Square Foot Gardening Forum
[table bgcolor=#000000 height=275][tr][td]
Trellis height vs. plant weight Toplef10Trellis height vs. plant weight 1zd3ho10

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.

Trellis height vs. plant weight I22gcj10Trellis height vs. plant weight 14dhcg10

[/td][/tr][/table]
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 

 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» The SFG Journey-Johnson Su Bioreactor for composting, No turning
by has55 Today at 7:10 pm

» Birds of the Garden
by sanderson Today at 7:05 pm

» Sqft Gardening w Transplants
by AtlantaMarie Today at 6:29 pm

» Butterfly Junction
by AtlantaMarie Today at 6:22 pm

» Senseless Banter...
by countrynaturals Today at 2:08 pm

» What are you eating from your garden today?
by countrynaturals Today at 1:12 pm

» Update on Marie's mom
by sanderson Today at 12:08 pm

» New England August, 2019
by hammock gal Today at 10:19 am

» Cover Crops??
by OhioGardener Today at 8:41 am

» SFG FOUNDATION NEWSLETTER - AUGUST 2019
by Dan in Ct Today at 8:34 am

» I love gardening!
by AtlantaMarie Today at 8:07 am

» Sanderson's Urban SFG in Fresno, California
by AtlantaMarie Today at 8:03 am

» SFG Troubleshooting
by sanderson Yesterday at 12:53 pm

» Happy Birthday!!
by sanderson Yesterday at 12:17 pm

» Hello from Gilbert. AZ
by sanderson Yesterday at 11:53 am

» CANADIAN REGION: what are you doing in August 2019
by Kelejan Yesterday at 11:26 am

» new to Louisville Ky
by sanderson Yesterday at 11:18 am

» Fifth Year SFG in Canada
by sanderson Yesterday at 11:16 am

» Famous Gardening Quotes
by Dan in Ct Yesterday at 7:20 am

» Cape gooseberry
by OhioGardener 8/21/2019, 6:46 pm

» August Avatar: Beat The Heat!
by countrynaturals 8/21/2019, 11:52 am

» Rosemary -- What do you do with it?
by LilBittyBean 8/21/2019, 11:49 am

» N&C Midwest: August 2019
by OhioGardener 8/21/2019, 11:35 am

» How's the Weather Where You're At?
by OhioGardener 8/21/2019, 8:20 am

» LED grow lights......any advice?
by RJARPCGP 8/20/2019, 3:33 pm

» Identification needed
by Scorpio Rising 8/18/2019, 11:40 pm

» Faith-based Community Garden
by johnbmarek 8/17/2019, 10:40 pm

» First Timer. Zone 5b 8x8 SFG
by crankyoldman 8/17/2019, 12:17 pm

» Cheerleaders needed, please. This is daunting.
by countrynaturals 8/17/2019, 10:52 am

» Anyone Seeing Ads?
by countrynaturals 8/17/2019, 10:45 am

Google

Search SFG Forum

Trellis height vs. plant weight

Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  Megan on 11/2/2010, 9:09 pm

I was just discussing this with someone in chat (hi, Camprn! Smile ) and it occurred to me that I don't think I've seen this mentioned anywhere, though I may have overlooked it.

I built my conduit trellises to 6.5 feet tall intentionally. I'm 6' tall myself, and I figured if I made the trellises 6.5 ft, the plants would probably grow a foot or so taller than the trellis and I'd be able to harvest fairly comfortably (pole beans, etc.) with a trellis of that height.

Well, first of all... if your trellis spans a 3 or 4 foot SFG the way mine did, you end up trying to balance on your boards and reaching up in the middle and hoping you don't fall on or step in your MM, so please don't do that if you can help it. Very Happy

Second of all... my conduit actually sunk into the ground a bit on top of the rebar. This may be partly because my beds were built on a slope--the upslope upright being sunk in more to keep it level --but my back bed is pretty flat and had the same problem.... the weight of the plants eventually drove the conduit into the ground about 5 inches. (And I do mean "ground".... my trellises were anchored outside the boxes themselves.) I pulled them up repeatedly and they always sank back down again.

SO..... my tentative suggestion is this: You might want to cut your conduit a little long. If you don't have the same trouble I did, you can always pound it into the ground. I would really like to hear if anyone else has observed the same issue.... Have you??? :?:
Megan
Megan

Female Posts : 3350
Join date : 2010-04-27
Age : 52
Location : Manassas, VA - Zone 7a

View user profile http://novasquarefootgardener.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  acara on 11/3/2010, 6:35 am

The electricians conduit strips do a good job of keeping the mounting post secure (they have little tabs on the interior surface that contacts the pipe & gouge into the plastic slightly)

Also if you put a mat (as shown in my pic below), or small square scraps of wood (free) under the base of the conduit, to increase the "footprint" of the distributed weight..... they wont penetrate the ground (Pressure = force/area ...... the pieces of wood make "a" larger, and "P" smaller). Any old piece of wood/metal that's at least twice the diameter of the pipe will work. for each time you double the footprint (in respect the the pipe diameter), you cut the applied/transmitted force in half (roughly).

