Determinate tomato spacing

Another spacing question from a newbie. 

Are determinate tomatoes really 4 plants per 1 square?

I have All New Revised edition 2006 & it appears to have a typo with summer squash spacing that's a question for another topic. Now, I'm a bit concerned about the same chart's spacing for determinate tomatoes.  Pg. 192 says determinate tomatoes are spaced at (4) per 1 square.

I've had some concern about that before wondering if that's just way too cramped but now that other posters have established there is definitely a typo with the summer squash in the same chart, I wanted to get other people's opinion or maybe info about the second edition's spacing about determinate (non-vine tomatoes).

We are picking up our seedlings on Saturday & have 6 determinate plants ordered to fill 2 spaces.

Any info would be much appreciated! Thanks!

I'm a SFG newbie. I ordered the book from Rodale press and asked for the newest version of the book, and the agent assured me that I had the latest version. After joining this forum, I realized that I don't have the newest version. I have what I believe is the second edition (2005).
This book has bush tomatoes at 4 per square as well, so I hope that helps a little. I only planted one per square just because I had a determinate tomato that got kinda big last year, and a couple of bush varieties that stayed nice and compact.
Am I confusing the two? I just got confuzzled   
I think I need to eat lunch..

Are all determinate varieties considered bush tomatoes?

Determinate = bush; Indeterminate = vine.

Is everyone just ignoring the book about the 4 determinate tomatoes per square?

larknoelle wrote:Determinate = bush; Indeterminate = vine.

Is everyone just ignoring the book about the 4 determinate tomatoes per square?

Hello,  If that is what it says it is an error. Did you happen to buy your book in a discount store?

I had determinate planted at one per square foot and indeterminate at 1 for every 2 squares. The plants were offset, like a checkerboard.

In both of these planting situations, plant management is required through pruning by removing all lower leaf branches below the first fruits. Upper plants will also need some pruning of suckers throughout the season.

Sounds like typos to me.    Should read Bush (or determinants) toms 1 plant / 9 sq ft. Vine 1 plant/sq ft. Trellising or stakes required for vining or indeterminants. You CAN train/prune determinants (bush) to make them into skinny tall plants. You may be buying a few large pots or 5 gallon food-grade buckets and stakes for the toms and summer squashes!!   

+1 but I wouldn't prune determinates you need the growth to produce toms as they stop growing and stop producing unlike the indet.

I purchased my book from Rodale press. What we saw was the crop-by-crop planting guide at the back of the edition I ended up with, 2005.
For spacing, it states; bush types 4 plants per 4' x 4' block; vine type- 1 plant per square (12").
*reading fail* 

Think i'm going to order the the newest edition....and make sure that's actually what i'm getting.

No matter which you plant, they will need staking/trellising.  Even the determinates get pretty tall and definately sprawl all over.  I did the opposite from Camprn, 1 indeterminate per square and 1 indeterminate per 2 squares until I started running out of bed space to try new veggies and decided to go to 5 gal buckets next to a trellis for all my tomatoes.

Kay

I've read about the determinant vs indeterminate types of tomatoes, but I've never seen a good source for finding out if a specific variety is determinant or not.  I always buy plants instead of growing from seed, and that information is usually missing.  Doesn't variety also affect plant spacing?

While I'm about it, what about cherry tomato plant spacing per square?  Any guidelines?  If it's in my books, I've missed it.

Finally, tell me about wilt.  When I grew tomatoes many decades ago in NC, I was always careful to buy wilt resistant varieties because I never had any luck otherwise.  Now, I see almost nothing about wilt and wilt resistant varieties.  Has wilt gone away?  I know that it is a soil borne pathogen.  Can it also exist in MM?  If so, is it still important to ensure that plants are wilt resistant varieties?

I have the copyrighted version 2005. It is the old book. Although there is good info in it, you definitely want to get the new version, copyright 2006 or 2013.

Wilt of many types is specified by the name of the pathogen these days, e.g., fusarium, verticillium(sp?), which makes it easier to talk about and tackle. Many things cause wilt, and some aren't even diseases at all. So you might find plants listed as resistant to drought, or some disease, both of which can cause wilting in their own way and time and degree.

One way to find out about particular types of tomatoes is to look at seed catalogues. The big ones, like Johnny's, Seedsavers, Territorial, Bakers Creek, Parkers, Botanical Interests, and others will often have on their website, in their catalogs, or both, a lot of information on each seed they sell. Or anyway enough particulars to orient you, let you understand what you might be ordering, and get you started. What one catalog has only a little on, another might have a lot of info on. And what one doesn't have, another might. Additionally, there are specialty tomato sites like tomatoville.com and others, both commercial and non-commercial, that have plenty of info to share.

Also, a google on things like "types of tomatoes" or "tomato cultivars" can turn up lots of info.

Finally, I think there is a way to tell determinate from indeterminate by a quick look at the stem and leaf structure ... can't for the life of me remember what it is, though. Another google possibility.

My Viva Italia's I plant every year for freezing and sauces are determinate. I plant four in a 4x4 box and they use all the space. This year (if the freeze doesn't win) I have one planted in a 2x4 with two Umberto's (sp).  That will be a total of 5 with the two indeterm. paste tomato's.

http://myfolia.com/

This is a great website with a nice plant wiki database.

boffer wrote:I have the copyrighted version 2005.  It is the old book.  Although there is good info in it, you definitely want to get the new version, copyright 2006 or 2013.

Oh thanks! I didn't know there was a 2013 version.

ANSF Second Edition  this is the new one with the current info.

Thanks!

walshevak wrote:No matter which you plant, they will need staking/trellising.  Even the determinates get pretty tall and definately sprawl all over.  I did the opposite from Camprn, 1 indeterminate per square and 1 indeterminate per 2 squares until I started running out of bed space to try new veggies and decided to go to 5 gal buckets next to a trellis for all my tomatoes.

Kay

I did try to grow indeterminate tomatoes one per square foot. After two years I planted the indeterminate toms every other square with improved results. More space for roots to take up nutrients and increased air circulation in the bed allowed for an improved environment that was less hospitable to diseases.

I +1 Sanderson's comment earlier in this post about what the current copy of the book says about the spacing of toms but didn't say how I do mine. First of all, no way am I going to give one plant 9 squares I would plant it in a bucket outside of my SFG. That being said I planted my indeterminates 2 per 3 squares (which is basically 1 per every other square but I didn't center them in the square they were in) spaced about 9 or 10 inches from the outside of the square and leaving about 16-18" between the two toms. I liked having the extra space, especially since I don't prune as heavily as some do. My determinates were spaced at 1 per square. I caged one and did Florida weave on the others. I like the Florida weave better, the caged one was too bushy and confined not enough air flow. Last year was not a great year for my toms though, got them in too late and had some stress issues with my det so had some stunted growth. So I'm trying the same spacing on them this year and doing Florida weave on my det to see if I still like it with hopefully better growth. If so then I will continue spacing my det at 1 per square with the Florida weave; if not then next year my det will be in buckets. I really like the spacing on the ind though so will keep planting them at 2 per 3 squares.

TxGramma, I planted 3 toms over 4 linear feet. In a 2 x 3 bed, I planted 3 staggered, that is, 2 corner squares on one 3' side and one in the center square of the other 3' side. Containers for all the peppers and herbs. My square footage in sunny areas is too precious to give anything more than 2 squares, much less 9 squares. Summer and winter squares 1/square, either tall trellises or corners.

TxGramma wrote: I liked having the extra space, especially since I don't prune as heavily as some do. My determinates were spaced at 1 per square. I caged one and did Florida weave on the others. I like the Florida weave better, the caged one was too bushy and confined not enough air flow. Last year was not a great year for my toms though, got them in too late and had some stress issues with my det so had some stunted growth. So I'm trying the same spacing on them this year and doing Florida weave on my det to see if I still like it with hopefully better growth. If so then I will continue spacing my det at 1 per square with the Florida weave; if not then next year my det will be in buckets. I really like the spacing on the ind though so will keep planting them at 2 per 3 squares.

I too have gone to mostly Florida weave for tomato support. In addition to supporting the plant it keeps it more contained in a limited vertical space.

sanderson wrote:TxGramma,  I planted 3 toms over 4 linear feet.  In a 2 x 3 bed, I planted 3 staggered, that is, 2 corner squares on one 3' side and one in the center square of the other 3' side.  Containers for all the peppers and herbs.  My square footage in sunny areas is too precious to give anything more than 2 squares, much less 9 squares.  Summer and winter squares 1/square, either tall trellises or corners.

That's for sure. I have more space in my yard than you do but still not enough to give any plant that much room. I do the same with my summer squash, 1 per square, and train them on stakes . I really liked how that worked out as well. And all of my herbs are in pots except some of my basil that I am planting in the edge of my tomato squares.

camprn wrote:I too have gone to mostly Florida weave for tomato support. In addition to supporting the plant it keeps it more contained in a limited vertical space.

I agree, I really liked it last year and I'm definitely using it again this year. It's easy to do and like you said gave good support and contained the plants well.

Thanks, everyone. We would have been totally boned if we had planted indeterminate 4 plants to a square. We will try it 1 vine per square & 1 determinate per square. But we are picking up our plants tomorrow & it's last chance to not get plants.... So...

We were now planning on getting a celebrity & mountain fresh plus for our determinates. Our vines are new girl & san marzano. Any thoughts on those breeds being 1 square per plant?

We will stake the determinates & the vines will grow on the trellis.

Thanks, again, everyone!!

(Also, note the book was the library copy. We wanted to test the book our before buying so that answer's that - old version!)

I found SanMarzano does very well trellised up.  It has a spare growth pattern and did not branch a lot so not a lot of pruning needed.