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Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
+11
lturner
GWN
shannon1
boffer
rhanford
Noie
quiltbea
HieronRemade
llama momma
landarch
sfg4uKim
15 posters
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Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
No matter how many times we read the book, there always seems to be a nugget that we skip over or forget about. SOOOOOO I'm going to share this one.
From pp 159-160 in the All New Square Foot Gardening book:
"Since a tomato plant can sprout new roots along its main stem, I have found that the best way to plant the main crop of tomatoes is to lay them down horizontally in a shallow trench. They will develop an enormous number of roots, all along that hairy stem, which will sustain a larger, more productive plant. Pick your best-looking plants, and pinch or cut off the lower leaves (at least two or three) so you have a stall skinny plant ready to plant in a lay-me-down position.
"To do this, you first locate the square foot it's going to be in, take your hand or a trowel, and dig out a long shallow trench, perhaps 3 or 4 inches deep in the middle of the square and as long as your tomato plant is. Make the trench long enough so you can lay down the plant with the root ball at one end. Dig a little deeper for the root ball and then lay the stem on the bottom of the trench. At the other end where the top is (remember you cut off most of the lower leaves), very, very carefully bend the top so it starts pointing up. You can take the Mel's Mix, an dpush it underneath that bent top to asct as a pillow, and if you're very gentle, you'll end up with the top sticking out of the soil at a slight angle. It does not have to point straight up; it just has to be aboveground. Fill in the rest of the trench and water well."
MY PERSONAL NOTE: I have done this for years and have one note to add. No matter how you to do this, be consistent where you put the root ball. For instance, I always put the root ball toward the back right corner and put my trench diagonally so that the top of the plant ends up in the center of the square. The reason for this is so that I know where to water. If I'm not consistent, I would have no clue where the roots are and have to water the entire square.
From pp 159-160 in the All New Square Foot Gardening book:
"Since a tomato plant can sprout new roots along its main stem, I have found that the best way to plant the main crop of tomatoes is to lay them down horizontally in a shallow trench. They will develop an enormous number of roots, all along that hairy stem, which will sustain a larger, more productive plant. Pick your best-looking plants, and pinch or cut off the lower leaves (at least two or three) so you have a stall skinny plant ready to plant in a lay-me-down position.
"To do this, you first locate the square foot it's going to be in, take your hand or a trowel, and dig out a long shallow trench, perhaps 3 or 4 inches deep in the middle of the square and as long as your tomato plant is. Make the trench long enough so you can lay down the plant with the root ball at one end. Dig a little deeper for the root ball and then lay the stem on the bottom of the trench. At the other end where the top is (remember you cut off most of the lower leaves), very, very carefully bend the top so it starts pointing up. You can take the Mel's Mix, an dpush it underneath that bent top to asct as a pillow, and if you're very gentle, you'll end up with the top sticking out of the soil at a slight angle. It does not have to point straight up; it just has to be aboveground. Fill in the rest of the trench and water well."
MY PERSONAL NOTE: I have done this for years and have one note to add. No matter how you to do this, be consistent where you put the root ball. For instance, I always put the root ball toward the back right corner and put my trench diagonally so that the top of the plant ends up in the center of the square. The reason for this is so that I know where to water. If I'm not consistent, I would have no clue where the roots are and have to water the entire square.
I have seen women looking at jewelry ads with a misty eye and one hand resting on the heart, and I only know what they're feeling because that's how I read the seed catalogs in January - Barbara Kingsolver - Animal, Vegetable, Miracle
sfg4u.com
FB: Square Foot Gardening 4 U
FB: Square Foot Gardening 4 U
tomatoes
Mels book also recommends to pinch side shoots on the growing tomato plants to create a vining condition...does this work with all indeterminate varieties (roma, cherry, regular, etc.)?
Does anyone have any good pictures of this method - maybe beginning, middle, and harvest)?
Does anyone have any good pictures of this method - maybe beginning, middle, and harvest)?
landarch- Posts : 1152
Join date : 2012-01-23
Location : kansas city
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
sfg4ukim -
Somehow must have done it wrong last year. Laid it down horizontal like Mel described (so I thought) and the upper stem pushed Mel's Mix out of the way and the darn thing stood up like a straight pencil. Tried a second time, laid it horizontal under the mix and put a small stone on the upper stem. Same thing happened. Maybe not planted deep enough? Thought it was kinda funny and gave up trying.
Somehow must have done it wrong last year. Laid it down horizontal like Mel described (so I thought) and the upper stem pushed Mel's Mix out of the way and the darn thing stood up like a straight pencil. Tried a second time, laid it horizontal under the mix and put a small stone on the upper stem. Same thing happened. Maybe not planted deep enough? Thought it was kinda funny and gave up trying.
llama momma
Certified SFG Instructor- Posts : 4921
Join date : 2010-08-20
Location : Central Ohio zone 6a
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
Hey Landarch - Yup you can do that w/ any indeterminate variety. This video goes into a lot of detail about pinching the suckers, and is awesome for other reasons (see the thread I made about it HERE).landarch wrote:Mels book also recommends to pinch side shoots on the growing tomato plants to create a vining condition...
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
I wouldn't remove the suckers on determinates. They are made to produce their whole crop within a week or 2 or 3 so that if you remove the suckers, you are removing a good bit of your current crop. I remove the suckers only on all my indeterminates which vine long and just keep growing until they freeze.
I have transplanted some horizontally and they did just fine.
I have transplanted some horizontally and they did just fine.
quiltbea- Posts : 4712
Join date : 2010-03-22
Age : 82
Location : Southwestern Maine Zone 5A
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
Thanks for the video! I really had no idea what the heck a sucker was. My tomatoes would have run rampant!
Noie- Posts : 63
Join date : 2012-01-22
Location : Independence, OR
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
llama momma wrote:sfg4ukim -
Somehow must have done it wrong last year. Laid it down horizontal like Mel described (so I thought) and the upper stem pushed Mel's Mix out of the way and the darn thing stood up like a straight pencil. Tried a second time, laid it horizontal under the mix and put a small stone on the upper stem. Same thing happened. Maybe not planted deep enough? Thought it was kinda funny and gave up trying.
I'm not sure if I understand this correctly, but the top IS supposed to grow straight up. Let me go a little further from the book (p. 160):
"In just a few days that top will straighten itself up, and at the same time all the new roots will start sprouting out from the main stem."
I have seen women looking at jewelry ads with a misty eye and one hand resting on the heart, and I only know what they're feeling because that's how I read the seed catalogs in January - Barbara Kingsolver - Animal, Vegetable, Miracle
sfg4u.com
FB: Square Foot Gardening 4 U
FB: Square Foot Gardening 4 U
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
@Noie - Yah I think that's a common source of confusion for new gardeners, particularly SFG'ers. I read and read and couldn't understand it until I found some videos like that one.
@Llama Momma - Call me crazy but I think that's exactly what your tomatoes were supposed to do! The ends are supposed to grow upward so you can weave them through the trellis right?
@Llama Momma - Call me crazy but I think that's exactly what your tomatoes were supposed to do! The ends are supposed to grow upward so you can weave them through the trellis right?
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
I was trying to say the entire stem stood up even though it was buried. Think of a pencil laying flat on a table then stand it up to write. That is what the entire plant did. So there wasn't any available stem to grow more roots. Kinda crazy huh?
llama momma
Certified SFG Instructor- Posts : 4921
Join date : 2010-08-20
Location : Central Ohio zone 6a
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
I've always just waited until the plant is about 8-12", pulled off the bottom leaves (2 or 3), and planted it straight down. I've never "laid" them down. What would the advantage be to "laid" down vs straight down?
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
In a SFG box, straight down is less than six inces! The trench method works well; the stem that is showing doesn't have to be propped at exactly 90°. It can be at 45° and it will straighten up vertically as it grows and adjusts.. When you break a plant (and sooner or later you will!) the plant stem can be stuck in MM or water and it will re-root.
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
@Momma - Oh wow, that is weird! Yah I have no advice for that lol...
@rhanford - I think there are a couple reasons...when you lay it down, it can more easily take advantage of the nutrients across the whole square by having roots along a line instead of just in a ball in the middle. Also, I think having it that way puts the plant in a better position for weaving into the trellis netting. Oh and it also provides more of a "foundation" for the plant, which isn't as big a deal for indeterminates that are trellised, but might help w/ bush varieties since one of the few downsides of SFG is that the plants can't anchor themselves as well in 6" of MM.
@rhanford - I think there are a couple reasons...when you lay it down, it can more easily take advantage of the nutrients across the whole square by having roots along a line instead of just in a ball in the middle. Also, I think having it that way puts the plant in a better position for weaving into the trellis netting. Oh and it also provides more of a "foundation" for the plant, which isn't as big a deal for indeterminates that are trellised, but might help w/ bush varieties since one of the few downsides of SFG is that the plants can't anchor themselves as well in 6" of MM.
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
@H.R. - thanks for the video...extremely helpful (I'm a visual person so I like to see things done in addition to reading).
landarch- Posts : 1152
Join date : 2012-01-23
Location : kansas city
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
landarch wrote:@H.R. - thanks for the video...extremely helpful (I'm a visual person so I like to see things done in addition to reading).
Np, I totally understand! Despite a lot of reading I couldn't wrap my head around it until I saw a video.
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
llama momma wrote:I was trying to say the entire stem stood up even though it was buried. Think of a pencil laying flat on a table then stand it up to write. That is what the entire plant did. So there wasn't any available stem to grow more roots. Kinda crazy huh?
Really crazy!
Regarding trenching vs. just planting it deeper (p.160):
"Some books may advise you to dig a deep hole, and plant the tomato straight down deep so just the top leaves show, thus burying the stem. This is okay, but that puts the plant quite deep in the ground and usually it's still springtime and the ground is still fairly cool. So I've found the lay-me-down method will make the plant grow much faster, because the soil at that level is warmer, by perhaps as much as 10 degrees."
