Compost questions for my Mel's Mix

goodtogrow wrote:don't use cow manure because it has heavy metals in it, as well as weed seeds

markqz wrote:Welcome goodtogrow!

goodtogrow wrote:don't use cow manure because it has heavy metals in it, as well as weed seeds

Well, I hope not! If cow manure has heavy metals in it, I don't see how beef or milk could help but also have heavy metals also.

goodtogrow wrote:. . .
I've narrowed it [composts] down to the following 5 or 6 sources:
- Composted cattle manure (from a nearby farm) Is it piled up and just aged, or did he compost it?  Composting involves high temperature that kill pathogens and weed seeds.
- Composted chicken manure (from a local garden centre), apparently made locally.  But recently I was told that composted chicken manure is not great because it can be lacking in "good and bad bugs"...?  Phooey.  If the manure was composted, the "bad bugs" / pathogenic microbes will be dead.  As the compost cools, the "good bugs" or microbes reestablish in the cooling product.  And, like Mark stated: I also doubt that microbe populations couldn't be restored once they're mixed in with the other composts, no matter what their starting conditions.
- Bagged compost from the local Co-op store (has some peat in it, but will compensate).  Not really sure what's in this one, but I think some of it is from the forestry industry.Good, you already know to compensate for the addition of peat moss in some compost.  Forestry byproducts usually means wood chips or sawdust from the milling process.  That's fine.  But, find out what high nitrogen material was used.  Just be prepared to sift it (in, fact, ALL composts with a 1/4" hardware cloth secured to a frame.  You will be using it over and over, even if you make home made compost.  Sifting removes visible wood chips, rocks, bottle caps, straws, etc.
- Worm castings (spoke to a legitimate soil scientist phd and he said it's ok to use more than 10% of worm castings, up to 25%, and that worm castings are also a root stimulator, so they're also very good for seedlings and young plants)We recommend 10% because they are rich and you will be using composts, also.  Worm castings are expensive compared to some other cheaper kinds.  Hopefully the castings weren't made in beds with some added peat moss or that PM was added post harvest.  I visited an organic grower who only used worm castings as fertilizer in his row gardens (dirt).  But, he had a mega worm bin, like 20' x 3' x 4'.  And, it was used as an organic fertilizer.
- Miracle-Gro Sea Compost This also contains peat moss
- A local product called "Sea Soil" - made from "fish waste" (not sure what exacty that is, and they don't elaborate) and wood fines.  It's in all the stores up here in BC.  Heard some good and some bad reviews (I can't post the link yet, apparently I'm too new on here).  Supposed to be pretty good when mixed with soil like in a Mel's Mix.Their web site mentions tree bark, not wood chips.  It may be okay, but since it will only be a percentage, you can try it.  Again, get out that sifter!!

I'm steering clear of all municipal city compost because I just don't trust that many people contributing to a pile of compost for growing vegetables from - someone somewhere is going to be a bad apple (pardon the pun!) and potentially poison the mix.Some folks have good luck with municipal compost.  Others steer away.  We used it in our non-veggie beds, where it is not such an issue.  You worry about "bad apples," I think doggie presents and germination suppressants used as part of weed control.  I know, I know, municipal waste is hot composted and is safe to use.

Also, I've since been told other conflicting info such as "don't use cow manure because it has heavy metals in it, as well as weed seeds" (from the Sea Soil people - but she's probably just promoting her own product, who knows).

My questions are:
- Is cattle manure commonly known to contain heavy metals (in small farms here in North America)?  How is it even possible to know other than a lab test?  Where would these heavy metals come from?  Apparently plants absorb them.This is a quote: "Some heavy metals, like iron and zinc, are essential nutrients at low concentrations but toxic at high concentrations. Other non-essential heavy metals, like cadmium, mercury, and lead, are toxic even at relatively low concentrations." from the USGS. If cattle were grazing on land of a previous industry or military base, I would be concerned.  But then again, the rancher / dairyman would be wondering why the bovine didn't thrive or had low viable births.  Metals come from the earth (rocks and soil) so we can't get away from them entirely.  We recommend a limit of 20% manure-based compost because of salts.  Oh, and weed seeds?  If the manure was heat composted, the weed seeds will be dead.  Go out in a field and collect cow patties, then yes, there will be weed seeds.  
- Does composted manure have weed seeds?Shouldn't
- Sea Soil brand compost has wood fines and fish waste - are wood fines "bad"?  I think I read someone on here say they were.  If so, why?Wood fines or bark are not composted if you can see them in a compost.  They offer no nutrients until they are fully broken down.  That's why we are leaning towards sifting ALL composts.  
- Is composted chicken manure devoid of "good and bad bugs" (micro-organisms)?See early comments.
- Has anyone had any experience with Miracle-Gro Sea Compost?
EDIT (two more questions!):
- What is biochar and is it good to throw into my Mel's Mix?  Where would I get some?SFG doesn't use additives such a biochar.  We use composts to provide carbon and the compost and coarse/super coarse vermiculite have good electrical conductivity.
- What about throwing in a little bone meal and blood meal?  Worth it?Nope.

It sure has been a struggle to find decent compost options.  Mainly because the more I learn the more questions I seem to have!

Anyway, this forum looks great, and I look forward to any help.  Thanks very much.

sanderson wrote:

goodtogrow wrote:. . .
- Composted cattle manure (from a nearby farm) Is it piled up and just aged, or did he compost it?  Composting involves high temperature that kill pathogens and weed seeds.
It is composted.

- A local product called "Sea Soil" - made from "fish waste" (not sure what exacty that is, and they don't elaborate) and wood fines.  It's in all the stores up here in BC.  Heard some good and some bad reviews (I can't post the link yet, apparently I'm too new on here).  Supposed to be pretty good when mixed with soil like in a Mel's Mix.Their web site mentions tree bark, not wood chips.  It may be okay, but since it will only be a percentage, you can try it.  Again, get out that sifter!!
Yeah, I guess they use "forest fines" (an industry term for bark, forest soils, needles etc.).

I'm steering clear of all municipal city compost because I just don't trust that many people contributing to a pile of compost for growing vegetables from - someone somewhere is going to be a bad apple (pardon the pun!) and potentially poison the mix.Some folks have good luck with municipal compost.  Others steer away.  We used it in our non-veggie beds, where it is not such an issue.  You worry about "bad apples," I think doggie presents and germination suppressants used as part of weed control.  I know, I know, municipal waste is hot composted and is safe to use.
Well, I'm talking about people intentionally adding chemicals and other things that aren't destroyed in the composting process.

Just my personal suggestion:  Use one manure-based as 20-25%, one sea-based, some co-op compost, and some worm castings.  Buy one bag of each and sift for quality.  ??  Make a sifter with 1/4" hardware cloth fastened to a frame, large enough to sit on the wheelbarrow or what ever collection unit you use.  Adjust for peat content.
Okay, I will put together a sifter.

Thanks again, Sanderson!

sanderson wrote:Soose, I merged your 2 newer topics into "Soose in North Alabama."  I mentioned Florida in the reply above.  My mistakes as you are in Alabama.

sanderson wrote:Soose, I merged your 2 newer topics into "Soose in North Alabama."  I mentioned Florida in the reply above.  My mistakes as you are in Alabama.

goodtogrow wrote:I ended up ordering my vermiculite from Uline.  

goodtogrow wrote:Sorry, just curious, but does anyone have any further insights to my original questions above?

I ended up ordering my vermiculite from Uline.

Compost is next on our agenda.  I think I'm going to reduce the manure amount to 20-25%, as recommended, though.  Especially since I read that it is usually the culprit when it comes to MM compaction in the next year or so.  Any other answers or adivce is much appreciated.  Thanks again!

Chuck d'Argy wrote:Are there prefered worm casting online vendors?