Another planting consideration

Let's see, we have to think about companion planting, and rotating, and tallest to shortest, and trellis vs. non. BBG reminded me of another:

BackyardBirdGardner wrote:... I see what Mel says about not planting in rows. The two broccoli in another bed have holes in the leaves while the two broccoli in the main bed are fine. If I planted them in with the others, I'd have holes in all 4.

To plant like plants altogether or spread them out? The answer is what works best for you.

I usually spread plants out. I've had experiences similar to BBG's, where plants in one box get infested with bugs, and plants in other boxes don't get touched. Spreading out gives me a quality check of my MM. If all the plants are growing about the same, then everything is normal. If plants in one box are slow/poor looking, then I may have a problem in that box. Plants grow at different rates each summer. I just have a better feel for what is normal in a given summer when like plants are spread out.

On the other hand, putting all your eggs in one basket, so to speak, makes it easier to cover all the same plants with bug netting or shade cloth. For the tinkerers, it makes it easier to add whatever you are using. It could make it easier to water a certain way as well.

Decisions, decisions!

Boffer, you are so right. Decisions, decisions!

When I had all my cabbages side by side I easily tossed light row cover over them and had no flea beetle problems all season.

But this year I'm separating everything, except pairing peppers so they can 'brush shoulders' which I understand they like. That way they'll deplete only their own nutrition needs and there'll be energy left in the soil for other plants next year. Some plants may have a problem but others may miss that same problem. Its experimentation when you become an SFG'r.

I'm also keeping plan records so I know what is growing in each square so next year a different crop family will take its place. For me, that's a fun part of gardening. I love planning.

Holy cow, Boffer just overthought something!! Alert, alert....close the garden gates. Keep the crazies inside!!

I like to consider myself more a "minimalist" when I'm probably not. I like to consider myself a simpleton whenI'm probably not. Truth is: I'm a lazy s.o.b. of a gardener but can overthink things with the best of them.

However, the laziness usually wins out. I don't worry about companion planting at all. I rotate by randomly mixing up my squares because that will keep things separated from the buggies...two birds, one stone. I add compost and have learned to water with compost tea when things look like they need a little pick-me-up. However, I also have some turbo juice (MiracleGro) on hand, too, when I feel I really need a quick shot in the arm.

One day, I'll have a better system figured out......if I don't overthink that, too.

To each his/her own! There are three things we should all have in common here, and I think we know what they are...

Happy Gardening!

Um, rather than have detailed plans which I'll forget to update, file somewhere and just lose I'm going for a keep it simple half and half approach. Main "cottage" garden - herbs and veg mixed in with fruit and flowers, SFG beds Bug Netting and if something fails in the "cottage" side hopefully there'll be some or something else in the SFG side or vice-versa.

BackyardBirdGardner wrote:Holy cow, Boffer just overthought
something!! Alert, alert....close the garden gates. Keep the crazies
inside!!

BackyardBirdGardner wrote:However, I also have some turbo juice (MiracleGro) on hand, too, when I
feel I really need a quick shot in the arm.

What do I have to do to get you to put down the Miracle Grow Bottle, walk away slowly and switch to Fish Emulsion? Is a 12-step program necessary here?

What do I have to do to get you to put down the Miracle Grow Bottle,
walk away slowly and switch to Fish Emulsion? Is a 12-step program
necessary here?

Yet another consideration here though is at what stage of the plants growth are we needing to inject this...."shot in the arm" and what part of the plant is your edible part. If your lettuce needs a boost then yes....fish emulsion is perfect as it is a 5-1-1 balance of macro nutrients (N-P-K). The higher Nitrogen ratio will induce copious vegetative growth and naturally, that is what you want because you eat the leaves.

However, if your crop is needing the shot in the arm around blossom / fruit set time, then fish emulsion is NOT the correct choice unless balanced with something higher in the P-K. Perhaps then a balanced Miracle grow is apropos but better liquid organic choices do exist IMO (but I would use it in a pinch if it meant life or death). Tomatoes for example benefit from early applications higher in nitrogen producing leaf and stem growth. As blossoming occurs though, switch to fertilizers which are higher in Phosphorus and Potassium. Too much Nitrogen fertilizer at blossom time results in lots of lush green leaves, and little fruit or certainly less than you might have gotten.

To chime in with spacing or clustering similar crops, personally I do both depending on crops. I will put basil and tomato together in the same box alternating squares as they companion nicely and to give the maters a little more room to wiggle. I see the benefit in both but I'm too OCD with visual patterns to be able to put things all over the place so my spacing is still patterned. Besides, some crops (ie Broccoli) get soooo big that not only does it shade out other smaller crops of the the cooler season such as Lettuce / spinach etc but its roots become big bullies and overrun the smaller plants squares, essentially choking them out and stunting growth.

Sorry to muddy the waters .... just some more things to ponder and go mad over.

Decisions Decisions indeed :scratch:

After all that said..... you can always try the "pin the tail on the donkey" method of planting your boxes. I bet that will work for some just as good too

To be short and not derail the thread, I found a fabulous bargain on 20-20-20. I am a proponent of balance fertilizers in just about everything I do. If it won't burn, I'll give it a college try. That said, 20-20-20 is walking a very thin line on the "burn" idea.

Oh, and I'm not an "organic" guy, nor am I all that concerned with being "green." I like the ideas, but often times it is a more expensive way to go....and requires much more time and effort. See "laziness" above.

I water my impatiens with MiracleGro about every two weeks. They get to about 24-30 inches tall by Labor Day....and thick....lemme tell ya about thick. They usually slow traffic when people drive by because they are so big peope swear they aren't impatiens. I learned that from my Nana.

I swore I'd try to give nitrogen to tomatoes this year until they start to blossom. Then, I switch off to a little lower "balance" fertilizer. With the middle and last numbers being 20, also, I couldn't resist. That's the highest I have seen. So, college try again.

I knew I'd get a little flaming for saying so, but I am a "full disclosure" kinda guy. What you see is what you get, and I ain't ashamed to tell you...lol. Sometimes I get into trouble with that attitude, well most times...

staf74 wrote:...After all that said..... you can always try the "pin the tail on the donkey" method of planting your boxes. I bet that will work for some just as good too

I like that, Staf. That's exactly how I do my planting!

BBG - since you opened yourself up to the flames, I will give you a light toasting. I have no problem with Miracle Gro - I no longer use it but I won't tell someone they shouldn't. My issue is Roundup. It is vile. As one who raises gray treefrogs and monarch butterflies in an attempt to slow down their deteriorating rates, I have to say this stuff is awful. Here is what savethefrogs.org says:

"Roundup (also sold as Touchdown Total) is lethal to gray treefrog and leopard frog tadpoles, and most likely a host of other as yet untested frog species. Roundup is one of the most commonly applied herbicides in the USA; it's produced by Monsanto, the same folks who gave us Agent Orange. Over half of the DNA found in frogs is also found in humans, so if these pesticides kill frogs, imagine what they do to us! "

It eventually works its way into groundwater supplies and since frogs lay their eggs in water and because their skin is so soft and absorbant it poisons them at an alarming rate. Please, please reconsider using it. Help me save the frogs!

BackyardBirdGardner wrote:
I knew I'd get a little flaming for saying so, but I am a "full disclosure" kinda guy. What you see is what you get, and I ain't ashamed to tell you...lol. Sometimes I get into trouble with that attitude, well most times...

Hey, are you my long lost twin?

Sorry for de-rail, oops.

I'm also sorry for the derail - I couldn't remember in which post he talked about Roundup so I plopped it here. Sorry boffer!!

boffer wrote:

staf74 wrote:...After all that said..... you can always try the "pin the tail on the donkey" method of planting your boxes. I bet that will work for some just as good too

I like that, Staf. That's exactly how I do my planting!

+1

Barkie wrote:

BackyardBirdGardner wrote:
I knew I'd get a little flaming for saying so, but I am a "full disclosure" kinda guy. What you see is what you get, and I ain't ashamed to tell you...lol. Sometimes I get into trouble with that attitude, well most times...

Hey, are you my long lost twin?

Sorry for de-rail, oops.

+1 Triplet?

Personal choices are just that and when you make personal decisions on what to eat and how it was produced / grown etc, no one gives two hoots or should not as you are not affecting anyone/thing else. Perhaps the grey area lies where unintentional and/or willful neglect comes into play where your decision then negatively impacts others or other things (said case of froggies) down the line, especially if another perhaps less aggressive option was available. Do we have a responsibility to take a second look at that choice? Personally, I think yes but all you can do is plead and nudge. The moment you pontificate or patronize (which no-one is doing), you've lost a potential opportunity to initiate positive change. But....Free will trumps all; whether rightly or wrongly.

I believe the round-up reference Nancy was on a thread relating specifically to a type of invasive grass. We have bermuda here and I don't fight it as bad as I could in my boxes by raising them on gravel but it does break though somewhat often and I hand pull it. Its kinda fun watching the runner pull up and unravel. That does NOT take care of it by any stretch and I know it will be back in the very same spot in another couple of weeks but I just can't bring myself to use Round-up. That example is obviously FREE of $$$ and an easy one to make as I like manual labor....wierd??...not in my world...I'm a P.E teacher by day; in good shape and use my garden in lieu of a trip to the gym at times. Some just don't have the time / inclination or endurance for physical tasks. Each to their own. It is what it is.

I'm trying to be conscience of being greener all the time but this whole notion is certainly not where the OP was heading. Sometimes threads just morph into jello and so I'll yield to Boffer but happy to continue a respectful discussion wherever it may lead. Not wishing to turn up the heat on BBG here because you have to admire his candidness and honesty.

This thread is very detrimental to us newbies! Have a heart, guys! Things are overwhelming enough the first time around!

cabinfever wrote:This thread is very detrimental to us newbies! Have a heart, guys! Things are overwhelming enough the first time around!

Methinks you be a potential candidate for said "pinning of tail on the donkey" method of planting

Editing this to contain the following info. Be gald to help with ANY question you may have. PM me also if needed.

I'm the last person to be offended by the derailing of a thread. I'll just derail it in another direction!

You guys can play with your concoctions and timing all you want.

In the meantime, I'll be obstinate, obnoxious, and obtuse about staying true to the directions in the ANSFG book, as I plod along year after year, happy as can be with the results that I get. It could be that I'm slow, or lazy, or lack the Type A gene, or just aren't interested. But the amount of money and time you guys spend on indiscriminate applications of amendments on your gardens, just doesn't sound appealing to me.

I don't doubt that some of those applications are beneficial. But until you start comparing your results against a control box, in the the same year, you aren't acquiring data that is beneficial in the long run...you're just playing in the dirt.

FOOD FIGHT!!!!!!

Sorry to affect the newbies...lol. Like I said, I try to keep things simple most times. So.....not my fault.....neener neener neener....lol.

Also, we need a emoticon with serious flames coming out of it in a funny way. I could have some serious fun with that one....and I assume others could, too.

I agree that we should try and be green when presented the choice. But, I believe money is also a deciding factor. As is time and effort.

One thing I will add is that using RoundUp DOES affect other people and other things....case in point.....Nancy. So, even though I have the choice and right to make said choice, I need to be cognisant of the fact I DO affect others with EVERY choice I make.

See, I can flame myself, too. I do it all the time. Y'all just ain't round to herr it.

@ Boffer......

Enjoying the movie......whatever will happen next?

BackyardBirdGardner wrote:@ Boffer......

Pshaw! My broccoli can beat up your broccoli any day!

Here is a link to an on fire mad smiley face, camprn used it and I cant get it to work here.. what the heck am I doing wrong.

Here is the link though
http://www.cakedot.com/on_fireMadSmiley.gif

Ha-v-v

'What it's like to get old...when the act of eating hot peppers is more painful exiting than entering!'



Think Johnny Cash...'And it's burn, burn, burn, the ring of fire, the...'

Ok how did you make it work I copied and pasted that and it didnt work this is what happened when I did \


I figured it out..

boffer wrote: 'What it's like to get old...when the act of eating hot peppers is more painful exiting than entering!'



Think Johnny Cash...'And it's burn, burn, burn, the ring of fire, the...'

Boffer, you're just too funny! I got a good chuckle out of this one.