I have seen women looking at jewelry ads with a misty eye and one hand resting on the heart, and I only know what they're feeling because that's how I read the seed catalogs in January - Barbara Kingsolver - Animal, Vegetable, Miracle
sfg4u.com
FB: Square Foot Gardening 4 U
FB: Square Foot Gardening 4 U
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
Thanks for the answers! I guess I have never really had to worry about soil temps being in FL, but it is great to know!
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
I don't grow my own transplants for tomatoes. When I am picking out my new babies I pick the smallest, stocky plants, pinch off all but the very top leaves and bury them straight down up to thier little necks. The plants roots defenatly fill the whole square and beyond. If you do this you must use small plants and make sure they are not pot bound or stressed out. If there are any flowers at this time (I try and find ones with no flowers if possible) pinch them off so the energy can go to root and leaf development. Don't worry the plant will make lots more flowers very soon. As the plants grow I also pinch off any leaves that touch the ground (to prevent disease as that is a problem here), as well as the suckers.
shannon1- Posts : 1697
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : zone 9a St.Johns county FL
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
a slight variation, I did last year. I cut holes in the bottom of the pots that the seedlings were growing on and essentially just set them on top of the soil. The reason I did this, was that I was not sure if my raised beds were deep enough for tomatoes. I now read that they likely are deep enough for tomatoes (after reading about SFG)
So essentially each plant had a little "cuff" of dirt and then the roots went down below.
This worked well in that I could water and especially add compost to a very specific area.
My tomato plants had extremely thick central stalks and were incredibly productive.
But it did give the plant more roots.
So essentially each plant had a little "cuff" of dirt and then the roots went down below.
This worked well in that I could water and especially add compost to a very specific area.
My tomato plants had extremely thick central stalks and were incredibly productive.
But it did give the plant more roots.
GWN- Posts : 2804
Join date : 2012-01-14
Age : 67
Location : british columbia zone 5a
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
Ha that's a really interesting idea GWN, I never would have thought of that. That would probably be great for the plants in terms of not disturbing their root systems too, which would put less stress on the plants and keep growth from slowing down while they recover!
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
Can anyone recommend a YouTube video or pictures for the "lay down" method for tomatoes? I am a visual learner!!!
thanks!
thanks!
lturner- Posts : 11
Join date : 2012-01-14
Age : 49
Location : Knoxville
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
lturner wrote:Can anyone recommend a YouTube video or pictures for the "lay down" method for tomatoes? I am a visual learner!!!
thanks!
Turner ,
Try this link it shows it in the first few seconds of the clip when he plants the first tomato plant , the others are for vertical planting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozHhKfM_C7o
Last edited by plantoid on 2/11/2012, 11:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
plantoid- Posts : 4096
Join date : 2011-11-09
Age : 73
Location : At the west end of M4 in the UK
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
lturner wrote:Can anyone recommend a YouTube video or pictures for the "lay down" method for tomatoes? I am a visual learner!!!
thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqiBbkL4CY (Tomato starts at 2:25). I'd probably put it a little deeper than he does.
I have seen women looking at jewelry ads with a misty eye and one hand resting on the heart, and I only know what they're feeling because that's how I read the seed catalogs in January - Barbara Kingsolver - Animal, Vegetable, Miracle
sfg4u.com
FB: Square Foot Gardening 4 U
FB: Square Foot Gardening 4 U
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
In addition to making the Trench (lay-me-down) method work without breaking the tomato plant is to Lay the tomato plant down on its side and use an object to hold it down a few inches from the tip. Leave it like this for two to three days and the tip will turn upward and make trench planting easier without breaking the stem. Don't forget to turn it upright and water....then lay back down every day.
I have also seen this done with using a plank board (1x4, 2x4 )and tie the plant stem to the board where you are wanting it to turn upwards, lay the board down until the tip grows upward.
then remove board, plant in trench
I have also seen this done with using a plank board (1x4, 2x4 )and tie the plant stem to the board where you are wanting it to turn upwards, lay the board down until the tip grows upward.
then remove board, plant in trench
CarolynPhillips- Posts : 779
Join date : 2010-09-06
Age : 54
Location : Alabama Zone 7a
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
lturner wrote:Can anyone recommend a YouTube video or pictures for the "lay down" method for tomatoes? I am a visual learner!!!
thanks!
Lol! Me too! I keep
I am my gardens worst enemy.
RoOsTeR- Posts : 4316
Join date : 2011-10-05
Location : Colorado Front Range
Re: Mel's Advice - Lay Tomatoes Down
nKedrOoStEr wrote:lturner wrote:Can anyone recommend a YouTube video or pictures for the "lay down" method for tomatoes? I am a visual learner!!!
thanks!
Lol! Me too! I keep
43 years a gardener and going strong with SFG.
https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-weeks-until-frost
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance. ~ Henry David Thoreau
https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t1306-other-gardening-books
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