Trellis height vs. plant weight Pbucket



Here are the conduit straps ... 1/2" and 1" ... metal and plastic work the same (would suggest the metal for the folks up north who get freezing temps).

Trellis height vs. plant weight Pbucket
acara
acara

Male Posts : 1012
Join date : 2010-08-27
Age : 49
Location : Wesley Chapel, Florida (Zone 9)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Conduit sink?

Post  ander217 on 11/3/2010, 7:21 am

My conduit trellis has held up amazingly well all summer, even with several butternut squash and all kinds and sizes of tomatoes hanging from it. However, just in the last few days I've noticed a problem in my one of my wide trellis spans which contains the Cherry-Tomato-that-is-Trying-to-Eat-Missouri.

I have two 1' x 8' boxes next a 3-ft. tall hog panel fence. We made a long span of trellis by pounding rebar into the ground every four feet next to the fence to support 6-ft. conduit uprights, then we connected them across the top with 4-ft. lengths of conduit to make one trellis that is 6' x 16'. We tied string from the tops of the hog panels to the top of the trellis framework and it has worked very well. However, one of the middle conduit pieces is sinking into the ground as you describe, but none of the others are, so it looks as though the trellis is sagging at that point. The rest of the frame is keeping it up, but I'm not sure where it would be at this point if it was standing alone.

I wonder if it would help next year to mound some gravel around the base of the rebar before placing the uprights over them? Or maybe place some large washers around the rebar before setting the uprights?
ander217
ander217

Female Posts : 1450
Join date : 2010-03-16
Age : 64
Location : Southeastern Missouri (6b)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  acara on 11/3/2010, 11:39 am

Anything that changes your footprint, or prevents penetration, should help.

For a cheap fix, you probably just need to go to Home Depot and get a Plastic Rebar Cap


Put the rebar cap on the end that you are putting in the ground, dig/poke a small hole in the ground, as deep as you want the rebar to go, insert rebar with cap and then backfill.

For a free solution, just bury a empty vegetable/fruit can, insert the rebar and backfill.

I suspect both methods will enlarge the footprint enough to prevent the rebar from penetrating farther in the ground than you want it to.
acara
acara

Male Posts : 1012
Join date : 2010-08-27
Age : 49
Location : Wesley Chapel, Florida (Zone 9)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  boffer on 11/3/2010, 12:01 pm

I understand the problem described to be that the conduit that is over the rebar is sinking into the ground, not the rebar itself. The same principle that acara mentioned, applies.

If this is the case, then the right size washers would help.

Or a piece of wood, plastic, or metal with a 1/2 inch hole drilled in it, to slip over the rebar for the conduit to set on.

Or, a hole is drilled horizontally into the rebar at ground level for a nail to slide through, and the conduit sits on the nail.

Or, buy a cheapo non-brand name Vicegrip (is 'locking plier' the generic term?) at a garage sale for 50¢ and fasten it to the rebar for the conduit to sit on.

Or, get a straight conduit fitting, attach it to the appropriate blank box cover, and you'll have a 'foot'.
boffer
boffer

Male Posts : 7392
Join date : 2010-02-26
Age : 66
Location : yelm, wa, usa

View user profile http://boffer.us/

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  acara on 11/3/2010, 12:21 pm

Ahh .... thanks boffer... I misread that....... but yes, "footprint" still applies.

My rebar is full length up to the right-angle-bends & sits very snug inside my PVC, so when one sinks, both sink simultaneously under weight.

Then again, we are all sugar-sand where I live & we have no rock/stone in the soil ...... so everything sinks here (especialy when it rains).
acara
acara

Male Posts : 1012
Join date : 2010-08-27
Age : 49
Location : Wesley Chapel, Florida (Zone 9)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  camprn on 11/3/2010, 2:15 pm

If it were me, to prevent the sliding down of the conduit, I would crimp the conduit just above the end of the rebar, It may work, it may not.... Trellis height vs. plant weight 27650
camprn
camprn

Forum Moderator Certified SFG Teacher

Female Posts : 14169
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 56
Location : Keene, NH, USA ~ Zone 5a

View user profile http://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-week

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  boffer on 11/3/2010, 2:53 pm

It would work, but you'd have a real wrestlin' match on your hands if you ever wanted to separate them to move the conduit trellis.
boffer
boffer

Male Posts : 7392
Join date : 2010-02-26
Age : 66
Location : yelm, wa, usa

View user profile http://boffer.us/

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  WardinWake on 11/3/2010, 3:59 pm

[quote="Megan"]Well, first of all... if your trellis spans a 3 or 4 foot SFG the way mine did, you end up trying to balance on your boards and reaching up in the middle and hoping you don't fall on or step in your MM, so please don't do that if you can help it. Very Happy

Megan:

Instead of putting our climbing veggies on a trellis attached to a 4X4 or 4X8 SFG we built the trellis on 2X8 SFGs and did not have the stepping in the bed to harvest problem. We also attached the metal condiut to the beds with u-straps. My soil is not overly sandy and we may not have needed to use the straps, but, the straps did add increased support. The straps were tight against the condiuit and may have prevented any sinking into the ground.

