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How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? Toplef10How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? 1zd3ho10

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.

How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? I22gcj10How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? 14dhcg10

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How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft????

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How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? Empty How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft????

Post  Merrymouse 1/27/2023, 10:05 am

Hello

New to forum.

Im starting from scratch with a new garden this year.  Im stuck on sourcing the Mels Mix ingredients.  The problem being is my garden is 190 cu ft.  So buying bags at a local garden store or box store is out.  I found a local place that sells in bulk but they have different kinds of compost but they dont list the ingredients.  Also I figured out I need about 27 cu ft of each Compost, Vermiculite and Peat which equals 2 1/2 yards each if buying in bulk. So how do I source 5 different types of compost if Im buying in bulk.  I can just imagine the look on the sales persons face when I try to order 2 1/2 yards of Vermiculite, 2 1/2 yards of peat and 1/4 yard of each of the 5 different composts LOL! 

Thanks
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Post  OhioGardener 1/27/2023, 11:50 am

Welcome to the forum from Ohio!  You will find it very difficult to find multiple kinds of bulk compost in that amount. If you want 4 types of compost, that about 2/3 cu yd of each type, not to mention the 2.5 cu yd each of vermiculite and peat.  Many, if not most, of the "bulk compost" blends that is sold is not really compost, but a mulch. They "compost" wood chips, etc., and sell it as compost when it is really nothing more than mulch.  Sources you might try is local farms that might have "aged manure" which the center will be fully composted, such as a beef feed lot, a chicken farm, a rabbitry, etc.. Near us, for example, there is a mushroom farm that gives away their used compost for anyone that wants to haul it off, and there is a nearby Jersey dairy farm that gives away the manure & straw mixture.

You say you need 190 cu ft of MM, does that mean you are starting out with 380 sq ft of raised beds?  That is a big starting garden effort.  I have 220 sq ft of raised garden beds, and it produces far more vegetables than we can use so I can't imagine having nearly twice that much.

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Post  Merrymouse 1/27/2023, 5:46 pm

My garden bed are all 12" deep Im on Cape Cod and the soil here is mostly sand so I wanted my veggies to have a nice deep soil before they hit the sand.

I have one 2x20
          Four 3x8
          two 2x2
and two L shaped approximately 2x7 ish. Its about 190 cu ft of soil because its 12" thick not 6" thick.  Does that make sense.  The garden area is 20x20
  
And you're correct its going to be more food than we can eat but I have people to give away some.  Also we are fencing it in and when I retire I will be at this house full time and I don't want to regret making it too small.  Also go big or go home LOL Smile

Thanks for your help
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Post  Merrymouse 1/27/2023, 5:51 pm

ok I just counted up my squares on my garden plan is 116 sq ft
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Post  OhioGardener 1/27/2023, 6:09 pm

Merrymouse wrote:My garden bed are all 12" deep 

Its about 190 cu ft of soil because its 12" thick not 6" thick.  Does that make sense. 

It is nice having 12" high beds, in fact mine are 18" high to compensate for an old back.  But, you won't need/want 12" of MM in the beds. Fill the first 6" of the beds with topsoil, sand, etc., and then fill the last 6" with MM.  Some suggest you fill the bed with 5" of top soil, then top off with 6" of MM leaving an inch for mulch. If you have 116 sq ft, that would be 58 cu ft. 

And you're correct its going to be more food than we can eat but I have people to give away some.  Also we are fencing it in and when I retire I will be at this house full time and I don't want to regret making it too small.

I can relate to that, but I did it a little differently.  My entire garden area got fenced, and the first year I put in two raised beds, one 4'x8' and one 4'x12'.  The next year I added a third 4'x12' bed.  Then the next year I added two more 4'x12' beds. Interspersed during this time I added five 36" fire rings filled with MM to hold Rhubarb plants. This allowed me to learn from the experiences of the beds while spreading the cost of the MM ingredients.

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Post  sanderson 1/28/2023, 4:15 am

Hi Merry,  Welcome to the Forum from California! glad you\'re here

Have you read the 2nd or 3rd Edition of All New Square Foot Gardening?  It's basically a must to under stand why only 6-7" of Mel's Mix is all that 97% of all veggies need.  Everything the plant needs is right there in the top 6".  Nutrients, water and something for the roots to grow into.

You wrote:
I have one 2x20
         Four 3x8
         two 2x2
and two L shaped approximately 2x7 ish.

Doing the math, I come up with: 2'x20' = 40 sq ft
3'x8' x 4 beds = 96 sq ft
2'x2' x 2 beds = 8 sq ft
and 2'x7' x 2 beds = 28

That is a total of 172 sq ft.  The total Mel's Mix is half or 86 cu ft.  Divided by 3 = 28.7 cu ft each of vermiculite, FLUFFED UP peat moss and blended composts.  That's a little over 1 cu yard of each.

-Peat moss comes in compressed bales.  Since it fluffs up to 150%, you only need 19 cu ft.

-Coarse Vermiculite comes in 4 cubic foot bags so you will need 7+ bags.  Uline Grade #3 is the cheapest for the volume you need.  Farm Tek and A.M.Leonard also carry coarse.  Check on prices and shipping to see which is the best deal for you.

-You will need at least 29 cu. ft bags of composts.  Actually more, because every time you plant, you will add more composts to bring it up to the height it started.

If you really want 12" beds, the SFG Foundation recommends washed sand or top soil for the bottom filler.  Since you already have sandy soil, you don't need anymore bottom filler.  Beds made from 2"x8" common lumber will be 7 1/2" high for the Mel's Mix plus a little room for summer and/or winter mulch.

I sketched out what I think is your proposed garden and it will just fit on a 20' x 20' plot with 3' isles between each bed.  If you do end up fencing it in, you will need a 3' exterior perimeter isle resulting in a 26' x 26' plot of fence land.

Since you are in the land of Coast of Maine Lobster Quoddy, I have to caution you about composts containing peat moss as fillers.  COM can have up to 40-50% peat moss which mean it is only 50-60% compost.  Learn to ready compost labels.  I swear that the more expensive a compost, the more fillers it has.  thinking  You don't want biosolids/humanure, peat moss, coir, perlite, sand, wood or bark fines.  Limit manure-based compost to 20-30% of the total composts.  Try to find other sources such as veggie-based, greenwaste-based, mushroom compost, cotton burr (probably not in Mass.)

Final note.  Forum member Docwas is a SFG Certified Instructor and a Master Gardener, and is active with the Foundation.  As his Master Gardener final project, he compared 2 identical 4' x 4' beds planted with the identical crops.  One bed had 6" of MM, the other 12".  The result was no difference in weight of produce, height, width or health of plants.


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Post  Merrymouse 1/28/2023, 11:52 am

sanderson wrote:Hi Merry,  Welcome to the Forum from California! glad you\'re here


Have you read the 2nd or 3rd Edition of All New Square Foot Gardening?  It's basically a must to under stand why only 6-7" of Mel's Mix is all that 97% of all veggies need.  Everything the plant needs is right there in the top 6".  Nutrients, water and something for the roots to grow into.



Yes, I read this book or read it quickly and I must have missed that part about only needed 6 or 7" of Mel's Mix.  Thank you.  This will help with the costs.

You wrote:
I have one 2x20
         Four 3x8
         two 2x2
and two L shaped approximately 2x7 ish.


Doing the math, I come up with: 2'x20' = 40 sq ft
3'x8' x 4 beds = 96 sq ft
2'x2' x 2 beds = 8 sq ft
and 2'x7' x 2 beds = 28



Clearly my math skills are lacking.  You are correct. And as for all the numbers and help below I truly appreciate the time you took to figure this out for me.  It was a head scratcher!


Also I did make up a garden plan on Growveg.com.  If I can figure out how to upload it here I would love to share it for further help as I am brand new to this.  Thank you again!
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Post  sanderson 1/28/2023, 11:35 pm


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Post  Merrymouse 2/3/2023, 10:33 am

How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? 15363510


Here is my tentative garden plan.  I managed to find a decent compost and peat and its being delivered next week.  One yard each.  I also ordered Coarse vermiculite from Uline (yikes! very expensive) its also coming next week so I can fill my beds.  We got all the garden boxes built and leveled.  Im going to fill halfway with soil from my yard then top 6" more or less with Mel's mix.  I will probably move veggies around a little and not sure Im going to plant all that I have listed here.  Starting my onion indoors today! Thanks again for all your help.  How does my plan look?
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Post  Merrymouse 2/3/2023, 10:35 am

the green rectangle is a garden bench and the circle in the middle is a big planter for something pretty.
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Post  sanderson 2/4/2023, 3:31 am

Congratulations on sourcing the materials. How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? 3170584802

I have a couple of questions. Which way is north? Are you using trellises and if so, where are they located? I noticed winter squash in big empty areas. Those can be trellised easily. At least I think they are the butternut symbol. Do you get the white butterfly or the cabbage looper/moth? If so, grouping brassicas together and securely covering with bridal tulle or insect netting will prevent them from laying their eggs on them.

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Post  Merrymouse 2/4/2023, 6:42 am

sanderson wrote:  Which way is north?  Are you using trellises and if so, where are they located?  I noticed winter squash in big empty areas.  Those can be trellised easily.  At least I think they are the butternut symbol.  Do you get the white butterfly or the cabbage looper/moth?  If so, grouping brassicas together and securely covering with bridal tulle or insect netting will prevent them from laying their eggs on them.
The bottom of the garden where the opening is will be a gate that is the east side.  The North side is where the tomatoes are on the right of the screen. South is where the garden bench is (green rectangle)   I planned on having trellises all along the North side.The Winter Squash is a small butternut.  I was thinking of moving them both to the far top right corner which would be Northwest corner but I was a little concerned about the sun exposure there.  I might have some mid to late afternoon shade there.  But if I put both squashes in that corner I could trellis them.  I was thinking of putting a cattle panel hoop trellis between that corner and the top 3x8 bed but I only have 2' between the row there so thats a little tight.  I did purchase some insect netting for the brassicas.  If I move the squash I could put the broccoli and the brussels in the same bed I guess just for ease of netting just one area instead of two.  

Im a little concerned with my North side plantings.  One foot just seems so tight for those tomato plants crammed in with the basil etc.  And 8 pole beans in one square foot?  Seems very crowded.  Have people actually planted that many plants in one square foot successfully?  Not just the beans and tomatoes but 9 bush beans in a square foot???  etc.  I have my concerns.
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Post  OhioGardener 2/4/2023, 8:02 am

Merrymouse wrote:I'm a little concerned with my North side plantings.  One foot just seems so tight for those tomato plants crammed in with the basil etc.  And 8 pole beans in one square foot?  Seems very crowded.  Have people actually planted that many plants in one square foot successfully?  Not just the beans and tomatoes but 9 bush beans in a square foot???  etc.  I have my concerns.

I don't attempt to pack plants that close, since air flow through the plant is a important as soil nutrients.  I have 20" square tomato cages, and I place 4 of them in a 4'x6' bed in a zigzag pattern so that they support each other. In the open spaces I will plant a basil. 
How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? Bed_la11

As for pole beans, I plant them along a trellis spaced 6" apart.  For bush beans, I plant them 9 per square.

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Post  yolos 2/4/2023, 7:51 pm

I pretty much do what OG said except I plant 4 bush beans per square.  We get a lot of disease and bugs here in hot Georgia and I hate digging thru a bunch of plants looking for the beans.  It gets so crowded I can't see what is going on down below the plants.  Especially with things like bean aphids invading.
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Post  yolos 2/4/2023, 7:55 pm

yolos wrote:I pretty much do what OG said (especially planting pole beans and tomatoes) except I plant 4 bush beans per square.  We get a lot of disease and bugs here in hot Georgia and I hate digging thru a bunch of plants looking for the beans.  It gets so crowded I can't see what is going on down below the plants.  Especially with things like bean aphids invading.
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Post  sanderson 2/4/2023, 10:09 pm

Merrymouse wrote:
The bottom of the garden where the opening is will be a gate that is the east side.  The North side is where the tomatoes are on the right of the screen. South is where the garden bench is (green rectangle)   I planned on having trellises all along the North side.  The Winter Squash is a small butternut.  I was thinking of moving them both to the far top right corner which would be Northwest corner but I was a little concerned about the sun exposure there.  I might have some mid to late afternoon shade there.    But if I put both squashes in that corner I could trellis them.  I was thinking of putting a cattle panel hoop trellis between that corner and the top 3x8 bed
A little afternoon shade is fine.
but I only have 2' between the row there so thats a little tight.
When the plants are in full growth, 2' will probably a little tight.  3' isles are recommended.  
I did purchase some insect netting for the brassicas. If I move the squash I could put the broccoli and the brussels in the same bed I guess just for ease of netting just one area instead of two.
Yep
  

Im a little concerned with my North side plantings.  One foot just seems so tight for those tomato plants crammed in with the basil etc.  And 8 pole beans in one square foot?  Seems very crowded.  Have people actually planted that many plants in one square foot successfully?  Not just the beans and tomatoes but 9 bush beans in a square foot???  etc.  I have my concerns.
Don't get hung up with planting basil and tomatoes together.  They don't do anything for each other.  They are just compatible living next to each other.  There are other places you can put the basil.
As a beginner, you can allow 1.5' or 2' per indeterminate (tall) tomato plant.  That will give you a chance to learn about pruning suckers and limiting the plants to the mother/main stem and 1 daughter/sucker stem.  I don't know where you live, but if it's humid you may want to have the tomatoes more opened up than I do here in hot, dry Fresno, CA.[/quote]

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Post  Merrymouse 2/12/2023, 10:59 am

How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? 15363511

I've changed things around a little.  This is not the final draft but getting there.  I figured it would be better to have my 3x8 boxes facing this way so they get more southern sun exposure and more room on the long sides for trellis.  Im going to most likely plant less per square foot than recommended.  How does this look?  We built all the boxes, leveled them and filled them half way with screened loam.  My compost and peat delivery was delayed but I got the vermiculite.  Compost and peat will be delivered in two weeks to finish off filling the beds.  I've plotted and planned out the garden fence that will surround it.  Now I just have to build it!  Ill try to post a picture of the garden as it is today in the next post... Your thoughts anyone?
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Post  Merrymouse 2/12/2023, 11:17 am

How do I source Mels Mix for 190 cu ft???? Fullsi10
Above is how I had it configured before I woke up in the middle of the night and finally figured out what was niggling the back of my brain about the layout.  In this photo I am standing on the east side so south is left and north is right and west is straight ahead.  I turned my 3x8 boxes so they could face the southern sun see below:
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Post  Merrymouse 2/12/2023, 11:27 am

For some reason I cannot upload the new configuration picture.  Ill try again later
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