Lumber and measuring for SFG boxes

Hi there.  New to SFG, new to forum, not new to building.  I'm confused about the measurements listed in all Mel Bartholomew's books.  They all talk about using 1x6 or 2x6 lumber, cut to 4' and connected with overlapping butt joints, then calculate the volume based on a 6" deep box.  Except: a lumberyard 1x6 is not 6" wide; it is 5 1/2" wide, so the box will not be 6" deep.  And cutting boards to 48" long then overlapping the joints will give an inside dimension smaller than 48," so the volume is not really 8 cubic feet.  And the squares are not really one foot square: add grid lath to the top and each square is now only about 11" instead of 12.

Does everyone just use the 5 1/2" board and call it 6 inches, and use the smaller squares and call them a foot?  Am I being too meticulous?  Seems like getting under 6" is getting very shallow for anything much.

Also, would like any feedback anyone has about using 2x vs. 1x lumber.  Heavier, yes, but will the 2x last a lot longer?  Does it look as nice?

Thanks for any help.

Guinevere,  You are correct.  6" lumber is only 5 1/2".  When the new Edition comes out this will be corrected to 2"x8", resulting in a bed that is 7 1/2" high, room enough for 6-7" of Mel's Mix plus mulch.

You are also correct about the inner measurements.  The inner measurements will be 46.5", so equally divided will make the square 11.6" on center.  This is not significant as far as spacing the plants.

The grid width does not interfere with planting.  I use 3/4"x1/4" PVC composite moulding for the grids and set it on the Mel's Mix.  I personally do not like permanently fixing the grid to the top of the bed as I like to remove the grid and move the driplines out of the way for cleaning out the beds and adding more blended compost each season.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Royal-Mouldings-6578-1-4-in-x-3-4-in-x-8-ft-PVC-Composite-White-Screen-Molding-0657808049/202089998

I personally recommend 2" (1 1/2") thick boards.  They don't bow out in longer beds and last longer.  Part of the garden on 2-22-2022.

Thank you, sanderson! I went with my instinct and bought 2x8 boards for my first beds, and I like how they came out.  I do tend to overthink. . .
Now I just need my vermiculite delivered so I can fill the beds.  Late for starting, but I just moved and I have to have fall color, so I made three 1x12 beds to line my front walk.  I will start with fall flowers and get my vegetable beds made over the winter so they are ready to go come spring.  Very excited to get started!

I was going to insert a photo, but can't figure out how.

Guinevere wrote:I was going to insert a photo, but can't figure out how.

Check out this thread on posting photos:

https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t21775-update-2017-how-to-post-a-picture-located-on-your-computer

OhioGardener wrote:

Guinevere wrote:I was going to insert a photo, but can't figure out how.

Check out this thread on posting photos:

https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t21775-update-2017-how-to-post-a-picture-located-on-your-computer

Thanks.  I guess I did figure it out, because that's what I did, but when I clicked "send" nothing happened.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough. I'll try again.

Guinevere wrote:Thank you, sanderson! I went with my instinct and bought 2x8 boards for my first beds, and I like how they came out.  I do tend to overthink. . .
Now I just need my vermiculite delivered so I can fill the beds.  Late for starting, but I just moved and I have to have fall color, so I made three 1x12 beds to line my front walk.  I will start with fall flowers and get my vegetable beds made over the winter so they are ready to go come spring.  Very excited to get started!

I'm excited for you! I also think and over-think before I make up my mind about the garden.

Can you do me a favor and report which real composts you are able to find in your area? They will be added to the compost list I am trying to build. Thank you

 H! Sanderson! Love your PVC setup! Would you share how you do this, esp, how you attach to the bed? I'd love to know. I just moved to Texas and built my first 2 L-shaped beds and my plants are doing good surprisingly that it hasn't rained here for 3 months with temps as high as 111 degrees. I want to try to see if I can keep the peppers going through the winter. Thank you!

sanderson wrote:Guinevere,  You are correct.  6" lumber is only 5 1/2".  When the new Edition comes out this will be corrected to 2"x8", resulting in a bed that is 7 1/2" high, room enough for 6-7" of Mel's Mix plus mulch.

You are also correct about the inner measurements.  The inner measurements will be 46.5", so equally divided will make the square 11.6" on center.  This is not significant as far as spacing the plants.

The grid width does not interfere with planting.  I use 3/4"x1/4" PVC composite moulding for the grids and set it on the Mel's Mix.  I personally do not like permanently fixing the grid to the top of the bed as I like to remove the grid and move the driplines out of the way for cleaning out the beds and adding more blended compost each season.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Royal-Mouldings-6578-1-4-in-x-3-4-in-x-8-ft-PVC-Composite-White-Screen-Molding-0657808049/202089998

I personally recommend 2" (1 1/2") thick boards.  They don't bow out in longer beds and last longer.  Part of the garden on 2-22-2022.

sanderson wrote:

Can you do me a favor and report which real composts you are able to find in your area?  They will be added to the compost list I am trying to build.  Thank you

I had trouble finding different composts.   I found Black Kow cow manure, some brand of mushroom compost that contains "composted forest products, regional compost, and mushroom compost," cotton burr compost, and a brand called Timberline Soil "Cow manure and compost."  

I just read someone's thread on mixing Mel's Mix and the importance of the compost, and now I think I need to go find more types of compost.  I got a bag of every different type I could find at Lowe's, and got the cotton burr compost at a local nursery.  But I see I have two cow manure types, so I guess I'd better go to Tractor Supply or somewhere else to find more types. 

I'd like to compost at home, but I have never been successful at composting on my own.  There's always too little food waste, so my pile ends up 90% grass and leaves, and I have never figured out how to get the right moisture/air mix, etc.  It's just too complicated.

It's better to have 3 good composts than to have inferior products to make 5 composts. The Timberline cow manure and compost, cotton burr, and maybe the mushroom blend compost may be just fine. Just limit the manure-based composts to 20% of the total compost in order to keep the phosphate from building up. Black Kow varies by region. More recent reports is that this once favored compost now has to be screened of wood and junk.

It is a good idea to screen all composts with a frame with 1/4" hardware cloth to remove wood chips or fines, and any material that did not finish composting.

Can you give me the brand names of the cotton burr and mushroom compost? Thank you.

sanderson wrote:It's better to have 3 good composts than to have inferior products to make 5 composts.  The Timberline cow manure and compost, cotton burr, and maybe the mushroom blend compost may be just fine.  Just limit the manure-based composts to 20% of the total compost in order to keep the phosphate from building up.  Black Kow varies by region.  More recent reports is that this once favored compost now has to be screened of wood and junk.

It is a good idea to screen all composts with a frame with 1/4" hardware cloth to remove wood chips or fines, and any material that did not finish composting.

Can you give me the brand names of the cotton burr and mushroom compost?  Thank you.

Yes, sorry: cotton burr is Back to Nature, and mushroom is Just Natural.

sanderson wrote:Guinevere,  You are correct.  6" lumber is only 5 1/2".  When the new Edition comes out this will be corrected to 2"x8", resulting in a bed that is 7 1/2" high, room enough for 6-7" of Mel's Mix plus mulch.

I recently purchased some 2"x8"x8' yellow pine boards to make a shelf in the greenhouse, and they are no longer 7.5"x1.5". They are now 7.25"x1.5".

OhioGardener wrote:I recently purchased some 2"x8"x8' yellow pine boards to make a shelf in the greenhouse, and they are no longer 7.5"x1.5". They are now 7.25"x1.5".

I suppose that was to be expected, as the next cost-cutting measure necessitated by this inflationary climate.  I just measured the 2x8 I bought last week, and it, too, is 7.25". 
 
1x6" lumber will become absolutely too shallow for SFG soon!  Good idea to edit the books to 1x8".

I'm going to update on my compost/vermiculite experience, because I am so frustrated right now. . . .Deep breath. . .

Timberline compost was a bust. I had wondered what the weird smell in my garage was, over the last few days, and when I opened the Timberline bag I realized the funk originated there.  Smelled like motor oil.  Two bags gone.  Could have been a fluke of that batch, but I'm returning it, and I doubt I'll trust it again.  Cotton burr compost may be ok, but I wasn't impressed with its look.  Brown instead of black, dry, dusty.  Black Kow was mediocre.  Mushroom compost was ideal. (Can't I please, please just use that?)

I was so disgusted with the look and feel of my composts as I was measuring out the three types I used (I hope you're right, sanderson, that 3 good ones are enough;  assuming all three are "good" and I am suspicious) that I was discouraged from the start of mixing.  I was working alone, on a huge tarp on my driveway, and I raked the clumpy, heavy piles around (didn't sift, that's another story) feeling grumpy about the whole experience (also going through huge mood swings of early menopause), when a fascinating thing happened.  I started pulling up the sides of the tarp to roll the pile for mixing, and as I worked my way around the edge of the tarp, the weight suddenly lightened and the compost rolled easily and began to look like a cohesive, mixed, crumbly, homogeneous pile, and my irritation faded away and I began to hope I will have a garden after all! 

Then I opened the bag of "A-3 Coarse Vermiculite" that I had ordered online with great hesitation, as the reviews were all over the place about how coarse it actually was, and I, being new to vermiculite for gardening, having no idea what the proper coarseness should look like, so photos were limited help, decided that reviews that mentioned using this product for SFG were numerous and positive, so I went for it. My first impression was. . . this doesn't look like the descriptions of coarse vermiculite Mel mentions, or what some of the photos looked like in the web listing.  



Is this coarse?  I have trouble with the term "coarse" because it is subjective.  The detail from Mel (I think it was he) that I remember is something like the pieces being "the size of the end of your thumb", and these are definitely not that.  My mood went south again and I marched inside to ask the advice of my betters on this forum.  

I did see around the forum mentions of a vermiculite list, and I searched and found some recommendations, and I hoped what I ordered would be right.  

So what now?  I think I will go ahead and use the bag I opened, since I have no other option right now, and I have flowers waiting to be planted.  And I just really want to complete a batch of MM, just to say I've done it, subpar as it may be.  This is just a 1-foot wide front path edging bed anyway, so I look at it as more of an early experiment to prepare me better for next spring when I plant my "real" SFG.  

The one ingredient I am not at all worried about is the peat! I've used that before.

I knew this would be a long post, but during the catharsis of writing it my peace and equilibrium came back, so worth it.  Thanks for reading!

Reading through your experience, you are ahead of the game compared to some other Newbies. I'm glad you feel better after putting it to pen.

First, you asked questions to begin with, so you don't have to correct anything. You instinctively knew that 2"x6" lumber wouldn't hold 6" of Mel's Mix. You found some real composts. You ordered the right vermiculite. All you have left to do is fluff the peat moss before measuring and wet the new Mel's Mix thoroughly. Everyone has their own way of wetting the MM. I did it by wetting the vermiculite and peat moss together first. Really wet. Then added the compost. That resulted in wet MM that drains well enough to plant the next day. Others put a couple inches of MM in the bed and water well. Repeat.

Yes, the vermiculite looks smallish but it is better than medium or fine. Super coarse is another option but what you have works. I use PVP Ind and sometimes Palmetto.

Regarding the color of the composts. If you look at OhioGardener's homemade compost in the "Closing beds for winter" thread you will see that they are brown. They will turn dark brown/blackish when wet and further composting occurs in the beds. Maybe at this point, use 2-3 bags of mushroom compost and 1 bag each of the others. ?? Timberline states on their website that their compost is made from different raw materials in different areas of the country. QC is not the same everywhere. I will delete Timberline from the thread "Recommended store bought compost - Photos of compost".

After you fill and plant the flower beds and you are happy, I recommend that you go ahead and complete the veggie beds. Fill 7" as well watered and top with bedding straw. My favorite is ready-to-use E-Z Straw with Tack from Tractor Supply. Come spring, you can pull off the straw and plant when the soil and weather is right. Replace the straw when it gets hot.

Okay, I'm off to bed. Oh, if you want to start your "journal" thread, please do. Some of us have a running narrative. "Guinevere's Arkansas SFG" or something fancier.

The local Lowe's today has a clearance sale on 2"x8"x12' yellow pine boards for $5.87. That is a very good price.  Since Lowe's will cut the boards to length at no charge, a person could purchase 2 of these boards, and have them cut into two 8' and two 4' boards, which would provide enough to build a 4'x8' raised bed for $11.74.

That's a good price, says this Californian.

OhioGardener wrote:The local Lowe's today has a clearance sale on 2"x8"x12' yellow pine boards for $5.87. That is a very good price.  Since Lowe's will cut the boards to length at no charge, a person could purchase 2 of these boards, and have them cut into two 8' and two 4' boards, which would provide enough to build a 4'x8' raised bed for $11.74.

Or two 4x4 beds using the one board left over from a previous project. . . 

That is a good price.  I bought 2x8x8 boards at HD last week for $.85/linear foot.  Your sale boards are only $.49/foot, so well worth stocking up.  I'll have to check my Lowe's for sale.

Oh!  I didn't notice that they were 12' boards! So many possibilities.

I like the smaller beds, 4x4, 3x5, 2x6, 2x8, over the big 4x8. More possibilities of north end trellises, custom skinny beds for bed hogs like summer squash, tomatoes, etc. This is a SFG project at a school.

sanderson wrote:Guinevere,  You are correct.  6" lumber is only 5 1/2".  When the new Edition comes out this will be corrected to 2"x8", resulting in a bed that is 7 1/2" high, room enough for 6-7" of Mel's Mix plus mulch.

You are also correct about the inner measurements.  The inner measurements will be 46.5", so equally divided will make the square 11.6" on center.  This is not significant as far as spacing the plants.

The grid width does not interfere with planting.  I use 3/4"x1/4" PVC composite moulding for the grids and set it on the Mel's Mix.  I personally do not like permanently fixing the grid to the top of the bed as I like to remove the grid and move the driplines out of the way for cleaning out the beds and adding more blended compost each season.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Royal-Mouldings-6578-1-4-in-x-3-4-in-x-8-ft-PVC-Composite-White-Screen-Molding-0657808049/202089998

I personally recommend 2" (1 1/2") thick boards.  They don't bow out in longer beds and last longer.  Part of the garden on 2-22-2022.

Sanderson, 
    Do you put your irrigation lines over or under the grid? I am unsure how to run irrigation with the grids. I would like to use soaker hoses.  

Thanks, 
Beachmom

Beachmom, I put the 1/4" inline drip lines on top of the Mel's Mix and the light-weight PVC grids on top. Mulch goes on the very top.

I like to remove the grids for major cleanup and adding more compost each season. For the 2 beds with string grids, I just unhook the string which is hooked around round-head screws (safety).