To Compost or not to Compost that is the question...

Scorpio Rising wrote:Valid point, how do you just let a pile "be"?  Just concentrate on the new pile and let the old one deflate?  I have 2 full buckets of greens, mostly coffee grounds and kitchen scraps, and plan to put them on my new pile, topped by some leaves....or should I put leaves, then buckets, then more leaves?  My straw got delayed due to flooding

I try to layer my piles as I'm building them.  Once they get to a large enough size they'll start cooking but they can sit mixed together in layers for quite a while before I get to that point.  My dogs get into the kitchen scraps and we had a recent ER vet visit with one dog eating mold (it can kill them) so I put anything I'm concerned about in my tumbler that they can't get to.  

When I have enough to make a large enough pile I'll fork through it 10 or 12 times to get air in, moisten it if needed then start with the next layers until its complete.  Hope that helps.  The longer I've composted the less rigid I've become.  Time + stuff = compost (eventually!)

I just got this load from my neighbor today, it's his chicken pen clean out and his rabbit's poo pile mixed together.  The trailer is about .6 cu. yard.  The start of my pile was leaves, fresh cow manure and bedding.  It hasn't heated up much because of the rain but the earthworms are just teaming in there.  Probably over a thousand in the one pile without exaggeration.  



The cow operation on our property has a couple spoiled hay bales I'm going to get soon so I'll have a MASSIVE pile going for spring.  I turn it more or less in a crawling pile fashion.  I'll start at one end and turn everything over a couple of feet and continue working down the pile sort of like a catepillar crawling    

Since I don't turn in my compost, but simply put a bit in the hole I'm planting in then mulch a couple inches on top of everything with it it doesn't matter if some of it is uncomposted.  It will break down and work it's way into the soil just like it does in nature (aided by my red wiggler workers).

I don't have to worry too much about losing nutrients in my compost piles as I build them where I'm going to expand my garden (plant flower beds or veggies).  It builds that soil up as well as creating the compost that I'm replenishing my SFG beds with.

At my old house, I had a traditional Rodale garden with compost pile. It was right there, so, like you, it was where the plants were going. It was easy and a no brainer. I would literally just kind a spread it around and hoe it in periodically, mostly spring.

Now, I have a pile and a new pile directly adjacent with it, the old pile is from all last spring/summer, and I would think will be ready by Spring. The one on the left is from the garden stuff that got chopped down, and scraps, etc. And the now frozen additions. So, I think I should layer the browns and greens on my "new " pile in hopes that it heats up for spring. And then I move the compost the SFG.

I think I need to be less weird about having "completed" compost and just stick it in there. That is what I used to do, I never looked this close at it ever. Honestly.

Make sense?

Scorpio Rising wrote:I think I need to be less weird about having "completed" compost and just stick it in there.  That is what I used to do, I never looked this close at it ever.  Honestly.

Make sense?

YUP 

If it has big pieces in it you can screen it and toss the pieces into your second pile.  I really only get super rigid about composting when I'm desperate for a quick load then I'll do a perfect Berkeley method pile and know I'll have some finished compost in just over a month.  

I actually want piles that "cook" different ways so their nutritional make up will be slightly different.  Completely cold composted I get strong fungal activity, hot I get bacterial activity and the product brings different benefits to the plants.

audrey.jeanne.roberts wrote:

Scorpio Rising wrote:I think I need to be less weird about having "completed" compost and just stick it in there.  That is what I used to do, I never looked this close at it ever.  Honestly.

Make sense?

I really only get super rigid about composting when I'm desperate for a quick load then I'll do a perfect Berkeley method pile and know I'll have some finished compost in just over a month.  

And, I do Berkeley piles because I don't have room for a caterpillar row as Audrey described, nor room for a second bin, which I would really love to have.  The current pile is 18 days old, turned 5 times so far, the last time yesterday.  The temp is back up to 160*F.  When it quits heating up after introducing oxygen through turning, it's almost ready to use.  I think I finally have enough stockpiled compost that I won't have to make a pile in the HOT summer. I do think turning, be it Berkeley or slower methods, helps a pile by further mixing the contents (layers), introducing air and allowing one to check the moisture.

