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Leaves as mulch?

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Post  JAM23 Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:00 pm

Hello, I had a question regarding mulched leaves. Last fall I gathered tons of fallen leaves to use in my newly started compost. I was wondering if I could also them and use them as a mulch in my vegetable gardens this spring/summer or do I need to worry about them stealing nitrogen from my plants? They are currently sitting in lawn bags in my shed to keep them dry. Some are mulched and some are still whole. Any advice would be welcome.
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Post  OhioGardener Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:06 pm

Leaves make a very good mulch, and they do not pull any nitrogen out of the soil as long as they are only on top of the soil and not tilled in. They work better if they have been run over by the lawn mower a couple times to shred them - if they are whole, they tend to mat and prevent water seeping through them.  The leaves are also considered a "brown" for composting.

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Post  JAM23 Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:12 pm

Thank you so much for your response! I am looking forward to using these in the garden this year!
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Post  sanderson Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:28 pm

I hope you have a Ring camera on those stored leaves! Razz A gardener thief would ditch the tools and grab the bags of leaves.

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Post  JAM23 Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:10 pm

LOL.....my daughter and I may have driven around the neighborhood last fall and gathered pre-bagged leaves that our neighbors put out on the curb because I ran out of leaves for the compost by mid summer last year. She thought I was crazy, but I am SO happy I have them stored!
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Post  OhioGardener Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:38 pm

JAM23 wrote: She thought I was crazy, but I am SO happy I have them stored!

lol!
 
I've always been crazy, but it has kept me from going insane!  Very Happy

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Post  sanderson Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:45 pm

OG Razz

Jam, my poor husband had to help gather leaves at a school, the front and back yard of a neighbor, not to mention horse manure at the college stables. Oh, and buckets of produce culls at the farmers market and coffee grounds from Starbucks. I hung up my compost fork a couple of years ago, but I thought it was so much fun to make compost. My husband, not so much.

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Post  Soose Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:57 am

This won't be new to most of you but I'll drop it here anyway for newbies like me who come by...

My master gardener friend rakes her leaves and stores them in bags.  Then, when she has enough,
she drops them in batches into a large garbage can and uses her weed whacker (string trimmer) to
tear them up before adding to her compost.
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Post  sanderson Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:16 pm

Running over the the leaves, bedding straw, etc. with the lawn mower also works.

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Post  JAM23 Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:22 pm

I will be doing this in the spring for sure! I have not yet been brave enough to ask for coffee grounds at my local Starbucks, but I really want to!
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Post  sanderson Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:08 pm

You won't know until you try. One person dropped off clean buckets and would pick them up when the operators called him. Myself, our Starbucks just tie off the bags and it's first come first grabs the bag. I would call the 4 in my area to see if they had any full bags, then zoom over if they said yes. I did this for the week I was going to build the full compost pile on the weekend.

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Post  OhioGardener Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:52 am

JAM23 wrote: I have not yet been brave enough to ask for coffee grounds at my local Starbucks, but I really want to!

They really appreciate us picking up the coffee grounds so that they do not have to throw them in the dumpster. We have 4 Starbucks in the local area, and if i call them in the early morning to ask them to save them for me they will label them to be held for me. After I go by at 4:00pm, I come home with 4 to 6 large bags of grounds.  I once posted a video of how I separate the filters, etc., from the grounds. I'll see if I can find the video and post a link to it when I have time.

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Post  Soose Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:10 am

OhiiGardener, may I ask, how large is a large bag? (Of coffee grounds from Starbucks). Just curious. Ty.
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Post  OhioGardener Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:18 am

Soose wrote:OhiiGardener, may I ask, how large is a large bag? (Of coffee grounds from Starbucks).  Just curious. Ty.

They are fairly large, about 30# to 40# of grounds.  This picture of a Starbucks coffee grounds run last fall will give you an idea of the size/quantity.
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Post  Soose Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:02 am

Awesome, I had no idea! Can you use too many coffee grounds? I will read up. My husband's mug once per day ... Doesn't!
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Post  OhioGardener Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:17 am

Soose wrote:  Can you use too many coffee grounds?

Yes. No.  Depends.

Yes, you can use too many if you just dump them on the garden. If they are spread too heavily, they will form a crust that blocks water absorption and water will run off. But, if they are loosely scattered on top of the soil they will be a great benefit. Don't dig them into the soil, just spread on top of the soil.

No, if you are piling them in a pile where they will rapidly compost down into rich black soil.  If I make a large pile on them on the ground, worms will rapidly move up into the pile and digest them.

Depends on if you are mixing them with compost. I add them frequently to the compost tumblers, up to about 50% of the contents, and they rapidly heat the compost and keep it at 160ºF for a number of days. This makes great compost. But, on the other hand, if I just fill the tumbler with coffee grounds by themselves I will end up with a huge gooey mess that will not compost.

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Post  Soose Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:11 pm

Thank you, OhioGardener, for instructions, so clear. I can do this. Smile

AND I just called a nearby stand-alone Starbucks (no one answered at the ones inside grocery stores), and Amy there is going to save her grounds for me tomorrow morning!  I can come in while she is still there (before noon) to pick them up. 

I have no idea how much one morning of grounds will be -- maybe not your wheel barrow full -- but I'm going to get to know this gal!  Smile  They don't have anyone asking for them right now.  It's a busy main thoroughfare Starbucks!

This will be great!  Thanks so much for all the help!
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Post  Bean boy Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:36 pm

I turned my open beds for year, to turn the leave under the soil, they compost quickly that way.
I have used them as mulch & let them rot all summer, also.
I have mulched my garlic with leaves also. I am going to start shredding them so they will let more water into the raised beds. Shredded leaves will break down quicker too.
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Post  sanderson Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:12 pm

Sooze, Some of OG's bags look bigger than mine.  Some I could carry, others my husband had to carry. I only used them in compost piles. Building a compost pile in the 3'x3'x3' compost bin in one weekend was an exercise in mowing leaves and bedding straw, collecting 33-gallon bags of horse manure from the college, collecting 5-gallon buckets of produce, even flowers, at the Farmer's market on Friday nights during the summer,

Bags of coffee grounds collected for a couple of days.Leaves as mulch? Coffee11

Dancing on coffee pucks in the winter. Leaves as mulch? Compos56

Hours of cutting up buckets of produce collected on a Friday night at the Farmers market. Leaves as mulch? Compos54

Assembling mowed leaves, mowed bedding straw, garbage cans of horse manure, coffee grounds, Leaves as mulch? Compos55

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Post  Soose Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:15 am

Sanderson, thanks for the photos of coffee grounds and additions.  I guess I am going to try to collect "makings" for a few days while it's nice and sunny out:

Coffee grounds.  The more the better brought home, right?  Then I'll decide how many to use where.  This week I want to work on collection.

I have mostly-oak/dogwood leaves wet out on the driveway.   I also have some old leaves that have deteriorated / composted nicely, collected in a large garbage can. (Or two?  Will look.)

I always have veg matter for composting. Both fresh and in all stages.  (We produce kitchen waste about a 12qt stockpot every 1.5 to 3 days?)  But part of it in the outside compost bins has been going anaerobic for awhile.  (Sad. But I know it can be reconditioned.  I saved instructions on a docuseries recently.)

I am hearing that I should not use the forest finely shredded mulch (called soil conditioner here) in the compost that is going into the raised SFG this year.  That's a blow.  It's a bulk source I'd found that is uncomtaminated.  Not many of those. Sad 

I found a source of straw and a source of hay.  Asked. The straw was sprayed.  (With what?)  The hay (offered at 4$/bale was only fertilized last season, but will it bring in weed seeds?   Must keep looking.

I can get generic cow manure at $2.49/cu ft.  Black Kow at around $6/cu ft.  

Mushroom compost 5.46 for 40lbs, Black Velvet Old Castle.

Worm castings $16/ cu ft at feed/seed...   Home Depot has one Organic 10lb or 7.5 qts "Soil Blend" $20.  Will keep looking.
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Post  OhioGardener Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:16 am

Soose, here is the video I made on sifting the Starbucks coffee grounds in order to use them in the gardens. Hope it helps a little.


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Post  Soose Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:16 am

OhioGardener, so helpful!  I didn't even realize there would be filters to sort out!
That is a great video and a really cool way of sorting!  I have an old coke carton - it's a little diff.
Not sure of the bottom... Will look around here for something of the right grid to filter. 
( Until I can find a dairy version, aren't there some planting trays from the nursery that have that
mesh bottom? But they don't have a good enough lip/box side. Tall.   Will think/look.)
Thanks mucho!
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Post  OhioGardener Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:44 am

Soose wrote: I didn't even realize there would be filters to sort out!

Not only coffee filters, but cup lids, straws, milk bottle caps, etc., that get thrown into the same bucket as the grounds.  Plus, the compressed grounds "pucks" must be broken up before using in the garden.

Will look around here for something of the right grid to filter. 
(Until I can find a dairy version....)

Stop by your local 7-Eleven, Quick Stop, etc., to ask if they might have an old plastic milk crate out back that you could have. They'll quite likely be glad to get rid of it.

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Post  Soose Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:38 pm

I went to a Starbucks before noon, as requested, and Amy had left early.
But the other people were happy for me to have their grounds - it just wasn't very much at that point.
About 1/2 cu ft or 3/4, including filters?  So I asked if I could come back later when there would be more.
Going back at 3:30 before that staff leaves, to see.
I may have to find different Starbucks?  We'll see. lol
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Post  sanderson Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:31 pm

Soose wrote:Sanderson, thanks for the photos of coffee grounds and additions.  I guess I am going to try to collect "makings" for a few days while it's nice and sunny out:
To make a large compost pile, correct?  Just clarifying.

Coffee grounds.  The more the better brought home, right?  Then I'll decide how many to use where.  This week I want to work on collection.
Bags of coffee ground for the compost pile?  Only a thin layer should be added on the top of the MM for slug/snail control.  I bought a milk crate (similar to the one OG posted in the video below) at Home Depot for rinsing off muddy 2" river rock.  https://www.homedepot.com/p/Edsal-11-in-x-13-in-x-13-in-16-Qt-Polypropylene-Milk-Crate-Storage-Box-in-Black-MK131311-HD/300656648

I have mostly-oak/dogwood leaves wet out on the driveway.   I also have some old leaves that have deteriorated / composted nicely, collected in a large garbage can. (Or two?  Will look.)
For composting?

I always have veg matter for composting. Both fresh and in all stages.  (We produce kitchen waste about a 12qt stockpot every 1.5 to 3 days?)  But part of it in the outside compost bins has been going anaerobic for awhile.  (Sad. But I know it can be reconditioned.  I saved instructions on a docuseries recently.)
Fresh, frozen, moldy, or anaerobic can be added to the compost pile.

I am hearing that I should not use the forest finely shredded mulch (called soil conditioner here) in the compost that is going into the raised SFG this year.  That's a blow.  It's a bulk source I'd found that is uncomtaminated.  Not many of those. Sad 
You can use it in the compost pile as a brown, and then screened out when the compost pile is done.  Use a frame with 1/4"  hardware cloth for screening homemade and store bought compost.  Wood fines, bottle caps, plastic lids, rocks, straws, wire, etc. need to be screened out.  Wood fines can go back into the next compost pile.  Never add to the Mel's Mix.

I found a source of straw and a source of hay.  Asked. The straw was sprayed.  (With what?)  The hay (offered at 4$/bale was only fertilized last season, but will it bring in weed seeds?   Must keep looking.
The store guy was honest to tell you the bedding straw was sprayed.  It was probably sprayed with Grazon or similar, meaning it was supposed to be safe for animals, but it NOT good for compost.  Even the hot compost method is no guarantine it would be deactivated.  It's okay that the hay was fertilized.  Using the hot composting method should kill the weed seeds.

I can get generic cow manure at $2.49/cu ft.  Black Kow at around $6/cu ft. 
Neither of those need composting.  Just screen.  (This makes one source of compost and should be limited to 20-25% of the blended compost.)

Mushroom compost 5.46 for 40lbs, Black Velvet Old Castle.
Another Score for compost!  That makes 2 sources.  cheers

Worm castings $16/ cu ft at feed/seed...   Home Depot has one Organic 10lb or 7.5 qts "Soil Blend" $20.  Will keep looking.
A third score!  However, these are expensive and should be limited to 5-10% of the total blended compost.

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