Re: Fourth Year SFG in Canada

**trolleydriver** 3/4/2018, 8:04 am

sanderson wrote:TD, What is on the right and what is on the left? Did I miss something?

On the left are seeds sown in potting mix. On the right are seeds started on damp paper towel and then transferred to potting mix covered in vermiculite.

**sanderson** 3/4/2018, 11:34 am

Okay. Quite a difference.

**trolleydriver** 3/5/2018, 3:12 pm

This is funny. Someone on the "Edible Ottawa Gardens Group" Facebook page has given me the title "Ottawa's Trellis King" after I posted photos of my trellises.

**AtlantaMarie** 3/6/2018, 8:40 am

TD, I'm assuming that you germinated these seeds at the same time...? If so, that's a HUGE difference!

Hmmm..... (insert scratching head emoticon here)

**trolleydriver** 3/6/2018, 8:46 am

AtlantaMarie wrote:TD, I'm assuming that you germinated these seeds at the same time...? If so, that's a HUGE difference!

Hmmm..... (insert scratching head emoticon here)

Actually no. I should do another experiment starting them at the same time. However, I think the seeds germinated in damp paper towels will win the contest.

**AtlantaMarie** 3/6/2018, 8:55 am

Okay. What was the time difference between planting/germinating them?

And I agree that would be a good experiment!

**trolleydriver** 3/6/2018, 9:23 am

AtlantaMarie wrote:Okay. What was the time difference between planting/germinating them?

And I agree that would be a good experiment!

AM ... Sorry but I don't remember. The main purpose was to test the viability of seeds I saved from squash that I grew in the SFG. I know that it only takes a couple of days for them to germinate in damp paper towel in an enclosed container on a heat mat set to about 80F.

SQWIB 3/6/2018, 1:17 pm

trolleydriver wrote:
yolos wrote:Wow TD, you really have that Aerogarden going good.
Thanks yolos.

Now I'm running out of liquid nutrients to put in it. The cost of AeroGarden nutrients is ridiculous here in Canada. Amazon wants $13 for a 3 oz bottle and $39 for a one quart jug. Add sales taxes and shipping and it is insane. In fact, the whole AeroGarden concept is outrageously priced. Amazon USA charges $25 USD ($32 Canadian) for the 1 quart size. Unless I can find a cheaper local alternative I expect my AeroGarden will be retired after this season. Luckily I only paid about $60 Canadian for it.

Nute Mix per 5 gallons for Kratky Lettuce (20-18-38)

10 grams Calcium Nitrate Fertilizer 15.5-0-0
10 grams Hydroponic Tomato Fertilizer 4-18-38
5 grams epsom salts Magnesium Sulphate

(N) Nitrogen (P) Phosphorus (K) potassium

**trolleydriver** 3/6/2018, 5:26 pm

SQWIB wrote:
trolleydriver wrote:
yolos wrote:Wow TD, you really have that Aerogarden going good.
Thanks yolos.

Now I'm running out of liquid nutrients to put in it. The cost of AeroGarden nutrients is ridiculous here in Canada. Amazon wants $13 for a 3 oz bottle and $39 for a one quart jug. Add sales taxes and shipping and it is insane. In fact, the whole AeroGarden concept is outrageously priced. Amazon USA charges $25 USD ($32 Canadian) for the 1 quart size. Unless I can find a cheaper local alternative I expect my AeroGarden will be retired after this season. Luckily I only paid about $60 Canadian for it.
Nute Mix per 5 gallons for Kratky Lettuce (20-18-38)

10 grams Calcium Nitrate Fertilizer 15.5-0-0
10 grams Hydroponic Tomato Fertilizer 4-18-38
5 grams epsom salts Magnesium Sulphate

(N) Nitrogen (P) Phosphorus (K) potassium

Thanks SQWIB. Is that solution only good for lettuce? One of my concerns is messing up the innards (e.g., pump) in the AeroGarden. As well I know AeroGarden's nutrient solution is buffered correctly.

**sanderson** 3/8/2018, 3:41 pm

trolleydriver wrote:This is funny. Someone on the "Edible Ottawa Gardens Group" Facebook page has given me the title "Ottawa's Trellis King" after I posted photos of my trellises.

Your winter squash trellis is probably the winning vote. It is beautiful.

**trolleydriver** 3/8/2018, 5:28 pm

sanderson wrote:
trolleydriver wrote:This is funny. Someone on the "Edible Ottawa Gardens Group" Facebook page has given me the title "Ottawa's Trellis King" after I posted photos of my trellises.
Your winter squash trellis is probably the winning vote. It is beautiful.

Thanks sanderson. Mega trellis comes through for a win!

Another look at it from 2017.
Fourth Year SFG in Canada - Page 4 Img_4411

Fourth Year SFG in Canada - Page 4 Img_4811

**trolleydriver** 3/8/2018, 6:16 pm

Some small onions grown last year and stored indoors have started to sprout. So I prepared them for planting indoors. Let's see what happens.
Fourth Year SFG in Canada - Page 4 Img_2091

Fourth Year SFG in Canada - Page 4 Img_2091

**sanderson** 3/10/2018, 2:52 pm

that trellis! I am trying Canadian Crookneck again this summer. Total failure last year.

**trolleydriver** 3/10/2018, 6:49 pm

sanderson wrote: that trellis! I am trying Canadian Crookneck again this summer. Total failure last year.

sanderson, I would like to try some other squash as well as the Canada Crooknecks on the trellis. Do you think I could also try some pole beans on the same trellis?

**trolleydriver** 3/12/2018, 11:14 am

The germination test Canada Crookneck Squash are looking healthy. Can't keep growing them indoors. It hurts to have to get rid of them.

Plans for this week are to start peppers indoors and do some more Winter Snowing. Weather is around the freezing mark with snow today and tomorrow.
Fourth Year SFG in Canada - Page 4 Img_2093

Fourth Year SFG in Canada - Page 4 Img_2093

Fourth Year SFG in Canada - Page 4 Img_2092

**sanderson** 3/12/2018, 2:05 pm

Aren't beans and winter squash companions as in 3 Sisters? Just not 8-9 per square! Wink

**trolleydriver** 3/12/2018, 3:20 pm

sanderson wrote:Aren't beans and winter squash companions as in 3 Sisters? Just not 8-9 per square!

+1

**trolleydriver** 3/12/2018, 3:39 pm

S, do you think this will work? Maybe put only two bean plants per bean square. There are two squares for each squash plant. I would like to experiment with different type of beans but may not do it because Mrs TD does not like pole beans.

Fourth Year SFG in Canada - Page 4 Bean-s10

Fourth Year SFG in Canada - Page 4 Bean-s10

**sanderson** 3/12/2018, 4:21 pm

"Are you feeling lucky?" What about 4/square straight down the middle?

**trolleydriver** 3/12/2018, 5:28 pm

sanderson wrote:"Are you feeling lucky?" What about 4/square straight down the middle?

Could work sanderson. My only concern is getting too much foliage from the beans and shading the squash. BTW last year I used some squares in the middle row for radishes and carrots. The beans would definitely be an experiment of different kinds.

From a couple of seed exchanges I have the following pole bean seeds:

Skunk (Chester) - (4 seeds)
Blauhilde Purple - (10 seeds)
Winterburn - (9 seeds)
True red Cranberry - (11 seeds)
Rattlesnake - (5 seeds)

My winter squash seed collection consists of the following:

Canada Crookneck - Baker Creek and saved
Butternut - DollarSeed
Green Hubbard - DollarSeed
Spaghetti - seed exchange
Loofah (sponge) - seed exchange

My bias is toward the Canada Crookneck but it would be nice to try one of each of the other varieties of squash if that is possible. Can I mix up the Squash on the same trellis? If I do that I expect any saved seeds will not be true if they cross-pollinate (yes/no?)

I also still have to decide whether or not to build another bed (2x4) and trellis along the walkway next to the garage. That would be good for only four squash but would accommodate plenty of beans.

As usual, decisions, decisions, decisions. thinking

**sanderson** 3/13/2018, 2:31 pm

trolleydriver wrote:My bias is toward the Canada Crookneck but it would be nice to try one of each of the other varieties of squash if that is possible. Can I mix up the Squash on the same trellis? If I do that I expect any saved seeds will not be true if they cross-pollinate (yes/no?)

