The Winter Journey and greenhouse plastic

audrey.jeanne.roberts wrote:.  These are business clips, I've always called them "alligator clips" but don't know if that's the name you would look them up under.  Easy to find and very cheap.  Lots of different sizes available.

Not sure what these kinds of clips are called or where we got them - I'm fairly certain also at an office supply store.  

  Alligator clips brings back memories of the hippie days.  Audrey, alligator clips often describes electrician clips that were used to hold the very last bit of a marijuana joint!  The common name for your black office clips is binder clips.

sanderson wrote:  Alligator clips brings back memories of the hippie days.  Audrey, alligator clips often describes electrician clips that were used to hold the very last bit of a marijuana joint!  The common name for your black office clips is binder clips.

My very, very, very limited experience of such matters wasn't enough to bring that to mind, LOL! But I can recall and can recall what they look like that gave them the nick name.

By the way, did you hear that the county board of supervisors made pot growing completely illegal in Fresno county yesterday? I am so relieved - you cannot believe the violence and the crime syndicates that moved into our little peaceful valley. $1,000 per plant fines that multiply when they don't comply. When the county below us instigated those penalties is when the syndicates moved into our neighborhood.

For those who might approve of pot legalization, you really need to understand the evil it brings with it into peaceful family neighborhoods and the crime is horrific. We have a young couple in our church that had to move out of their property hastily when they were shot at carrying their 2 year old daughter with them. They were in between two growers who were warring with each other.

AWFUL

Opps, we got off topic. I sent you a PM.

audrey.jeanne.roberts wrote:OK, here's the way I clip the sides.  I place the two edges one on top of the other then roll them 2 or 3 times and add the clips.  That keeps the air gaps/leaks to a minimum.  These are business clips, I've always called them "alligator clips" but don't know if that's the name you would look them up under.  Easy to find and very cheap.  Lots of different sizes available.



Not sure what these kinds of clips are called or where we got them - I'm fairly certain also at an office supply store.  

these picture were very helpful. thank you.

Moving on to next stage with low tunnel hoophouses. Still working out some kinks. Here's what I have now: venting stage. Please share any ideas that you may have.
thank you

1. glued 1' scheduled 40 pipe with 1/2" tee that's also glued to a snap clamp so it could clip to the 1/2" emt bar.



2. attached velcro to pipe and venting box





3. assembled together the vent and pvc pipe with velcro







4. venting box need support from under and on both sides



















5. Attaching the venting box with 2 way tape




6. using tie tie down to open and close hoophouse. Will change bottom attachment to eyebolt. I believe that's what it's called. If there is better ideas please share.












7. hoophouse open with newly attached vent box. box appears to be working. presently remote thermometer is displaying temps at decent ranges. I also have been leaving the hoophouse open on mildly windy days to get real unfiltered sunlight and feel the wind. Presently it has been easy to just open and close it now. The venting box were a great addition. there still some kinks that need to be worked out. I will update later.

You've come up with some very creative solutions.   

After looking at your last two pictures, I'm guessing you don't get much wind at your place?

Has, I do believe that you love to tinker and problem solve!!    

sanderson wrote:Has, I do believe that you love to tinker and problem solve!!     

Actually Sanderson, I'm a lazy gardener who just want to find a easy way to do the maintenance part of gardening. I like to spend more time enjoying the plants colors, shapes of the plants and seeds , harmony with natures-insects,sun, wind, rain, growth , harvesting and eating them. The man made stuff like watering,fertilizing, shading, weeding ( which is very little),seeking out destructive insects I can do without, but it must be done. I just want to spend very little time doing it. So I'm always exploring, gleaning off others for a better way. I'm extremely grateful that the others and you are willing to share.

It was cold last night and tonight also, about 19-22 degress. The cool weather plants are holding up in the low tunnel hoop house. Inside I have a  floating row cover  with a thin aluminum space blanket for the night only. removed in daytime. Last night temp held about 31-32 via the remote thermometer reading. The project still needs some work for more heat control at night, without running electricity. the  tunnels are opening and closing well and the passive heat vent are opening and closing appropriately. All my ideas are not out yet on this project, will keep you updated.

Am I just kidding myself and wasting time?  These are some of the peppers in my little green house.  I was hoping that new stems would grow out of the nodes on the main stems.  Or should I toss and start seedlings?

Don't give up on them Sanderson! Peppers love HOT weather, so maybe when you get out of the cool of January they will start to pick up and fill out. Peppers are like tomatoes and eggplant, they snub their noses at 40's, condescendingly tolerate 50's, and thrive when nights are 60's and above.

GG

boffer wrote:You've come up with some very creative solutions.    

After looking at your last two pictures, I'm guessing you don't get much wind at your place?

the wind is off and on, but nothing like Kansas. that was a good day. 

Hey Boffer , I found your teeth 


they were trying to get close enough to eat southern gardener awesome Cauliflower    




Caught tooth handed

got overconfidence saturday. Just prior to going to work on night shift 7p-7a, found two of the low tunnel hoop houses had collapsed. I didn't latch down the front entry thinking the weight of the EMT tubing would prevent it from being lifted up by the wind. 


Sadly I made a mistake and found myself hurriedly trying to put them back together with my wife help. I don't have pictures because I was up against the clock to go to work. The top support tee/brackets clips that separated the hoops had came apart.







solution- 
1. Tie it down !!! the other two were tied down. No problem with them. They seem to holding up against the wind.


2. the tee bracket/clips are slightly to big. Make new clips with a 1/2 pvc tee for 1/2 emt.


3. add side brackets.

last night temps drop down to 3 degrees due to wind chill in decatur , tx at my job. now it 26 in the hoop houses without heat. Will see how they do in a few days.
Been too busy to add external space blanket like audrey.jeanne.roberts. 
I can't sew, so this may be a next year project,because I want to shape the cover close to the design of the hoop house. I have some ideas  how to keep it weighed down without spending a bunch of energy or time.

If you need to make a larger cover than the single 5 x 7 standard size can accomplish but can't sew, then I think you could simply fold over the seams a couple times and staple them.  I'm sure that would be adequate.

Hope you survive the freeze!

I am ready to harvest some Japanese eggplant. They're so stinking cute! Instead of being 10-12 inches long they're only about 4-5 inches but they look ripe so I'm going to pick them later this week. I have some beefsteak tomatoes that are just about to come ripe, some baby romas and cherry tomatoes. Also, my red hot chili peppers are starting to turn red.

I'm loving the greenhouse system, it's working perfectly. 5 minutes to open everything up in the morning and 7 minutes to close it down at night.

this site/video has a better idea for making a hoop house. One of my 3 way tees broke from the wind. They use snap cross bars for the hoop bars support, have metal corner support and required less hoop bars for my sfg bed. I believe I will try these ideas for my summer sfg beds with shade cloth, because our winter will be over in about 2 months. The EMT metal is much cheaper than pvc and won't be effected by the sun.

Austin

https://youtu.be/D2GzR-IOvLw

this company has snap clamp boxes for wholesale only, but is price well. I have order 3 set of boxes from them.

http://www.snapclamp.com/prices.htm

I found this wonder video for those who want to simply change your low hoop house to a tall hoop house.

How to Build a High Tunnel out of your low tunnel

Very clever. Thanks for sharing.

Think how this would look over 2 long, skinny sfg boxes with a 2' walkway, where he would be saving on seeds, growing in MM!

Okay, so now that we're technically in spring (though some parts of the country might contest that), how did your greenhouse, hoop house or other means of keeping your gardens going during the winter turn out?

1. at worked and why?
2. What was a bust and why?
3. What would you do differently next year?

1. My survival blanket "greenhouse within a greenhouse" worked magnificently. I've had fresh tomatoes all winter long and they've been sooo good! My seedling starts have been great using the greenhouse. I've never done very well with windows and in the house seed starting.

2. Some of my full grown plants were left growing just because the greenhouse was erected over an existing planter box. The eggplants stayed alive but that doesn't mean they produced anything worth while. I will be more strategic in my planting next year.

3. I was rereading some greenhouse threads and noticed several times that having a fan going in there circulating air was important. I didn't do that and I have fought some black moldy issues on tomatoes, bell peppers and japanese eggplant that are in the green house. I wonder if that would have been helped by better circulation? I will take the time to learn more this coming year about effectively using a greenhouse.

I used row cover on some pots that had spinach, kale, lettuce, peas, corn salad/mache, and brussels sprouts in them, as well as elephant garlic. Elephant garlic did fantastic and has been up there with strong thick leaves for quite some time now. Really looking forward to trying these! Lots and lots of peas planted, all died from frost and none produced anything. Brussels sprouts did fine, but growth was minimal. One that was bug-eaten down to within an inch of the ground survived our coldest winter in 30 years. The kale, all but two, either died when an inch high or failed to germinate when planted last fall. The two left are runts that have produced nothing worth eating yet. All lettuce but one died, and it's quite small and not worth bothering with. Spinach hung on like a trooper but didn't grow at all, until finally our 15 degree days wiped them out. Corn salad took a month to germinate, and hasn't grown more than a couple inches tall. Leaves are very small but the plants finally started taking off a month or so ago. Profuse but not a lot of edible volume there. A few I kept indoors for a lark this winter are incredibly spindly but have many more, and larger, leaves.

I also had a small hoop house and big hoop house. The big one had only onions, and did fine over the winter. Grew well enough from sets to be half a foot tall by now on many of them. Took the cover off and should put it back on, because I think the onions are starting to drown in our recent rain. Small hoop house had daikon radishes, several plantings of lettuce, lots of french breakfast radishes planted, and three brussels sprouts plants. The sprouts did great, and are over a foot tall now, closer to two feet I guess. The daikon radishes never formed a root and have now bolted; their flowers are all the way to the top of the short, low hoop house, as are those of the BS's. French breakfast radishes never germinated, lettuces never germinated, and I got a surprise visitor -- miner's lettuce! A weed around here, and it's absolutely delicious. I could eat that stuff all day. But, I only have two plants.

Something, probably a rabbit, has been trampling around the raised beds and shredded one side of my small hoop house. I'm not sure what he took! As far as I can tell, everything looks the same.

garlic, onion, swiss chard and kale did well. some turnips. Lettuce did not do well. My cabbage did well. But I didn't use the survival blanket like  audrey.jeanne.roberts did, it just wasn't cost effective at that time, because of the size of my hoopd. Our temperature swing was drastic many days from 75 in day to 21-2 degree with wind chill at night time. this force me to run out to use the frost blanket. too much work. The is when I dream of audrey.jeanne.roberts green house. The plants grew slower. I thought my worm had died since minimal movement noted in the wide worm tube, but that changed last week when the weather warmed up, the tube drop 3 inches.
the automatic foundation vents worked very well. I recommend their use. It was nice to stay in bed and not worry about overheating. I use 2 way tape to attached the outer perimeter of the vent to the cut out hole in the green plastic. Next year I will use velcro. It works well in my experiments.


I plan to try a new type of low tunnel green house idea  next year that is burning in my heart.  I plan to use four 1" PVC pipe that are 1 1/2 ft long. I will attached to all corner of SFG bed with 6 inches in the bed and 12 inches above the bed. Then attached green house plastic to the outer perimeter of the 1" pipes. basically making a 1ft wall. the green house plastic is attached by snap clamps. this should prevent the side walls from collapsing and will be taut. I will be able to reach into and over the 1 ft wall to get my food.


 The top will be square shape consisting of 1/2" pvc pipe. there will be a center pipe with a handle. each corner will have a 3 way 90 degrees adapter with the middle opening pointing downwards toward the 1 ft pipes sticking above the bed. I will put a 6 inch long, 1/2 inch pvc pipe into the downward opening of the 3 way adapter. this will allow me to simply place the legs on the top into the 1" opening of the 1 inch pvc pipes that are attached  to the wall of the SFG bed. This way the wind can't blow the top off, because the legs are too deep into the 1" pvc pipe. If it does I will add sand for weight into the legs. 
when it get too cold I will use the survival blankets that audrey.jeanne.roberts used, since it only have to cover a 1 foot wall and that will not be expensive.  should be able to cut the blanket to be able to cover at least 2 sfg bed, maybe three.
I will use the automatic foundation vents for heat relief.
I will be able to remove the top with the handle and place it in a pvc built rack when I get the food.
If this work, it will be done very inexpensively and take most of the anxiety away from overheating or freezing.
we'll see. 

Mark, sounds like a tough winter in your garden.  I think in a lot of ways it's harder for those of us that don't deal with those kinds of winter temps, as we just don't expect it nor know what to do about it.  Our North eastern buddies just put their gardens to bed and don't have any expectations for the winter.  

Has that sounds really workable and interesting, you'll have to post your really great pictures as you're making it.  I think I have it envisioned well.  

The survival blankets were awesome.  My greenhouse is 8 feet tall which is lovely to walk around in but not so great for keeping the air warm.  The smaller spaces were easy to heat and survived down to 22 degrees which is the bottom end we pretty much ever get.  I timed how long it took me to set up at night and remove in the morning.  7 minutes to put on and 5 to take off.  That was worth it for me and the blankets are as good today as the day they were put on.  They're very durable. I expect to get many years of use out of them so the cost will be defrayed over time.

audrey.jeanne.roberts wrote:Mark, sounds like a tough winter in your garden.  I think in a lot of ways it's harder for those of us that don't deal with those kinds of winter temps, as we just don't expect it nor know what to do about it.  Our North eastern buddies just put their gardens to bed and don't have any expectations for the winter.  

audrey, it was my first ever winter gardening attempt and our coldest winter in 30 years, so I'm just glad anything grew at all, and lived as long as it did. That there were survivors at all through that kind of weather(including me!), like my elephant garlic and brussels sprouts and onions, makes me still excited about trying winter gardening next year.

Time to revive this topic as we prepare for the coming winter! What are you working on? What are your plans?

I'm getting ready to cut back my cherry tomato plant. Does anyone know if they will regrow from lower branches if pruned or should I just pull it up and plant a new tomato while there is still time for it to grow here?

I have a "Snow Fairy" tomato variety that I'm going to grow this winter. It's good down to 28 degrees if no frost touches the plant.

Yesterday *might* be out last 100 degree day for the year (Please dear God!!!) We're supposed to begin dropping to the low 90s this week and the 80s the next. Hopefully we will get a long slow fall.

I've still got last year's row cover. If it looks necessary, I'll put it over lettuce, mustard, kale, broccoli raab, and chard. I may just drape it over the plants rather than using hoops, though last year I had some leaves get mushy where they were directly touching the cloth, so I'm not sure about doing that anywhere I don't have to.

I may also plant some more buckwheat on any open unused surface just so I can have the winter kill them off, leaving me with a little extra organic matter to work into the soil.