Hello from the Great White North

Hi gang, my name is Marc, 42, and I'm in Belleville Ontario, couple of hours east of Toronto. 

Last year we tore down an old shed next to my house and now I have an ugly 10x10 shallow hole in the ground. I wanted to just fill it in and put grass seed, but I thought it would be a good place for a garden. Very close to the house, good sun, easy access to the hose. I've never tried a garden before, in fact I kind of hate gardening (flowers), but they look nice when its done. 

I'm planning on a raised bed 10 or 12 inches, and originally thinking 4'x8' or keyhole shaped, but tonight I had a vision of an L shaped bed, 4' deep. In it, I was hoping to plant tomatoes, cherry tomatoes, green beans, cukes, carrots, lettuce, swiss chard, peppers, spinach, coriander and basil. I don't know if that's overkill, thoughts?  We have a couple of guinea pigs, so a lot would be their snacks. I won't plant anything we don't like, other than chard, haven't tried that...

I haven't read any of the SFG books, I just picked up a book by our local weatherman Frankie Flowers called 'Food to grow' and I am learning a lot. I'm trying not to spend a lot of money so I don't know about making MM, our local nursery sells a grow mix soil that I think I will try. 

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it, I will take pictures of my progress, and would love any advice you can offer.

Thanks!

StrongAsMeat ... welcome to this great forum. I am just down Highways 401/416 from you in Ottawa. Please, please read the All New Square Foot Gardening Book. I also recommend going with Mel's Mix. Last year I put in two 4'x4' SFG beds with MM and they worked out really well. Compare the cost of MM versus the cost of the grow mix at the nursery. Remember that with MM you only need to purchase the vermiculite and peat moss once! After that it just requires a trowel full of compost each time you replant a square. And you do not need to add fertilizer. By the way I can get vermiculite here in 4 cu ft bags for about $26 to $30. I also continue to grow some veggies (e.g. tomatoes and potatoes) in regular soil but may gradually convert everything over to SFG starting this year.

Welcome from North Carolina! After you read the ANSFG book, take some time perusing the threads here too. FWIW - I originally set up my beds over 5 years ago and let them sit for a couple of years. I finally got back into gardening and I was able to use the MM I mixed up when I started. I just had to add compost. My point being that Trolley is correct that you only have to buy it once. If you don't want to do the entire thing with MM, perhaps you do a small section and experience the ease of SFG'ing.
Even if you don't use the SFG method, everyone here will still be glad to help as best they can.

Hi Marc, Welcome to the Forum from California! Oh, please read All New Square Foot Gardening for a whole new look at gardening. Less space, more produce, less water, no weeding, no fertilizer. The hole can be filled and leveled with any fill. The mix needs to be only 6" deep for all but deep roots like carrots, parsnips, etc. For 2 bags of vermiculite you can build three 4' x 4' beds 4 48 square feet. That equates to 3 tall tomatoes in 4 squares, 2 cherry toms in 2 perimeter squares, 64 pole beans in 8 squares, 8 cucumbers in 4 squares, 12-24 chard in 6 squares, 64 carrots in 4 squares successively planted, 8 peppers in 8 squares, 32 lettuce in 4 squares, 26 spinach in 4 squares, 2 coriander (cilantro seeds) and 2 basil in 2 squares each. or any other variation. There is still land for another 4' x 4' next summer. Just try to keep the isles 3' wide for comfort and spill-over plants.

If there is any construction nearby, see if they mind if you take the waste lumber (the 2" x 4" stud pieces) as free wood for the boxes. Take a look at Trolleydriver's 2 threads, 'A First Time SFG in Canada" and "Second year SFG in Canada." They are good reads.

Regardless of what you choose to do, we welcome you.

Welcome from Ohio, Marc! I have done regular row gardening, raised beds, and ANSFG. No comparison to highest productivity for the least human energy output after the first initial set-up. It truly is amazing what your little garden will produce. So glad you found us! Your plan sounds great, with the 4' L shaped garden! And planting what you like to eat, the only way to do it!