WHOA!!  Here comes the cold for Virginia!  Can't complain, it's been a real mild winter so far, Mid 60's on Christmas day.  Anyway, had a decent hard frost Sunday and Monday morning and then this morning 16 degrees!  Ugh.  I hate the cold.
Anyway, had the typical "woe is me" thought this morning, I JUST filled up my new tumbler on Saturday and then the weather turns cold.  It's probably a block of ice now, haven't had a chance to check yet.  It's a conspiracy I tell you the weather is scheming against me on my compost plans!  
Will be interesting to see if my compost piles can stay steady through this cold snap.

sanderson wrote:

audrey.jeanne.roberts wrote:

Scorpio Rising wrote:I think I need to be less weird about having "completed" compost and just stick it in there.  That is what I used to do, I never looked this close at it ever.  Honestly.

Make sense?

I really only get super rigid about composting when I'm desperate for a quick load then I'll do a perfect Berkeley method pile and know I'll have some finished compost in just over a month.  

And, I do Berkeley piles because I don't have room for a caterpillar row as Audrey described, nor room for a second bin, which I would really love to have.  The current pile is 18 days old, turned 5 times so far, the last time yesterday.  The temp is back up to 160*F.  When it quits heating up after introducing oxygen through turning, it's almost ready to use.  I think I finally have enough stockpiled compost that I won't have to make a pile in the HOT summer.  I do think turning, be it Berkeley or slower methods, helps a pile by further mixing the contents (layers), introducing air and allowing one to check the moisture.

Sanderson is "Queen Berkeley!"  If you have any questions on it she's got it nailed 

Weather update:  I think it's colder this morning than it was yesterday.  Brrrrrr.  When I got home yesterday I went to just check on my compost piles, because I'm weird that way, and the "door" to the tumbler was frozen shut   Yeah, going to need for this cold snap to pass before that is going to get started.  
Main piles were about 10 degrees cooler, pushing them to the bottom of the "working" phase.  I'm afraid my microbes and bacteria may go dormant if this weather keeps up.  At least I'm not in Canada?  I think I read yesterday someone from Canada had "negative" temperatures.  Ouch.  I hate the cold.

Update:
Old pile about 9-10 weeks, cool, < 80 degrees
New pile about 3-4 weeks, cool, about 80 degrees
Flipped both piles Saturday.  Weather has been cold for past week, but material in my new tumbler (about 1 week) was a little warm.  It's trying to do something.

Material in old pile.  Looking good, breaking down/crumbling.


Material new pile.  You can see the difference time makes.  Darkening up nicely, but still "chunky".  Mostly leaves the chunky material.


Thought this was interesting.  Picture of my new pile about "mid-flip" into the pile.  There was a lot of white looking stuff around the straw and rabbit poo.  Kind of "ashy"looking.  I assume it's some sort of fungus that has spawned up.  Pile was steaming pretty good at this point, but due to temperature differential (outside air/inside air) rather than really hot core temperature.  Seen something similar before around manure and straw.  I think it's a "straw thing".  Kinda jumped out at me because of darker color of surrounding material.


My "operation" with piles covered in camo tarp and "stockpile".


My new tumbler "in-action".  Isn't she cute

I get all excited when I see the white stuff. Actinomycetes bacteria according to Cornell.

Thank you Sanderson!  So there is something to it.  I'll have to look into that.  Sounds like it's a good thing. 

P.S.  Sounds like I'm going to have to start bringing my wife with me to flip the compost piles though. 

sanderson wrote:I get all excited when I see the white stuff.     Actinomycetes bacteria according to Cornell.

Me too, especially when I think of all those bacteria devouring nutrients through their outer shell, then hoarding them until they either die or get eaten by protozoa. Then the protozoa  provides the food for the plants rhizosphere

WOW...what fabulous information I am getting from this book...A little technical, I'm sure others can get more out of it than I am...I'll probably need to read it a dozen times. About a quarter way through and still going.

Wow, timely post! I took advantage to the last warmish day Saturday to dump a bunch of kitchen scraps and a layer of leaves on my piles. As I was scraping up the leaves, I noticed a buch of obvious fungiform whitish growth on them, and there had been some discernable breakdown of the leaves themselves. YAY! Put it all on the new pile and old pile only leaves. Camo tarped and tucked her in.

Good thing! Woke up to rain that had turned to snow, and now it is frozen solid! Night night, little microbes, sleep tight!

Gotta share, I was so surprised!
Ended up home early yesterday (before dark), went to check on my compost piles and the new pile was up to 120!  Woot!
Flipping and getting air in the piles made a big difference.  Both were about 80 before the flip.  I don't know temp of old pile, moved the thermometer and I'll check later.  Doubt it heats up a lot because it's further along on material break down.  We'll see.

Dont'cha just love it when the pile reacts to your labor?

jimmy cee wrote:Dont'cha just love it when the pile reacts to your labor?

+1

We want the whole world to know about composting and soil and . . .

When ever I see bare land that just consists of dust, I want to do something about it.
Cover it with something, anything, for a start.

Up until 4 years ago when I first found out about the real true way to garden...S..F..G.. my wife used to tell me
about compost... I always said (((under my breath to myself)))   what does she know ? she's only a woman.....
Then I read about the program that changed my senior life forever...In that process was compost...(((what does she know........))))...Now truthfully I am enjoying composting as much as gardening....If I had my life to live over, I know I'd be entering the agriculture field... I'm considering picking up some sort of microscope to see whats going on in that Mel's Mix...maybe to expensive for me, however worth a shot...

Kelejan wrote: We want the whole world to know about composting and soil and . . .

When ever I see bare land that just consists of dust, I want to do something about it.
Cover it with something, anything, for a start.

Yes, I get the same feeling. Cover it with something, anything!

jimmycee, I, too, would love to have a microscope to see what's going on in that world we cannot see.

Kelejan wrote:jimmycee, I, too, would love to have a microscope to see what's going on in that world we cannot see.

I'm going o keep that thought, imagine being able to capture photo's from it???

No pictures this week
I was into flipping the piles and again I came across a lot of "white stuff", I reached for my phone to take a picture and didn't have it on me.  Too lazy to go back to the house and get it.
The "old pile" (11 weeks +/-) is definitely done "heat" wise.  Sure it's still a little warmer than exterior temperature, but definitely in the "mellowing" range.  However, parts of the material are definitely starting to break down to fines.  Had a few spots where my manure fork just passed right through without picking up anything.  I'm pretty confident this pile will be ready to go by April with just some continued maintenance of turning/mixing.

"New pile" (about 4 weeks now?, maybe a little more) is coming along.  I had the temperature unexpectedly shoot up to about 120 after hovering around 90 for a few weeks.  Temperature was down to about 100 when I flipped this passed Saturday.  We got a little snow on Sunday,  we're looking at a some cold weather in near future with snow possible again on weekend.  Hope it doesn't shut my "microbes" down, I'd like the new pile to "cook" a little more.  

SANDERSON will be proud of me, I have not added anything new to EITHER pile for weeks   Partly because I got the new tumbler for Christmas and have been adding to that, it's about full now (both sides).  I kind of have a third pile that I'm adding too, but TECHNICALLY I call that my stock pile.  That's just a pile I happen to put stuff in to get ready for composting later...   Actually, this "pushing through the winter" thing I think is going to work out.  Not only should I have compost ready to go first thing for Spring, but because I'm still actively gathering materials I'll have a pile of material to get new piles going as soon as I harvest the finished compost piles.  So, I should be able to get my compost piles going in time frame (spring) I'm more comfortable with right away as opposed to starting building them and gathering material.

Mine are frozen solid. Thaw soon maybe, then add in to new pile

Awesome job!  

My big pile is pretty much waterlogged.  It's at the base of a hill and it has rained so much that the water is seeping through the hill from the property above us.  It's like a spring sprouted right at it's base.  Oh well... it's not stinky, just wet.  It will eventually dry out and we'll start the pile again.  

My tumbler is full now, I put 4 gallons of kitchen waste in there today to top it off.  Not sure what I'm going to do with the next kitchen waste.  I get 4 gallons in about 2 weeks or so.  Yikes!  So much rain is good when we've been in drought for so long but I've forgotten how to deal with so many rain issues!

You are all cordially invited to services being held for my deceased compost piles.
They passed away this week after a valiant fight against sub-freezing temperatures.  They will be buried this weekend under a predicted 2' of snow.    

 I have joined Scorpio in that I can stand on the frozen crust of my compost piles now.  When I spin my tumbler now it has a funny wobble to it as the solid mass inside spins on the axis.  Its been pretty dag-on cold for about a week straight now and a significant snow storm is predicted for this weekend, starting today in a few more hours.  
Well, nothing I can do now, but wait for this to pass and then hopefully be able to stir up my piles again afterwards and hope "breathing some air" into them will revive them.  That's if all my "microbes" don't die from the cold.

My condolences, lol!  Oh well, cycle of life and all that it will revive in the spring.

Keep safe and warm!!!!