Wheelchairs & TT

I'm rather stumped.

I measured chairs and residents at the facility, to see at what height the arm rests were so we can configure the TT correctly.

There was a 12 inch difference!!!

How much clearance do I need?

I was planning on using the 2'x3' concrete tubs, but now I'm not sure what to do. If they drop into the table frame, then won't they block the wheelchair from accessing the table?

Meanwhile, we haven't heard from the Eagle scout candidate, so we are following up with that, too.

Suggestions? Recommendations?

Yeah, they have to put the seat height where the user can get in/out easily. I'm wondering how infirm these residents are and will put some questions/suggestions here...

Will they at least be able to lean forward a bit? If so, then you need to worry less about getting the chair arms under the table.

If they can't lean forward, is everyone working on the same part of the garden, or will they each have a section to themselves? If the latter, then you could do some tables lower for those in lower chairs, and some higher.

As I recall, they'll be growing flowers...is it necessary to put the flowers in 6" of MM, or do some flowers have shallower root systems than most veggies might? If you could do 4" like we can with salad greens, then that would reduce clearance of chair arms vs height of resident at least a little...but I'm thinking it might not be enough.

That's all I can think of right now. Hopefully someone else will chime in, too, and I'll mention this to my husband to see if he can think of anything.

I'm not in a wheelchair, so I can't speak from experience, but here are my thoughts....

People in wheelchairs are probably accustomed to what I consider to be "standard tables" for eating, crafting, etc. (When I see people in wheelchairs in public at tables, the tables are all standard.)

Does it make sense that if the bottom of the TT is about the same height as the bottom of standard dining room tables, then someone in a wheelchair is already used to maneuvering around that amount of clearance?

I'm not sure if this will work, but that's the line of logic I would begin with.

I've seen a u shaped TT for wheelchairs, but I can't remember where. Possible at this facility. If nothing else they might have some ideas tht you can copy.

http://www.nhcgov.com/Arboretum/Pages/AbilityGarden.aspx

Kay

That's an incredibly helpful link! It practically writes the proposal! Or at least gives me some great terms to consider!

I'm working on points for using MM over Miracle-Gro(R). I've already covered concerns with using synthetic fertilizers and/or
perlite.

I asked about comparative weight to soil in https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t7452p30-mel-s-mix-how-strong-is-your-backbone?highlight=weight+of+mel+s+mix#114344

Wheelchairs vary a great deal in height. I measured a foot difference in the height of the arm rest in 3 chairs I measured. I need to check with Therapy to see what the reach is for someone in a chair. I'm expecting to use 2x3' mixing tubs dropped into a TT frame.

Don't they need drainage? There is a drain built into the patio. How best do you drain the tubs?

I'm not sure how design the frame (size of wood?) or the legs for optimal wheel chair access. I'm not sure whether to use the lowest chair for height, or to make 3 different sizes.

A U shaped table sounds ideal for the coordinator to be able to oversee everyone.

If you have any other ideas or building pointers, please post.

Ava

Those questions would likely be best answered by Boffer!

I'm thinking that you'll need to put holes in the bottoms of the tubs, just like you would if using plywood, then putting some mesh or whatever over the holes to hold soil in. For drainage of water, catching it in a bucket or buckets seems like a good idea, since nobody will want to have their legs under the table when watering. The excess water could be reused elsewhere.

AvaDGardner wrote:

Don't they need drainage? There is a drain built into the patio. How best do you drain the tubs?

Ava

I am guessing this might be a perfect situation to work out self watering tubs. There is no drainage that way. If you take a tub with drainage holes and put that water wicking stuff in the bottom and through 2 holes and put that tub in another tub with out drainage but a way to fill it 3-4 inches with water...... Wouldn't that work? SOrt of mimicing Earth Boxes but shallower.

I would think the director of the facility could best answer your design heights. What type/size tables do they use in the dining room? Same thing for the rec room where they play cards and do puzzles.

Turan wrote:

AvaDGardner wrote:
Don't they need drainage? There is a drain built into the patio. How best do you drain the tubs?
Ava

I am guessing this might be a perfect situation to work out self watering tubs. There is no drainage that way. If you take a tub with drainage holes and put that water wicking stuff in the bottom and through 2 holes and put that tub in another tub with out drainage but a way to fill it 3-4 inches with water...... Wouldn't that work? SOrt of mimicing Earth Boxes but shallower.

That's a grand idea Turan! Watering is one of the activities they do. Having self wicking stuff would allow them to overwater, the mix a place to drain out, and still add moisture if someone doesn't tend to them daily (another of assigned activities for some of the residents).

I'm wondering if two layers of mixing bins, the inner one with holes, the outer one without, a wedge in between to create space, would rather be like a drain dish on a pot. It catches the extra water, and gives it back to the plant through the (submerged) holes as need.

Then no draining to the patio drain is needed, and the is no water overflow mess to deal with.

No one like the water flowing off the table onto their legs!

Tell me more about this self-wicking stuff?

Ava

boffer wrote:I would think the director of the facility could best answer your design heights. What type/size tables do they use in the dining room? Same thing for the rec room where they play cards and do puzzles.

They use 3x3 squares with center posts in the Skilled dining room (nearly everyone uses a wheelchair), and they use the same as well as 2x4 in ASL dining (I'd guess 50% are in wheelchairs; 25% walkers; 25% self-ambulatory).

In the activity rooms, they use those plastic top or laminated top 3x9 folding tables you can buy. Those on wheels sit on the side, those on foot use chairs on the ends.

Most activities are in the dining rooms.

This place reminds me of an old beach hotel, where you would have inside-access rooms surrounding a pool courtyard. Only the pools are gone. Some N- & S-facing rooms have doors to the patios, and now the patios are big concrete hotspots. The dining rooms are on the E side and a closed wing is on the W side. With this arrangement, the dining rooms are scorching hot in the summer, especially at dinner when the sun is lower in the sky, shining almost directly in the sliding doors, and the heat is bouncing off the empty sun-soaked concrete patios.

Ava

So the fastest remedy (not the best!) is more plastic 3x9 tables with 2x3 bins on top.

The big drawback is then a height issue for anyone not self-ambulatory. You'd have to be a tall person with a tall wheelchair to see over that combination!

We have a patio round we use now with containers. With short people and those with curved spines, the table is at chest/armpit level for some.

What was it Randy Newman said about short people?

Ava

AvaDGardner wrote:So the fastest remedy (not the best!) is more plastic 3x9 tables with 2x3 bins on top.

The big drawback is then a height issue for anyone not self-ambulatory. You'd have to be a tall person with a tall wheelchair to see over that combination!

We have a patio round we use now with containers. With short people and curved spines, the table is at chest/armpit level.

What was it Randy Newman said about short people?

Ava

What if you used a sawzall to cut holes in the 3x9 tables and set the tubs down inside? It might (ok likely would) compromise the structural integrity of the table though... I'm no carpenter, can you tell? LOL!

I think a u shape is a good idea. Are there people with wheel chairs who
can give input? And you and the scout should see if you can borrow one
and get a feel for the limitations and possibilities.

I know
that if the legs are not on the outside (center support) that is easier
for wheelchairs to avoid whacking into them, but it may not be practical
for your purposes.

Btw, my thing I harp on is that every house
should have at least one handicap bathroom. Who doesn't need it at some
point - bad backs, broken legs, surgery, etc etc. LOL. Maybe I will harp
on that for gardens too. I was thinking I would like to start a TT kit
business. But must wait til I get passed the survival phase of my life.
LOL.

Chopper wrote:I think a u shape is a good idea. Are there people with wheelchairs who can give input? And you and the scout should see if you can borrow one and get a feel for the limitations and possibilities.

I know that if the legs are not on the outside (center support) that is easier
for wheelchairs to avoid whacking into them, but it may not be practical for your purposes.

Btw, my thing I harp on is that every house should have at least one handicap bathroom. Who doesn't need it at some point - bad backs, broken legs, surgery, etc etc. LOL. Maybe I will harp on that for gardens too. I was thinking I would like to start a TT kit business. But must wait till I get passed the survival phase of my life.
LOL.

Being in survival mode, this may be the most creative stage for you! I know you've had a lot going on.

Yes, I agree the access issues of homes. Every FIRST LEVEL should be set up that way! (I'll take it one further!)

Yes, I am involved with the gardening club, and I measured three wheelies that were available...12" of difference in height of arm rests! I know I'll have to get the physical therapists involved for advice. I need to know reach, too. For instance, can I put the 2x3s across (3' reach) or do I need to put them long (2' reach). It's not only the tub, but the table frame holding it, too.

Look at the bottom photo on the right of The Ability Garden. I wonder how they do that? You'd lose leg room having the mixing tub under the table though.



Which brings us back to Gena's suggestion!

Here's the comparison of the two mixing tubs at Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/THDProductCompare?errorURL=ProductAttributeErrorView&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&prodComp_0=202086174&prodComp_1=202086173&N=5yc1vZaq89

The large tub is 25Wx36Lx7.5H and

the medium tub is 28Wx25Lx6.5H

(I think someone messed up on W&L for the smaller tub!)

Capillary matting http://www.territorialseed.com/product/325

You can cut strips etc to make a water wick.