I think you will really enjoy this hobby and get hooked like the rest of us on here!

Hi Marc. Welcome from Atlanta, GA! Glad you've found us...

You might check your library for the book. Look for the 2nd Edition. That's the most updated & the easiest ever!

I also have done traditional row gardening before I switched to SFG. No comparison! SO much easier, faster, etc.

And, as you've been told, we're here to help you all we can! (And, as you've been warned, it's very addictive!)

:-)

StrongAsMeat wrote: In it, I was hoping to plant tomatoes, cherry tomatoes, green beans, cukes, carrots, lettuce, swiss chard, peppers, spinach, coriander and basil. I don't know if that's overkill, thoughts?  We have a couple of guinea pigs, so a lot would be their snacks. I won't plant anything we don't like, other than chard, haven't tried that...

Marc ... I don't think that is overkill. Last year I grew green pole bean, yellow bush beans, carrots (several kinds), lettuce (several kinds), swiss chard (it grew very well), spinach, onions, turnip, beats, oregano, basil, parsley, chives, cucumber, melon, marigold, dusty miller in my two smallish SFG beds. All of these things grew extremely well. I also had one green pepper and one eggplant but they did not do as well as the other things. It seems that last year was not a good year for bell peppers in many places.  My plan for this year is to have a table top SFG nearer to the house for growing herbs and lettuce.



Things like cucumbers, pole beans, melons should be grown vertically to save space. The All New SFG book shows how to make an inexpensive but very sturdy trellis for growing vertically.   Looking forward to seeing your garden ... please post photos.

AtlantaMarie wrote:
You might check your library for the book.  Look for the 2nd Edition.  That's the most updated & the easiest ever!

Agree.  That's what I did.  If your library only has the All New Square Foot Gardening, first ed, that's fine, too.  Mine didn't have any so I asked if they would order it and they did.

Now they have a whole collection of all the new SFG books.

I'm frugal to the max and find it a fun challenge to not spend on my gardening.  I used scrap lumber from construction sites (after asking for it of course) to build my boxes and I was already making my own compost.  The only things I had to get were the vermiculite and the peat moss, but only once.  Some members on the forum have used perlite in place of vermiculite to lower the initial cost, but that might float to the top eventually and be weird to me.  

Later I bought trellis fixings, but now realize it's pretty darn easy to make them with scrap lumber or branches and twine.  I even collect my own seeds now and our library has a seed exchange program going as does the local community garden.

It made me lol when I read that you kind of hate gardening but are going to do it anyway.  If you go this route it'll be as pain free as gardening can possibly be, unless you want complicate it a bit later on.


Have fun!  Keep us updated and ask whatever questions you have if you don't find them from using the search box at the top left.

CC

Thanks for the warm greetings guys. I got an ebook version of ANSFG, thinking it would just be a standard gardening book, but I was way wrong. It really makes the process seem simple. 

6"?! Wow! The only thing I'm not sure about is locating the components for MM in my area, but I haven't even looked yet. Do you all make your own compost? Is there a good brand I can buy at a garden center?  

We have one of those black compost bins way in the back yard and used to throw stuff in there, but I haven't looked inside in years. 

Good luck with your garden.  If you find nothing else, add compost, compost, compost.

So glad you found the book!   I would think that your compost thingy would be a great place to start!  Just start putting kitchen offings, coffee ground with filters, tea bags, veggie, fruit, and leaves, cardboard, etc into that baby.  

Go to the SEARCH box in the upper left hand corner of this page and look for compost....TONS of info, very good stuff.

YES.  I highly recommend you do your own compost,  Organic, within your control.  If you need start-up, many municipalities do a compost thing, mine does, and it is pretty good usually.  Know any farmers?  Cow, chicken, rabbit, goat poo is all good, but must be composted first--too hot if fresh, too much nitrogen.  It is really easy, honestly, I am a really lazy composter/gardener. truth

StrongAsMeat wrote:Thanks for the warm greetings guys. I got an ebook version of ANSFG, thinking it would just be a standard gardening book, but I was way wrong. It really makes the process seem simple. 

6"?! Wow! The only thing I'm not sure about is locating the components for MM in my area, but I haven't even looked yet. Do you all make your own compost? Is there a good brand I can buy at a garden center?  

We have one of those black compost bins way in the back yard and used to throw stuff in there, but I haven't looked inside in years. 

It is really simple. The hardest thing I encountered was finding the components for the blended compost (still a bit of a struggle, but I made my own over the winter.

And yes 6" is all!!! I have successfully grown tomato plants over 5' tall, zucchini plants that produced a ton and there are others here that have done much, much better than me...I mean MUCH BETTER.

Unfortunately I can't help with where to find the components in Canada, but I know there are plenty of folks on here from up there and I'm sure you will get tons of suggestions.
From what I have read, vermiculite seems to be a challenge to locate in some areas. There used to be a database on this site, but I never used it. I'm sure your fellow Canadians will step up and make suggestions.
I am guessing you will be able to find peat moss at any garden center or even the big box stores.
The compost I started with was all bought from either lowes or home depot (cow, mushroom, chicken) I am also certain that the great folks here will provide you lots of ideas and locations of where to get some compost.

Good luck...and remember "Row Gardening is Futile...You will be assimilated"

StrongAsMeat wrote:Hi gang, my name is Marc, 42, and I'm in Belleville Ontario, couple of hours east of Toronto. 

Last year we tore down an old shed next to my house and now I have an ugly 10x10 shallow hole in the ground. I wanted to just fill it in and put grass seed, but I thought it would be a good place for a garden. Very close to the house, good sun, easy access to the hose. I've never tried a garden before, in fact I kind of hate gardening (flowers), but they look nice when its done. 

I'm planning on a raised bed 10 or 12 inches, and originally thinking 4'x8' or keyhole shaped, but tonight I had a vision of an L shaped bed, 4' deep. In it, I was hoping to plant tomatoes, cherry tomatoes, green beans, cukes, carrots, lettuce, swiss chard, peppers, spinach, coriander and basil. I don't know if that's overkill, thoughts?  We have a couple of guinea pigs, so a lot would be their snacks. I won't plant anything we don't like, other than chard, haven't tried that...

I haven't read any of the SFG books, I just picked up a book by our local weatherman Frankie Flowers called 'Food to grow' and I am learning a lot. I'm trying not to spend a lot of money so I don't know about making MM, our local nursery sells a grow mix soil that I think I will try. 

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it, I will take pictures of my progress, and would love any advice you can offer.

Thanks!

Marc 
from Kelejan
I am the Host of the Canadian thread so come and visit us when you have finished   here.
I am following the weather forecast and you have some nasty weather coming your way.  I live in British Columbia Southern Interior and our weather is now allowing me out in the yard for a while each day so that I can build my compost pile.
Look forward to following your progress.  Ask lots of questions, always some one here who would love to answer.

Edited to add:  Take note of Trolley Driver.  He is a relative beginner and is going great guns and tries all sorts of things and he is over your way.

Vermiculite Data Base can be accessed on the Home Page/Index. The information is only as good as the information provided, so folks, if you find a source, let WardinWake know.

Kelejan wrote:I am the Host of the Canadian thread so come and visit us when you have finished   here.
I am following the weather forecast and you have some nasty weather coming your way.  I live in British Columbia Southern Interior and our weather is now allowing me out in the yard for a while each day so that I can build my compost pile.
Look forward to following your progress.  Ask lots of questions, always some one here who would love to answer.

Edited to add:  Take note of Trolley Driver.  He is a relative beginner and is going great guns and tries all sorts of things and he is over your way.

I will certainly post in there, i've been lurking so far. Yes, we have a lovely layer of ice covering everything this morning. So much for my box building plans today. Hopefully it melts soon. This is the foundation I was talking about, maybe 12 feet from my house. This was taken 5 minutes ago. North is on the left side of the picture.

StrongAsMeat wrote:This is the foundation I was talking about, maybe 12 feet from my house. This was taken 5 minutes ago. North is on the left side of the picture.

Wow you sure have a lot of pollen on the ground

I am a novice so I don't know if this matters, but if you put the SFG beds in that square and don't fill it in so it is level with the surrounding ground, won't the bed get swamped with water when it rains? I am thinking you may have to fill that in or elevate the beds. again I don't know so maybe you were already planning to address that.

Ralitaco, I've been thinking about your comment. I searched the forums but didn't find an answer. Would 10" side walls and 2-3" of gravel on the bottom make for good drainage? Maybe drain holes on the bottom of the walls?

Native fill? It is better to build up an above-grade platform than to have any below grade area for the bed and mix sit on.

StrongAsMeat wrote:Ralitaco, I've been thinking about your comment. I searched the forums but didn't find an answer. Would 10" side walls and 2-3" of gravel on the bottom make for good drainage? Maybe drain holes on the bottom of the walls?

Strong, I am not sure. Sanderson suggested using native fill.
To me, it looks like the ground slopes down on the left and right sides. You may just want to grade that area and try to take advantage of the natural slope.

Of course you could build Table Top / Elevated beds. I switched to those and absolutely love it. Of course the downside to them is the plywood will eventually need to be replaced but some folks just use hardware cloth and weed cloth for the bottoms.

StrongAsMeat wrote:Last year we tore down an old shed next to my house and now I have an ugly 10x10 shallow hole in the ground. I wanted to just fill it in and put grass seed, but I thought it would be a good place for a garden. Very close to the house, good sun, easy access to the hose. I've never tried a garden before, in fact I kind of hate gardening (flowers), but they look nice when its done.

I went back and re-read your original post to see what was there before. I think you could go with your original plan to fill it. That would be the simplest and I like to keep things simple, well some things...Anyway, instead of planting the entire area with grass, build some boxes and put a 3-4' path between them (you need that much room to walk between the boxes when they are if full production mode). Then you can put down mulch or even plant grass where the boxes are not.
If you do that, then the rain water will drain as normal and the water you put in the SFG will be held by the vermiculite and peat moss. What the SFG doesn't need will pass through the bottom of the box and drain into the soil below. Because of the moisture retention capability of the MM, you don't need to worry about putting gravel down for drainage, etc.

Thanks Ratilaco! To be honest before the SFG idea I was going to fill it, then I thought of the SFG, and hoped I could get away with building it in the 'hole', but I might as well do it right the first time. I'll suck it up and get fill, build my SFG(s) and mulch around and in between them.  I might even fence off the 10'x10' area to keep the critters out.

After you havelled the ground, may I suggest building  three rectangular beds - two @ 7 x 3 and one @ 10 x3 and arrange them in a keyhole style? 

That would leave you with a working area of 7 x 4 that you could layer with pea gravel or something similar.?

Then you could surround it with cattle fencing and grow vines or grapes and make a nice little sitting area where you could watch your garden grow.

You are quite welcome Strong.

Kelejan wrote:After you havelled the ground, may I suggest building  three rectangular beds - two @ 7 x 3 and one @ 10 x3 and arrange them in a keyhole style? 

That would leave you with a working area of 7 x 4 that you could layer with pea gravel or something similar.?

Then you could surround it with cattle fencing and grow vines or grapes and make a nice little sitting area where you could watch your garden grow.

That sounds like a nice layout. Just make sure you can reach all the way in at the corners, especially if you fence it in. Those outside corner of the 2 back squares will be about 4' away.

Just saying "Hi" - also in Ontario in the east end of Toronto....looking forward to spring finally arriving (any day now) so I can also get started!

Hi Margay