God Bless, Ward and Mary.


WardinWake
WardinWake

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 935
Join date : 2010-02-26
Age : 69
Location : Wake, VA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  Megan on 11/3/2010, 7:13 pm

Thank you, Ward. That is good info!

Fortunately, in the backyard I will have MUCH more control over box size and layout. The biggest general problems, as I see them so far, will be (in no particular order):

  • Husband's ham radio antenna (aka the wire clotheslines strung here and there at a height to catch me in the throat!)
  • Sunlight / shade issue
  • Tree roots and keeping boxes level-ish
  • The triffid rosebush
  • Mosquitoes of Much Hungriness
  • The lock on the back gate and the French Doors of Doom

But that's a story for next year.... Very Happy
Megan
Megan

Female Posts : 3350
Join date : 2010-04-27
Age : 52
Location : Manassas, VA - Zone 7a

View user profile http://novasquarefootgardener.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  miinva on 11/4/2010, 12:01 am

I'm a big fan of 2 foot wide beds, it makes things MUCH easier. Dealing with the center of the 4x4 beds is a real pain for us short people Razz
avatar
miinva

Female Posts : 778
Join date : 2010-04-29
Age : 50
Location : Central Virginia, 7A as far as I can tell

View user profile http://www.ungardener.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  ander217 on 11/4/2010, 9:23 am

@boffer wrote:
Or a piece of wood, plastic, or metal with a 1/2 inch hole drilled in it, to slip over the rebar for the conduit to set on.

I like this idea better than the washer - I'm thinking a used canning jar flat lid would work and wouldn't have the sharp edges as would something like a tuna can lid. It would also have a bigger footprint than a washer. I think next year I'll make enough of these for all the conduit uprights.

Thanks, Boffer and Acara.
ander217
ander217

Female Posts : 1450
Join date : 2010-03-16
Age : 64
Location : Southeastern Missouri (6b)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  WardinWake on 11/4/2010, 10:54 am

@Megan wrote:Thank you, Ward. That is good info!

Fortunately, in the backyard I will have MUCH more control over box size and layout. The biggest general problems, as I see them so far, will be (in no particular order):

  • Husband's ham radio antenna (aka the wire clotheslines strung here and there at a height to catch me in the throat!)

    Megan: Hubby's ham radio antenna would make a wonder trellis for the rappa squash or cukes! Nice and strong and high enough to grow even the tallest vine!


  • Sunlight / shade issue

    How many hours of sun does/will the SFG's get? 6 to 8 hours are fine for most SFG crops.

  • Tree roots and keeping boxes level-ish

    One way to defeat tree roots is to put a solid bottom in your SFG even if it is on the ground. A few drain holes and you are in like flint.

  • The triffid rosebush

    Rose bush? No suggestion there.

  • Mosquitoes of Much Hungriness

    IMHO there were no biting mosquitoes in the Garden of Eden. Adam invited them in!

  • The lock on the back gate and the French Doors of Doom

    Yep. I have been smacked in the nose with French Doors.


But that's a story for next year.... Very Happy


All gardeners are like Washington Redskins fans. Next year will be better!


God Bless, Ward and Mary.
WardinWake
WardinWake

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 935
Join date : 2010-02-26
Age : 69
Location : Wake, VA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  Megan on 11/4/2010, 2:07 pm

@WardinWake wrote:
Megan: Hubby's ham radio antenna would make a wonder trellis for the rappa squash or cukes! Nice and strong and high enough to grow even the tallest vine!
I think he might have something to say about that, though.... Smile


[*]Sunlight / shade issue
How many hours of sun does/will the SFG's get? 6 to 8 hours are fine for most SFG crops.
I have never tracked sun/shade hours back there, so I really don't know. It is surrounded by trees on 3 sides and the house on the other. It DOES get light, but it's filtered/dappled at least some of the time.


[*]Tree roots and keeping boxes level-ish
One way to defeat tree roots is to put a solid bottom in your SFG even if it is on the ground. A few drain holes and you are in like flint.

I am not worried about tree roots getting into the boxes, but the ground is uneven because of them. Some shimming will be inevitable, I suspect... and I agree, I think I'm going to need bottoms on the boxes. Most of the backyard is covered with landscaping fabric already. Will have to talk to dh about it... I am considering doing some TTs, too.

Boffer, thank you for the "washer" idea as well as the bottom fitting for the conduit making feet. I will try it next year. I think my biggest challenge in the back yard will not be the conduit sliding down, but getting the rebar into the ground through the tree roots. Time to borrow a sledgehammer....
:nail:
Megan
Megan

Female Posts : 3350
Join date : 2010-04-27
Age : 52
Location : Manassas, VA - Zone 7a

View user profile http://novasquarefootgardener.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Trellis height vs. plant weight Empty Re: Trellis height vs. plant weight

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum