Treated lumber ???

Ok I read somewhere that pressure treated lumber might not be a good idea for SFG frame.  I have been given oodles of treated 4x4 and 4x6.  Is there a reason I should not use them ??  I was thinking of using 2 telephone poles cut and stacked then bolted together.  Any advice ??

gategitter, some people has issues with pressure treated lumber because of the chemical used many years ago.  Personally, I have no issue with using them now.  If anything, the poles might have more preservatives than pressure treated lumber you can buy at any lumber or box store.  They are probably heavily treated but I have no idea with what.  Hopefully, someone else will have better information and will chime in.

Free is a hard one to walk away from.  From what I have learned, if you decide to use the free material  you could line with plastic, especially the phone poles.  [size=12.727272033691406]But then it has been said plastic has its own issues.  Regular lumber has had newer treatment processes that they say is safer.  Personally, I would use the regular lumber - lined - and save the poles for flower beds.  And I would probably line with weedblock cloth.[/size]


[size=12.727272033691406]Kay[/size]

Please don't use telephone poles or railroad ties. They are not appropriate for residential or garden uses. I wouldn't use treated 4 x 4s either. If you do, please line with plastic. But, even plastic will have a chemical plasticizer for pliability.

http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/factsheets/chemicals/creosote_prelim_risk_assess.htm#seven

So while I waited on responses. And thank you sooo much for your answers !!!  I did some research too...I WONT be using the poles.  I know that rain and snow on wood will eventually wear it down.. so it should be assumed that after a while any bad stuff would have leached out anyway.. so.... In the interest of history, I know what happens when someone assumes lol      But I did find this article that I thought was really interesting.  It actually says NO but then it explains that the OLD treated wood is bad (sort of) but the new stuff. 5 years to now is as safe as it can be because it has NO arsenic in it anyway. Now the wood I have been given was used by an energy company for building braces and such for a transmission line and has been laying out in the elements for at least a year so I figure its probably ok.. IDk but if I run from everything that is "gunna give me cancer" then I need to get this laptop off my lap and throw the micro wave out the window and us a broom handle to turn off my tv !! lol   But.. here is the article. http://www.gardeningblog.net/2009/04/12/using-pressure-treated-lumber-in-raised-garden-beds/   Lining will take place for sure because I dont want weeds and that dreaded bermuda grass haha    Why is it that the grass wont grow in the yard where I want it but it flourishes where I dont.. lol

gategitter wrote:...IDk but if I run from everything that is "gunna give me cancer"...

There's so much out there that 'could' be unhealthy, I think people pick  topics to worry about  that they are predisposed to based on their life experience to date.  There's just not enough time to worry about it all.  I use pressure treated wood too.

If you use regular lumber you can coat it with linseed oil and that will somewhat protect it from rotting. If you lightly char the wood first, then coat it with linseed oil, it lasts even longer in/on the ground. This is a really old school method, like pre-1900, and it still works. 

I agree with the others that treated wood in a veggie garden isn't the way to go.

I passed on using treated wood for my vegetables, (per the book), but I did build a 4x4 bed to plant my pollinator attractors in since we won't be eating anything from that particular bed.

Cedar is a great, albeit expensive, alternative.

Something I have discovered since starting SFG last year is that any lumber will attract wood boring insects -- termites -- whether it is treated, or not.  After exposing a "treated" piece of lumber to the elements over the course of a few years, the chemicals will leach out, into the ground, and will essentially be useless after they do so.

What I've determined to do is use regular dimensional lumber as a start, and after a couple of years, when they start to break down, to simply begin 'mounding' my SFG without the use of a side support.  I modeled this after a gardener in Hartford, KS who does this now, and it seems to work really well for him.

Good luck!
Brian

I'm going to be using PTL for the first time this year and I'm usually a total freak about this kind of stuff.  But I feel that since the arsenic was removed from the process back in 2003 I'm OK with it...kind of.  I picked up 2 new pieces for 80 cents each (scrap) and left them outside all summer & fall.  I'll be using 2 pcs of untreated lumber with them.

CC

I built a 4' X 7' raised bed garden about 25 years ago. The wood was 4" X 4" landscape timbers, pressure treated with everything bad.

BOZ, got that beat, 30+ years ago, my dad and then husband built a retaining wall/ wide planter out of railroad ties. We planted Monterey pines and Prunus carolinas and they all died within less than 10 years! I'll pretend that my little kids did NOT pick the short-lived strawberries from that bed!

Slim, I found out that termites lived and thrived in my PTL raised boxes next to the foundation. Then they moved into the exterior wall of the living room! $$ The boxes just fell apart from the termites.

OK, so now I'm getting jiggy about the wood I'm going to use in my newest box.  Does anyone know what any of this means? 
 

kiln-dried heat-treated southern yellow pine

boffer wrote:kiln-dried heat-treated southern yellow pine

Wow...that's what all that meant?  Heat treated?  That doesn't sound poisonous, right?  And for 80 cents each, I should go back to see if there are any more.

Thanks, Boffer!     You da man!

Oh, um...they aren't poisonous, right?

Heat treating is to get rid of existing bugs, molds, or diseases before the wood is shipped around the world.

Pressure treating is to prevent future problems from the same things.

No chemicals are used for heat treating.

I was at Home Depot today looking at treated wood and found this warning from "Pro Wood" which stated:  "Do not use preserved wood under any circumstances where the preservatives may become a component of food, animal feed, or beehives".
   I know there's been a lot of research on this forum about the subject so this was enough to scare me off.  I bought pine.

Good reminder, Mr. Booker. KD virgin wood or KDHT virgin wood is always good. KDHT just means it was heated up to kill critters and microorganisms. Pressure treated = don't use. This includes railroad ties.

sanderson wrote:Good reminder, Mr. Booker.  KD virgin wood or KDHT virgin wood is always good.  KDHT just means it was heated up to kill critters and microorganisms.  Pressure treated = don't use.  This includes railroad ties.

Sanderson. You are SOooo smart.... fora gurl... lol. Can I hang out with you.. Can I,  Huh,
Pleeeeez.

 I had no idea there even WAS a  KD or KDHT, let alone what it meant. I just went out and looked at the five 2x6's I just bought. Turns out their, KDHT. I did good and didn't even know it.

I went Home Depot to buy Cedar but they were all crooked and picked over. If I ever have to rebuild my beds, it will be with cinder blocks. Thanks for the good info Sanderson. I will jot it down.

Kiln Dried Heat Treated.....good.

Pressure Treated, no.  Bad.  Real bad.  For a long long time....

Sounds so innocent, too.  But creosote soaked wood is TOXIC.

Fora gurl. Hmmmm Everything I know I learned in kindergarten . . . and everything I know about gardening I learned from this Forum. Still can't grow tomatoes, though.

I think there is a lot to be said about using cinder blocks. Just fill the holes with a filler. Some have used Mel's Mix and grown herbs and marigolds, etc.

sanderson wrote:Fora gurl.  Hmmmm     Everything I know I learned in kindergarten . . .  and everything I know about gardening I learned from this Forum.  Still can't grow tomatoes, though.  

I think there is a lot to be said about using cinder blocks.  Just fill the holes with a filler.  Some have used Mel's Mix and grown herbs and marigolds, etc.

      Yup..sure wish I had used cinder blocks.  I had the worse tomatoes this year than I've ever had. Can't figure it out.
Some planted in half barrels in new MM, some in a small in ground garden and they all turned brown from the soil up.
Strange thing is though, their still putting on a few edible tomatoes.

Mr. B, photos would help!  

We have had zero rain for over a month and a half where I am.   Do you have rain or water?

Scorpio Rising wrote:Mr. B, photos would help!  

We have had zero rain for over a month and a half where I am.   Do you have rain or water?

I will post pics later this morning. We had a half inch of good slow rain yesterday and have been blessed with a fair amount of rain over the past month. I'm beginning to wonder if the fall rains are starting already in my area.

A few weeks ago I had to drain my rain barrels because the water was getting stagnant but we had rain a few days later and refilled them.

MrBooker wrote:

Scorpio Rising wrote:Mr. B, photos would help!  

We have had zero rain for over a month and a half where I am.   Do you have rain or water?

I will post pics later this morning. We had a half inch of good slow rain yesterday and have been blessed with a fair amount of rain over the past month. I'm beginning to wonder if the fall rains are starting already in my area.

A few weeks ago I had to drain my rain barrels because the water was getting stagnant but we had rain a few days later and refilled them.

PICS: