10:53 pm

» Hello From the Kern River Valley from Kernville, Ca
by sanderson 2/26/2024, 9:52 pm

» Prefab compost question
by DMann 2/24/2024, 12:37 pm

» Starbucks for coffee grounds!
by OhioGardener 2/24/2024, 7:44 am

» Hello from Surrey
by sanderson 2/23/2024, 12:29 am

» Kitty Control
by sanderson 2/22/2024, 10:49 pm

» Western Mount/High Plains: Seed Planting Dates
by Turan 2/22/2024, 4:07 pm

» Jjean59 first SFG - 2024
by Scorpio Rising 2/22/2024, 11:00 am

» Winter Lag - Waiting for Sprimg
by sanderson 2/21/2024, 4:36 pm

» TDs 2024 SFG
by Turan 2/21/2024, 12:09 am

» Hello! From GA! Newbie
by sanderson 2/20/2024, 9:53 pm

» Sweet Potato Slips - Buy or Grow?
by sanderson 2/20/2024, 1:27 pm

» Seeds 'n Such Free Shipping
by sanderson 2/20/2024, 1:09 pm

» Ohio Gardener's Greenhouse
by OhioGardener 2/19/2024, 5:46 pm

Google

Search SFG Forum

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

+10
Pollinator
Nonna.PapaVino
Turan
GWN
floyd1440
Treefrog
RoOsTeR
No_Such_Reality
southern gardener
cheyannarach
14 posters

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  cheyannarach 8/17/2012, 1:18 pm


When you are a rookie shopping for seeds and you start noticing heirloom, hybrid, open pollinated, it can all be overwhelming and confusing. Which one do I choose? Did I pick the right one? Well what you choose all depends on your personal opinion and what's right for you in your gardening conditions. I am going to break down some of the differences of heirlooms, hybrids, and open pollinated seeds to help give you a better understanding the next time you are browing through a seed catalog!



We'll start with heirlooms.

{ The definition and use of the word heirloom to describe plants is fiercely debated.

One school of thought places an age or date point on the cultivars. For instance, one school says the cultivar must be over 100 years old, others 50 years, and others prefer the date of 1945 which marks the end of
World War II and roughly the beginning of widespread hybrid use by growers and seed companies. Many gardeners consider 1951 to be the latest year a plant can have originated and still be called an heirloom, since that year marked the widespread introduction of the first hybrid varieties. It was in the 1970s that hybrid seeds began to proliferate in the commercial seed trade. Some heirloom plants are much older, some being apparently pre-historic.

Another way of defining heirloom cultivars is to use the definition of the word "heirloom" in its truest sense. Under this interpretation, a true heirloom is a cultivar that has been nurtured, selected, and handed down from one family member to another for many generations.

Additionally, there is another category of cultivars that could be classified as "commercial heirlooms," cultivars that were introduced many generations ago and were of such merit that they have been saved, maintained and handed down - even if the seed company has gone out of business or otherwise dropped the line. Additionally, many old commercial releases have actually been family heirlooms that a seed company obtained and introduced.

Regardless of a person's specific interpretation, most authorities agree that heirlooms, by definition, must be
open-pollinated. They may also be open pollinated varieties that were bred and stabilized using classic breeding practices. While there are no genetically modified tomatoes available for commercial or home use, it is generally agreed that no genetically modified organisms can be considered heirloom cultivars. Another important point of discussion is that without the ongoing growing and storage of heirloom plants, the seed companies and the government will control all seed distribution. Most, if not all, hybrid plants, if regrown, will not be the same as the original hybrid plant, thus ensuring the dependency on seed distributors for future crops.} From wikipedia.

Heirlooms are saved year after year because of their superior taste, texture, colors, etc but don't have the shelf life or disease resistance to be a commercial product. All heirlooms are open pollinated which means that a plant will produce seeds naturally and the seeds will have the same characteristics of the parent plant, but hot all open pollinated plants are heirloom. Many heirloom seeds are cultivated in a certain area for so long that they become resistant to the local pests/disease and accustomed to the local weather which can make it more challenging to grow if your climate and pests are different than where these seeds came from.

Hybrids are a cross breed of two different parent plants to give the resulting plant special traits such as cold hardiness, early production, pest and disease resistance, shelf life, crack resistance, etc. Hybrids are created purposfully and by accident (maybe even in your garden). Vegetables are bred to become more appealing to different customers for different uses. Many hybrids are sold commercially for their longer shlef life, abilitity to be mechanically harvested, shipping hardiness among other reasons. Another example of why hybrids are created are to create plants with specialized characteristics for example the early girl tomoato which was made to produce fruit earlier than her sisters. If you were to save seeds from your early girl you will get a plant similar to one of her parent plants, such as good tomatoes but not early producing. There are also many hybrids that are made to be to be more pest and disease resistant, if you live in an area where powdery mildew is often a problem a powdery mildew resistant plant may come in handy in your garden and get you some more produce.

Hope this helps give a little more understanding of how heirlooms differ from hybrids. For the non rookies, just for fun let me know what your favorite heirloom and hybrid plants are to grow and we can compile an ever changing list of top 10 for the forum! It would be a fun way to get new ideas of what to plant next spring!
cheyannarach
cheyannarach

Female Posts : 2037
Join date : 2012-03-21
Location : Custer, SD

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  southern gardener 8/17/2012, 1:50 pm

good info! thanks!
southern gardener
southern gardener

Posts : 1887
Join date : 2011-06-21
Age : 43
Location : california, zone 10a

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  No_Such_Reality 8/17/2012, 2:08 pm

The difference is really basic.

Heirloom - an old established genetically stable plant. If you bred it true, it will produce seeds that are consistent.

Hybrid - a crossbred plant true to expectation only for this one planting. Saving the seeds will result in plants with a variety of characteristics.

Hybrids are intentionally bred to provide a specific set benefits. It may be early ripening like Early Girl Tomatoes. It may be disease resistance or most often, prolific production, consistent coloration shape or shipability.

Hybrid should not be confused with GMO, genetically modified organisms. Like Roundup Ready Soybeans are produced through direct modification of the DNA genome through modern technology.

Open pollinated simply means the plants are allowed to pollinate through natural means.

Open pollinated, IMHO, is both good and bad. Good in that it's how plants have bred for millions of years. Bad in that, YMMV sense. Some plants, like melons are notorious cross pollinators. So when you have a long company producing a large variety of open pollinated melons.. well, most will be bred true, but you never know. As I understand it, that's the issue with the Monsanto lawsuits with the Soybean farmers. The one farmers GMO crop cross pollinating another farmers non-GMO crop and the non-GMO crop now having the patented DNA.
avatar
No_Such_Reality

Male Posts : 666
Join date : 2011-04-22
Location : Orange County, CA aka Disneyland or Sunset zone 22

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  RoOsTeR 8/17/2012, 6:22 pm

Cheyanne Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids 3170584802 thanks for putting up a Rookie Topic! I've been so busy this week it slipped my mind that it was that time again already. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule and putting together another informative topic for us Cool

____________________________

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Logo-111
I am my gardens worst enemy.
RoOsTeR
RoOsTeR

Male Posts : 4316
Join date : 2011-10-04
Location : Colorado Front Range

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  cheyannarach 8/17/2012, 6:54 pm

Thank you! It seems pretty simple but that's why it's a rookie topic. When I first started buying seeds and growing plants I didn't know the differences and I am guessing I am not the only one.
cheyannarach
cheyannarach

Female Posts : 2037
Join date : 2012-03-21
Location : Custer, SD

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  RoOsTeR 8/17/2012, 7:08 pm

cheyannarach wrote:Thank you! It seems pretty simple but that's why it's a rookie topic. When I first started buying seeds and growing plants I didn't know the differences and I am guessing I am not the only one.

Your right Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids 3170584802 All the topics make great reference tools.

____________________________

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Logo-111
I am my gardens worst enemy.
RoOsTeR
RoOsTeR

Male Posts : 4316
Join date : 2011-10-04
Location : Colorado Front Range

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  Treefrog 8/22/2012, 3:05 pm

Great information. It can get confusingfor new gardenners buying seeds and understanding the differences between hydrids and heirlooms varieties.
Treefrog
Treefrog

Male Posts : 15
Join date : 2012-08-21
Age : 46
Location : Ripon California, Zone 9b

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  floyd1440 8/22/2012, 8:41 pm

Treefrog wrote:Great information. It can get confusingfor new gardenners buying seeds and understanding the differences between hydrids and heirlooms varieties.

So the Brandywine seeds are saved will produce the same tomatoes next year? The question I have is I noticed earlier posts this summer were some had cheese cloth to protect their tomatoes from cross politation so they must have been hybrid......







floyd1440
floyd1440

Male Posts : 815
Join date : 2011-06-21
Age : 70
Location : Washington, Pa. Zone 6a

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  cheyannarach 8/22/2012, 9:29 pm

They were more than likely heirlooms and the cheesecloths were protecting from cross pollination so when they saved those seeds they would remain the same as that plant!
cheyannarach
cheyannarach

Female Posts : 2037
Join date : 2012-03-21
Location : Custer, SD

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  GWN 8/22/2012, 11:05 pm

cheyannarach
Thank you thank you thank you.
Although I have tried to understand the difference many times, the point you made about the hybrids and saving seeds not being true to parents really hit home.
This year I have been given some very special seeds and so feel I have been trusted with the responsibility to nurture these plants and thier offspring and thus pass on the seeds to other gardeners.
I find this concept SOOO incredibly exciting.
Kind of like finding a very special antique. Something from the past to pass on to our children. thanks
GWN
GWN

Posts : 2804
Join date : 2012-01-14
Age : 67
Location : british columbia zone 5a

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  cheyannarach 8/23/2012, 8:42 am

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids 993580 Thank you Janet! It was fun to write!
cheyannarach
cheyannarach

Female Posts : 2037
Join date : 2012-03-21
Location : Custer, SD

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  Turan 8/23/2012, 12:04 pm

Excellent topic and one that can easily confuse people. I was talking with my mom this winter and found she (long time gardener) had no idea what hybrids vs OP in a catalog meant. I guess it was my dad who explained it to me.

I had long thought that OP just meant homogenetic, that the plants had been so long bred among themselves and selected for uniformity that the genetics had simplified to one set, so they breed true to their type. But now I learn it is a bit more complex than that. Which explains better why getting an OP seed from a catalog and then selecting for seed from the plants I grow in my garden will then select for a line that is specifically better for my conditions.

In tomatoes there are many stories of varieties that demonstrate this. Sudduth's Brandywine is a good example being an old heirloom variety, Brandywine, that was then selected in a families garden for 100 years to be what we now can call Sudduth's strain of Brandwine.

One of my favorite tomatoes is the hybrid Big Beef. Now, 20 years after its introduction to gardeners, there is an OP version 'de-hybridized' by Tomatofest I intend to try this strain this coming spring to see if the OP version will grow well for me. If it does I will start saving its seed and thus personalize the strain for my specific garden.

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Belgrade, MT
Click for weather forecast
Turan
Turan

Female Posts : 2613
Join date : 2012-03-29
Location : Gallatin Valley, Montana, Intermountain zone 4

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  floyd1440 8/23/2012, 8:24 pm

Cheyanne

I saved some Brandywine seeds without protected the toms with cheesecloth so are they OK to use next year or just toss them as they were open polinated?

affraid
floyd1440
floyd1440

Male Posts : 815
Join date : 2011-06-21
Age : 70
Location : Washington, Pa. Zone 6a

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Brandywine Sudduth's Strain

Post  Nonna.PapaVino 8/23/2012, 9:38 pm

Thank you, Turan, for mentioning the Sudduth's strain of Brandywine. It is a delightfully taste-full tomato, but in the Pacific Northwest, it's very temperamental: lots of blown blossoms, a sneer at our late-June warming, and an irritating tendency to form blossom end rot while being grown in the midst of other varieties that never show BER. It's true, it's true: YMMV! So I'll send out a plug for a similar tomato that does do well in the PNW: Black Sea Man. Two plants share a re-purposed commercial dryer drum filled with Mel's Mix, a Brandywine Sudduth's Strain and a Black Sea Man. Last time I counted, Brandywine had 7 fruits on it; Black Sea Man had 18 fruits set on it, and we've already harvested 3 ripe Black Sea Man beauties! Nonna
avatar
Nonna.PapaVino

Female Posts : 1437
Join date : 2011-02-07
Location : In hills west of St. Helens, OR

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  Pollinator 8/23/2012, 10:20 pm

floyd1440 wrote:Cheyanne

I saved some Brandywine seeds without protected the toms with cheesecloth so are they OK to use next year or just toss them as they were open polinated?

affraid

Look closely at the flower. On some tomato varieties, you can't see the stigma; it's deep inside. On others, the stigma sticks out beyond the anther tube. That will tell you what the chances are of the tomato crossing.

For the ones where the stigma is hidden, it's much less likely to receive pollen grains from another plant. Outcrossing probably will run 5% or less.

For the ones with the exerted stigma, outcrossing will be much greater, and these would definitely need to be bagged and hand pollinated, if you want to save seeds that are true to variety.
Pollinator
Pollinator

Male Posts : 445
Join date : 2012-06-23
Location : Coastal SC

http://gardensouth.org

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  cheyannarach 8/23/2012, 10:49 pm

Pollinator wrote:
floyd1440 wrote:Cheyanne

I saved some Brandywine seeds without protected the toms with cheesecloth so are they OK to use next year or just toss them as they were open polinated?

affraid

Look closely at the flower. On some tomato varieties, you can't see the stigma; it's deep inside. On others, the stigma sticks out beyond the anther tube. That will tell you what the chances are of the tomato crossing.

For the ones where the stigma is hidden, it's much less likely to receive pollen grains from another plant. Outcrossing probably will run 5% or less.

For the ones with the exerted stigma, outcrossing will be much greater, and these would definitely need to be bagged and hand pollinated, if you want to save seeds that are true to variety.
Thank you Pollinater
cheyannarach
cheyannarach

Female Posts : 2037
Join date : 2012-03-21
Location : Custer, SD

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  Turan 8/24/2012, 1:22 pm

Nonna.PapaVino wrote:Thank you, Turan, for mentioning the Sudduth's strain of Brandywine. It is a delightfully taste-full tomato, but in the Pacific Northwest, it's very temperamental: lots of blown blossoms, a sneer at our late-June warming, and an irritating tendency to form blossom end rot while being grown in the midst of other varieties that never show BER. It's true, it's true: YMMV! So I'll send out a plug for a similar tomato that does do well in the PNW: Black Sea Man. Two plants share a re-purposed commercial dryer drum filled with Mel's Mix, a Brandywine Sudduth's Strain and a Black Sea Man. Last time I counted, Brandywine had 7 fruits on it; Black Sea Man had 18 fruits set on it, and we've already harvested 3 ripe Black Sea Man beauties! Nonna

My experience is similar to yours. I think Suddoth is particularly good at illustrating the concept of a particular strain of a type being best for its own climate (which is to be expected). It probably is great in parts of the Mid West... but not here at least for me.

Thanks for the suggestion of Black Sea Man.... I just saw its seed in Tomatofest and have now put it on the list to try. I grew Purple Cherokee this year and it did great. Paul Robeson not so well.

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Belgrade, MT
Click for weather forecast
Turan
Turan

Female Posts : 2613
Join date : 2012-03-29
Location : Gallatin Valley, Montana, Intermountain zone 4

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  floyd1440 8/24/2012, 8:34 pm

Pollinator wrote:
floyd1440 wrote:Cheyanne

I saved some Brandywine seeds without protected the toms with cheesecloth so are they OK to use next year or just toss them as they were open polinated?

affraid

Look closely at the flower. On some tomato varieties, you can't see the stigma; it's deep inside. On others, the stigma sticks out beyond the anther tube. That will tell you what the chances are of the tomato crossing.

For the ones where the stigma is hidden, it's much less likely to receive pollen grains from another plant. Outcrossing probably will run 5% or less.

For the ones with the exerted stigma, outcrossing will be much greater, and these would definitely need to be bagged and hand pollinated, if you want to save seeds that are true to variety.

Good post Pollinator. I just used one tomato and saved the seeds but do not know if they have been contaminated by other tomato plants so my question is should I pitch them and do it right next year?

First time saving seeds and I have some more that I purcheased last winter. It is good practice just saving seeds though as that is a learning curve as well,,,

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids 3170584802
floyd1440
floyd1440

Male Posts : 815
Join date : 2011-06-21
Age : 70
Location : Washington, Pa. Zone 6a

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  cheyannarach 8/25/2012, 2:53 am

Personally I would go ahead and use the seeds, if you are really concerned I would also plant backups as well! I wouldn't pitch them! Live and learn is my motto! Good luck with them!
cheyannarach
cheyannarach

Female Posts : 2037
Join date : 2012-03-21
Location : Custer, SD

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  sanderson 11/25/2016, 4:39 pm

The Foundation posted this on their Facebook page.  Normally, I just share their postings under "Facebook - SFG Foundation postings", but this one is good information for all gardeners.  So, I posted it under an existing Rookie Topic.

The difference between open-pollinated, heirloom, and hybrid seeds:  
http://blog.seedsavers.org/blog/open-pollinated-heirloom-and-hybrid-seeds

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Fresno, CA
Click for weather forecast
sanderson
sanderson

Forum Administrator

Female Posts : 21468
Join date : 2013-04-21
Age : 75
Location : Fresno CA Zone 8-9

https://connect.xfinity.com/appsuite/#!!&app=io.ox/mail&

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  Scorpio Rising 11/27/2016, 8:31 pm

study Excellent read!
Scorpio Rising
Scorpio Rising

Female Posts : 8659
Join date : 2015-06-12
Age : 62
Location : Ada, Ohio

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  brianj555 12/2/2017, 7:19 pm

I enjoy these rookie topics.  Thanks for bumping them sanderson.  After reading this one, a pretty complex question came to mind, so I wil try to make it as simple as possible initially.  I will be growing about 8 different heirloom varieties in the same proximity this spring (god willing:D). Big, Small , Red , Purple, Black , Paste , slicing ect. Ect .  Their will also be a few hybrids in the mix to ensure that I get some good tomatoes as I have never grown heirlooms before.  
My question is in regard to saving seeds and cross pollination.  With this variable cornucopia I will have going on within a 40 square area , will the seeds from the heirlooms be at all true? 
 If I were to continue to save seeds from plants from the seeds I previously saved year after year, will I eventually end up with all the seeds producing the same variety ?  
Would the seeds keep the good characteristics and remove the bad ones?  How does that work?
Can anyone shed some light on this for me?  I guess I’m becoming a Garden nerd because this seems very interesting to me .tongue
I’m 44.  Wondering if at 84 I will be growing rainbow creole cherowine paste tomatoes????Shocked
brianj555
brianj555

Male Posts : 444
Join date : 2017-08-22
Location : Zone 9 - Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  BeetlesPerSqFt 12/2/2017, 10:18 pm

brianj555 wrote:I enjoy these rookie topics.  Thanks for bumping them sanderson.  After reading this one, a pretty complex question came to mind, so I wil try to make it as simple as possible initially.  I will be growing about 8 different heirloom varieties in the same proximity this spring (god willing:D). Big, Small , Red , Purple, Black , Paste , slicing ect. Ect .  Their will also be a few hybrids in the mix to ensure that I get some good tomatoes as I have never grown heirlooms before.  
My question is in regard to saving seeds and cross pollination.  With this variable cornucopia I will have going on within a 40 square area , will the seeds from the heirlooms be at all true? 
 If I were to continue to save seeds from plants from the seeds I previously saved year after year, will I eventually end up with all the seeds producing the same variety ?  
Would the seeds keep the good characteristics and remove the bad ones?  How does that work?
Can anyone shed some light on this for me?  I guess I’m becoming a Garden nerd because this seems very interesting to me .tongue
I’m 44.  Wondering if at 84 I will be growing rainbow creole cherowine paste tomatoes????Shocked
Will you get cross-pollination between closely spaced varieties? It's possible. Tomatoes can self-pollinate, but insects and wind can get involved resulting in crosses - and some tomato varieties are more susceptible to crossing than others. One site suggested that adjacent plants would still result in 95% purity. That's probably enough for a home-gardener who is not sharing/selling seeds. If you want higher purity, you can bag the flowers in reemay or some other fine fabric (not plastic) before they fully form, to keep "foreign" pollen and insects out. Then keep the seeds from just those fruits that form from the protected flowers.

Your tomatoes will all be true this year because the fruit is the ovary of the parent plant - the fruit is unaffected by cross-pollination - it's next year's fruit that might be different. (You probably already knew that, but my experiences suggest it's a common point of confusion for people, so I want to be clear for others also reading this thread now, or in the future.)

If cross-pollination occurs, the resulting seeds will be a mix of the "good" and "bad" characteristics of the parents. I have good and bad in quotes because what's good or bad depends on the environment -- and the opinions of the grower. A tomato that grows well in a hot environment could be good or bad depending on where the tomato is growing. If a seed grows into a plant that is genetically susceptible to a disease and it dies before it makes fruits (and thus makes no seeds), it cannot pass on that bad characteristic (disease susceptibility), even if it would have grown extra tasty tomatoes. If the disease does not get into your garden, and the plant survives and you save the seeds from those extra tasty tomatoes, some of those seeds will still grow into disease susceptible plants. So it's partially nature selecting what's good and bad, and partly you deciding what's good and bad, and part of it is just random.

Heirlooms are inbred to the point where the genetics are stabilized, and you get the same thing whether your Brandywine pollinates itself, or a different Brandywine pollinates it. If you cross two different varieties of plants, a Brandywine and a Roma, the seeds from that cross will be hybrids. Some crosses give a very consistent result, and those are the hybrids companies make on purpose to sell. (They usually keep the names of one or both parents a secret.) Other crosses give different/inconsistent results - different colors, sizes, shapes (consistent per plant, but not between sibling plants.) And if a hybrid crosses with itself you often get a bunch of variation in the offspring plants. Selecting among those offspring for those like the hybrid, over and over, for a few years until you stop getting variations out is one way new varieties are created. But sometimes the desired traits can't be stabilized this way, and the only way to get them is with hybrids. (This has to do with homozygous vs heterozygous genes, but then we start getting into genetics.) Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids 1666079590
BeetlesPerSqFt
BeetlesPerSqFt

Female Posts : 1439
Join date : 2016-04-11
Location : Port Matilda, PA Zone 5b/6a LF:5/11-FF:10/10

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  Turan 12/2/2017, 10:39 pm

In 42 years of not isolating the breeding of a group of tomatoes will you end up with rainbow creole cherowine paste tomatoes? Very Happy
Maybe, as Beetle explained. You would be selecting which plants seem the best for your own situation and Ma Nature would be a big help in that. So you should end up with something that is specifically good for your tastes and garden. It is best for such efforts to have plenty plants of each type, so you have a selection to select from. I think this type of breeding results in what is called a landrace breed. I did this with a flour corn and the results do pretty well in my specific area, and I want to attempt it with squash. However it is easier to grow a lot of plants of corn than of squash or even tomatoes.

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Belgrade, MT
Click for weather forecast
Turan
Turan

Female Posts : 2613
Join date : 2012-03-29
Location : Gallatin Valley, Montana, Intermountain zone 4

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  sanderson 12/2/2017, 11:13 pm

study

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Fresno, CA
Click for weather forecast
sanderson
sanderson

Forum Administrator

Female Posts : 21468
Join date : 2013-04-21
Age : 75
Location : Fresno CA Zone 8-9

https://connect.xfinity.com/appsuite/#!!&app=io.ox/mail&

Back to top Go down

Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids Empty Re: Rookie Topic: Heirlooms vs. Hybrids

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum