Rookie questions..

BackyardBirdGardner wrote:Megan, I am using different terms for boxes, personally. A "bed", to me, has no bottom. It's laid on the dirt/ground. A "box" has a bottom and usually, from what I've seen, is raised. I don't know that we disagree, but I would certainly be open to being corrected on this point...Like a bridge deck in cold weather, aren't raised boxes first to get cold with nothing insulating them from underneath? That is why I am avoiding lifting them off the ground. I want the ground beneath as insulation in fall to help me extend my growing season until the cold weather really hits.

Square Foot Gardeners tend to speak of boxes, though not exclusively. Some boxes have bottoms, some don't.

I think that in Missouri you don't have too much to worry about in terms of what freezes first. It takes a LOT of cold to freeze a box solid. I planted some onions just a week ago and though the top couple inches were frozen solid, I was able to get in there. You are better off with a cold frame, imho...that will give you much greater ability to extend growing time than leaving your boxes "in the ground" so to speak. The other thing is.... since you will be making your own soil, if you aren't going to do a raised bed, it means you will need to excavate down. I did a modified version of that, silly me, and it is BACK BREAKING work. Can't wait til I have nice easy boxes this year!

The reaching should be planned for because my trellises, and any larger verticals, will be in a 2' bed instead of the 4 footer. I may need a little access around the back, as someone mentioned, to get to the tops of the tomatoes, etc, but I can feasibly reach 6-7' high from outside the beds, per testing in my house...lol.

Yes, but can you reach 6-7' high plus several feet *IN*?? When something big is blocking your way? It's not just up, but up and over. I can reach 8 feet straight up, on my very tippy toes. I purposefully kept my trellises to 6'6" and I still had trouble reaching to harvest my pole beans. (I was balancing on one foot each on each side of the box, trying to hop up to grab elusive vines, all the time saying "must not step on Mix, must not step on Mix!" and trying not to fall flat on my keester or or plunging headlong into the tomatoes.)

It's a great idea to keep the large verticals to a 2' bed if you can't get around to the back of the trellis or if something else is in your way.

I'm sure I'll be amazed at a 6'+ plant growing from 6" of MM, but it is still blowing my mind at the moment

For reference, the trellis is 6' 6". This picture was taken last July, before the Monster squash took over. The really tall plant is amaranth, and it is growing in 4" of mix. (There is also corn that is just as high, but it's blending into trees in the background.) The beans on both trellises got much bigger later in the year.

Looking at those pics....Oh no, I'm a "disbeliever!!" But, I promise to come around soon.

We will make a believer of you..... muahahahahahah!!!!!

Here is a cross link to a GREAT thread that started up last summer: Lots of great info here.

https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t3082-care-to-share-what-you-have-learned-in-the-last-few-months

Thank you GZ and BBG for your sense of humor. Here's the back story.

We got new forum software in 2/10. But all the data from 2009's forum was lost. So when a bunch of newcomers started showing up last spring, we had no pictures, or posts, or links to support our experiences. I appreciate that some folks will be skeptical. But some actually wanted to argue that it was impossible to do what we had been doing for several years! It was frustrating, to say the least.

I enjoy your contributions to the forum, and some skepticism is healthy. I just hate to see anyone working harder than necessary in the garden. Here's a thread that may be of interest. Caroline has a small commercial greenhouse and knows a lot about growing tomatoes.

And if that doesn't convince you, then grow half your toms the SFG way, and the other half the 'old' way. After all, gardening is just a never-ending experiment!

My tomatoes were nearly 7' and had just 6" of soil last year...and I ate tomatoes, and gave tomatoes away, and ate more tomatoes, and gave more away...all summer long. Would have canned tomatoes, too, but we had a very wet October and I lost the whole lot to fungus.

So far, my impression of you guys is great. It seems we are all pretty tolerant people that enjoy laughing with and at each other's expenses. I love it.

I will keep in mind the reaching in portion of the trellises. But, for now, I don't envision having problems since the beds are only 2' wide. And, I will get creative, if need be, when it comes to step stools or planks of wood to avoid stepping on hallowed ground. But, the bigger point may be that the wife will never get up there, so the tomato harvesting will be entirely my job.

The mix skepticism is only because it violates what has been ingrained in my head forever when it comes to growing plants. I don't doubt it can be done, and that it HAS been done forever now, it just still blows my mind. That's all I ever meant. I just love the ferver that everyone jumps in with when a psuedo-doubter pokes his head up. It's like a community game of Whack-a-Mole!

However, if I only build my trellises about 6' high, and the toms keep going, what then? Obviously, my plan is to let them double over and head south. But, I'm wondering what that may do to the suddenly hostile takeover of the garden? Anyone with experience there?

And, for some reason, tomatoes are something I haven't ever mastered. This year I am paying more attention to variety to make sure nothing takes too long to get there. But, I don't think that was the case, as in that Chicago post on Google I found where their growing season was too short for the variety sold in the area. I just think I was overwatering, underwatering, generally, doing something wrong. And, I didn't think you could mess up a tomato! However, last year.....my first since an adult with MM....was by far our best. The cherries were busting out all season long....frankly, we got sick of them. And, the larger tomatoes, not beefsteaks, were doing pretty well, too. However, we still didn't get enough to give away. We used them up as soon as they turned ripe enough to pick. I suppose this year will be different.

But, that brings up a question I thought of last night that could pose a problem. My vertical bed is planned to go along the back wall of my house. That bed will be 2x9ish. I would like a longer bed, but it runs up to the a/c unit. I am leaving a foot from the plants, and the other side of the unit has tons of space. But, with that hot air discharging so close to the plants, when they get 4' tall, will the air bake them? Will that hot breeze dry them out? If so, how much clearance should I be leaving?

I was looking at that A/C unit in your photo any plants that are in your garden bed will eventually grow and most likely will go beyond the edge of the bed, thus putting them closer to the unit. If it were me, I would leave a 3 foot space from either side of the unit.

BackyardBirdGardner wrote:So far, my impression of you guys is great. It seems we are all pretty tolerant people that enjoy laughing with and at each other's expenses. I love it.

That is the kind of community we are trying to foster here, BBG, so thanks, and welcome again.

However, if I only build my trellises about 6' high, and the toms keep going, what then? Obviously, my plan is to let them double over and head south. But, I'm wondering what that may do to the suddenly hostile takeover of the garden? Anyone with experience there?

Well, I can tell you from personal experience that plants grown in Mix can and will eat your world!!! But as for tomatoes... we have some experts around here. My suggestion (based on my much wiser peers) is to prune them if they go nuts. You will get more fruit if you limit their ability to produce the leafy stuff. Just have fun, is the best advice I could give you.

But, that brings up a question I thought of last night that could pose a problem. My vertical bed is planned to go along the back wall of my house. That bed will be 2x9ish. I would like a longer bed, but it runs up to the a/c unit. I am leaving a foot from the plants, and the other side of the unit has tons of space. But, with that hot air discharging so close to the plants, when they get 4' tall, will the air bake them? Will that hot breeze dry them out? If so, how much clearance should I be leaving?

Nooooooooooo don't do it!!!!!!! Seriously. Air baking aside... my squash plant last year took over the yard, and just for grins, it managed to wind up inside the siding as well. If your plants are getting ANYWHERE near your siding or mechanical units, keep a very close watch and prune viciously! It costs nothing other than perhaps a decreased harvest to prune, but it could cost $$$ to fix siding or an A/C unit damaged by foreign object debris.

The more I think of it, the more I may need to move that bed before it gets built. Why save $20 in tomatoes at the store just to cost myself 6k in a/c replacement.

This bums me out a bit because that was the PERFECT spot for vertical stuff. But, it's not like I don't have another 60 days to think about plan B.