I have grown 4 different winter squash in the same bed/trellis set up. I imagine the seeds would not true.

I also still have to decide whether or not to build another bed (2x4) and trellis along the walkway next to the garage. That would be good for only four squash but would accommodate plenty of beans.

As usual, decisions, decisions, decisions.

I have to chuckle. SFG is so addictive that it's hard to stop adding just one more bed and what to plant. Maybe for this summer, you continue with the radishes and carrots down the middle of the winter squash bed with just a couple of beans in the alternating squares as you originally discussed. thinking

**Turan** 3/13/2018, 7:23 pm

In general squash all cross wildly, at least within the different groups. CC and butternut are c.moschata, and has to be pollinated by other moschata, or itself. That was the mistake I made last summer, I grew a c. moschata with a c. pepo in the greenhouse. The bees and I were not getting the right pollen in the right flowers so I was getting no fruit. Then I slapped myself up side the head with a squash leaf and pollinated moschata with moschata etc. I think I heard that moschata CAN pollinate at least some maxima, but my source is a murky half memory Embarassed

Luffa is a distant cousin of squash and cucumbers, Luffa aegyptiaca, and is not going to cross with any of them.

Zuccini, and other summer squash, and spaghetti squash, and acorn squash are all c.pepo and cross wildly, happily, and sometimes bizarrely. However, in my experience, NOT with c. maschata Embarassed

Hubbard is c. maxima.

So my thought is that with all 3 different types of cucurbits, plus their cousin the luffa, you will need to help the bees get the right pollen into the right flowers.

In a 3 sisters garden the pole beans grow up the corn, and the squash sprawls around the edges being protective. The big leaves of squash make it hard on its neighbors. I doubt the beans would do well, but it is certainly worth the experiment, you have room and seeds. Does your wife like bush beans better? Those might live under trellised squash quite well.

I wonder, could you grow those cute CC seedlings of yours in a 5 gallon bucket inside? As a reminder that spring will come. A pretty vine draped on a window.....

**trolleydriver** 3/13/2018, 8:07 pm

Thanks Turan for all that good info.

**sanderson** 3/14/2018, 2:40 am

Thank you for all the info, Turan.

**trolleydriver** 3/14/2018, 8:46 am

Turan wrote:In general squash all cross wildly, at least within the different groups. CC and butternut are c.moschata, and has to be pollinated by other moschata, or itself. That was the mistake I made last summer, I grew a c. moschata with a c. pepo in the greenhouse. The bees and I were not getting the right pollen in the right flowers so I was getting no fruit. Then I slapped myself up side the head with a squash leaf and pollinated moschata with moschata etc. I think I heard that moschata CAN pollinate at least some maxima, but my source is a murky half memory

Luffa is a distant cousin of squash and cucumbers, Luffa aegyptiaca, and is not going to cross with any of them.

Zuccini, and other summer squash, and spaghetti squash, and acorn squash are all c.pepo and cross wildly, happily, and sometimes bizarrely. However, in my experience, NOT with c. maschata

Hubbard is c. maxima.

So my thought is that with all 3 different types of cucurbits, plus their cousin the luffa, you will need to help the bees get the right pollen into the right flowers.

In a 3 sisters garden the pole beans grow up the corn, and the squash sprawls around the edges being protective. The big leaves of squash make it hard on its neighbors. I doubt the beans would do well, but it is certainly worth the experiment, you have room and seeds. Does your wife like bush beans better? Those might live under trellised squash quite well.

I wonder, could you grow those cute CC seedlings of yours in a 5 gallon bucket inside? As a reminder that spring will come. A pretty vine draped on a window.....

Turan

1. Does that mean I need at least two c.moschata, two luffa, two c.maxima, etc. for proper pollination?

2. Mrs TD likes golden wax bush beans which I usually grow in other beds but could try in the squash/trellis bed.

3. Re the indoor bucket for the Squash. Our only suitable window is in the living room. Not sure Mrs TD will go for it but it would be interesting to see just how long I can keep them going. I could be wrong but I think there may be flowers developing on some of them. They sure like the heat mat but I need the room on the mat for other other things.

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