Cover Crops??

Has anyone used any kind of winter cover crop to help put more nitrogen and organic material back into the soil? If so, what has been your experience?

I have never done this before but decided to try it this year. Today I planted hairy vetch in the potato patch. Apparently, it is supposed to be very good for putting nitrogen back in the soil. I am not sure how long it takes for the stuff to germinate so this is very much an experiment. Perhaps it is wayyyy to cold now for this to work. I did have to wait until I got the potatoes harvested.

GK

I haven't done this in the past, but I just put in a new 50/50 - asparagus/strawberry bed where I've planted fava beans as a green manure crop that will be tilled in to boost the bed before planting the asparagus and strawberries in Jan. I've found that new mix grows stuff much better after it's had a season or more growing something. I suspect it has to do with commensal organisms as well as maturing compost.

After I turn in the fava bean plants and all, if I have enough time, I will be planting another cover crop for a green manure, then turning that in as well. I'm planning on putting in some lettuce and spinach +/- some other quick, salad type stuff beside the fava beans, too. Even if I don't get good production from it, the seed packs hold so much, that I can't possibly use them all before they get excess "age" on them and have diminished germination rates. I figure I might as well some of them up as more green manure even if they don't produce much for my plate. Growing ANYTHING in the new mix will spread roots and organisms around to "activate" the soil before my asparagus goes in where it will stay for potentially decades. I figure I need to do everything I can to make this NOT new soil mix anymore.

Anybody have more thoughts/suggestions for me? This bed is not Mel's new "standard" mix, it is a mix based on recommendations from my local, favorite nursery that has never steered me wrong. It is a bit of sterilized, bagged topsoil (less than 1/4 of the total) along with multiple bags of 4 different kinds of compost, slightly more than 1/2 of my own, very mixed-source compost that includes horse and cow manure, kitchen scraps, yard and garden trimmings, a little spent potting soil (that has some perlite and vermiculite), greensand, lavasand, organic granular fertilizer, bone meal, blood meal, and a bit of dried molasses.

I know I'm bordering on sacreligious by not using Mel's standard mix, but remember, he recommends using pretty much straight compost in areas where vermiculite and peat are not available or too expensive, and it just makes more sense to me to use that as my primary and add supplements, especially after reading about all the problems so many people have had with the standard mix. I just don't want to plant asparagus (which doesn't like to be disturbed) and then have to spend the rest of my life supplementing to make up for a basic deficiency.

So, back to cover crops and green manure. Anybody used these and how did it work out?

What do you need cover crops for? What do you use? Does anyone else do this?

I was just reading a few posts and people were saying that they were planting Cover Crops. I don't know anything about this!

Cover crops or green manure crops are crops that you plant in the "off" season, for me it is fall, and plow under in spring, a couple of weeks before you plant your regular stuff. The theory behind it is that these green manure crops put lots of nitrogen that is needed by your other crops, back into the soil. As well when you till them under they add lots of organic matter to the soil. There are several crops you can use for this......fava beans, vetch, and there are others.

In the SFG, it is probably not really necessary because as we harvest a square we dig in more compost to replace the nutrients that our crop used up.

My potato patch is not the SFG style but the rest of my garden is. The soil is very poor where I planted the potatoes. Potatoes are okay with a poorer soil but it is not good to keep planting them in the same area year after year so to prepare the ground for corn, which I will plant there next year, I wanted to get more nitrogen in the soil. That is why I am using a cover crop. Plus, it is just one more thing to experiment with.

That is not the best explanation in the world but I hope it helps.

GK

I am very curious to hear how this works in a SFG. I *love* the idea, but am a little concerned that turning it under may be tough to do in a small raised bed.

So i was curious about this, because it isn't talked about in the book. If i've been growing beans or peas during the summer is it ok to work the crops into the soil once they've produced my food? This would be similar to a cover crop i guess, but i planted the crops to get the produce...not for fertilizing...but figured since they're in there, why not re-work them back into the soil to add in some extra nutrients? Anyone done this in their SFG before?

I would compost the debris. One reason is to avoid disease, the other is that there is no immediate benefit from doing so, because it has to take time to break down. I take completed compost and add that before planting again.

So is it best to have a cover crop in a SFG? I mentioned earlier this year about my not so great soil conditions and to amend it for next year, I need to add compost and perhaps some peat moss/vermullite to it. I put in a Rye Cover Crop from Burpee this year to try and boast the nutrients that are in garden now.

If you follow the method described by Mel Bartholomew in the 'All New Square Foot Gardening' book (2006) there is no use of soil. There is no dirt in Mel's mix and cover crops are not needed.

Amending existing gardens with the same components Mel uses in his mix will improve your soil. Compost is an ideal amendment. Green manures or cover crops are a good tool in building up tired soil in row gardens as the crop must be turned under and the best way to do that is by mechanical means. Cover crops are not recommended in the SFG.

Here is a great thread.
https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t7452-mel-s-mix-how-strong-is-your-backbone

joe23 wrote:So i was curious about this, because it isn't talked about in the book. If i've been growing beans or peas during the summer is it ok to work the crops into the soil once they've produced my food? This would be similar to a cover crop i guess, but i planted the crops to get the produce...not for fertilizing...but figured since they're in there, why not re-work them back into the soil to add in some extra nutrients? Anyone done this in their SFG before?

If I were inoculating my legumes, I'd probably leave the root systems in the ground just to build up beneficial fungus in the mix so I wouldn't need to use inoculates. Other than that, composting outside of the box seems to be the best way.

Using chop and drop in my area is just an invitation for diseases(unfortunately) because of the humidity, though I should probably experiment with it(different times of the year for example, but sheet mulching seems to work out fine...not that it helps my SFG). Luckily any weed or compost plant goes through my chickens first(they love comfrey), worms second. Bulk stuff goes in the pile, like when I'm pulling up the solanacaea's at the end of the season(that's a lot of plant matter, especially when growing indeterminate tomatoes!).

Unmutual, when you took the SFG Certification course, what did they say about cover crops?

I purchased a packet of cover crop (peas and oats) as a cover crop for this fall, but really had no use for it as I did a fall garden in every square available after the summer garden was done.

If you use Mels Mix and refresh squares with compost as directed, a cover crop may be more work than what it's worth as you have to prep for spring planting (either pull the cover crop or till it under when it's not completely broken down).

If one still desires a cover crop, the peas and oats mix was recommended to me because it is supposed to be really easy to till through...other cover crops may work but form a really thick cover and/or root mass that is difficult to break through with a shovel in the spring. Mels Mix with no cover crop can be easily worked with the fingers to prep for seeding.

camprn wrote:Unmutual, when you took the SFG Certification course, what did they say about cover crops?

I don't remember discussing cover crops actually(maybe it was something brief like, you don't need to do it). You're getting all the nutrition from the compost, so you don't need them.

Unmutual wrote:

camprn wrote:Unmutual, when you took the SFG Certification course, what did they say about cover crops?

I don't remember discussing cover crops actually(maybe it was something brief like, you don't need to do it). You're getting all the nutrition from the compost, so you don't need them.

When I took the course recently there was no discussion. I wonder if Mel's new book adresses cover crops?

The roots of peas and beans are great to leave right there in the soil to improve it. The roots are better used intact than composted. That is where the nitrogen nodules reside. You can cut the plants down to the soil line in the fall and compost those tops but leave the roots. The soil will be rich in natural nitrogen from the pea/bean roots for the next crop of something else. Yes, rotate those crops.

As for cover crops per se......it depends on the cover crop. In raised beds we don't till or plow so using any deep-rooted cover crop or one that lives thru the winter, can make lots of hard work for the gardener since you will be hoeing, raking, chopping out those new plants and roots by hand. Been there done that and don't ever want to do that again (I sowed rye grass one winter, ugh).

Cover crops using is difficult and nobody can say:"This is the best one of success!"
Two things I give to think about (it'only MY knowledge!)
1.Cover crops, such as fall rye, crimson clover, buckwheat and others are easy to grow. When they are digested by soil microorganisms they restore organic matter and nutrient levels in the soil. Because they are sown thickly, they also help to outcompete weeds. Cover crops also control erosion from heavy winter rains, and help prevent the soil from compacting over winter.
Depending on your growing region, some cover crops will die during the coldest weather. The crop residue is still a valued supplement in the spring.
What cover crops should you plant?
Seed companies sell cover crop seeds as individual crops or as mixes of grasses and legumes. Common annual cover crops suitable for fall planting are:
Hardy legumes
These nitrogen-fixing crops provide a fertilizer as well as organic matter. Planted in fall, they grow slowly until late winter when growth speeds up. Legume crops may not mature until May in some regions. Cut down these cover crops in spring before they go to flower, then till them under.
Hairy vetch (Vicia villosa): Grows to 2 feet high; hardy to -15° F. Hairy vetch is considered the hardiest annual legume. Vetch tolerates poor soil, and matures late. Sow 1 to 2 pounds per 1,000 square feet.
Field pea (Pisum arvense and P. sativus): Grows 6 inches to several feet tall. Field peas are hardy to 10 to 20°F. ‘Austrian Winter’ pea is low growing and late maturing. ‘Magnus’ grows to 5 feet. Sow 2 to 4 pounds per 1,000 square feet.
Berseem clover (Trifolium alexandrinum): Grows 1 to 2 feet high. Berseem clover is hardy to 20° F. Produces high amounts of nitrogen. Sow 2 pounds per 1,000 square feet.
Crimson clover (T. incarnatum): Grows 18 inches high, and is hardy to 10° F. Crimson clover matures late and fixes less nitrogen than other clovers. Sow 1/2 to 2 pounds per 1,000 square feet. If allowed to go to seed, Crimson clover can become an invasive weed....

I maintain that cover crops are a great thing for row gardens, not so the Square Foot Garden.... how much work do you really want to do?

Compost is the miracle answer.

...Two point of my view I want to tell you.
Think about Bokashi EMs for enrich your soil for the spring (sorry I have not experiences about summer or winter). But some of my partnerships with another gardeners in Europe or Australia gave me any inputs.Turn under, or smother, green manure cover crops.
‘Green manure’ cover crops are commonly planted between crop rotations, or over winter, to add organic materials back into the soil and provide a nitrogen-rich fertilizer. These cover crops should be turned under before they go to seed, and several weeks before the bed is replanted.
Turning under a cover crop can be done several ways. You can cut the crop close to soil level using a grass whip, a shears or weedeater. Save the cuttings for the compost or for use as mulch. The remaining stubble can then be chopped and turned under using a hoe. For gardeners growing in raised beds, however, using the hoe can be awkward near the sides of the bed because you don’t want to cut into the bed sides or push the sides outward by the digging action. This can be accomplished though with some care.
Some gardeners do not bother turning under the stubble because it’s less work and they don’t want to disturb the soil. Instead, they plant in between the stubble. The new seedling roots will break down the cover crop root clumps over time.
Another method for turning under cover crops, which puts no stress on the sides of the raised bed, is to ‘smother’ the cover crop by laying down a thick layer of mulch and covering the mulch with black plastic sheeting. This method has the advantage of breaking down the cover crop without having to cut it down or deal with the stubble, and the underlying soil remains undisturbed. This method, however, takes time. In sunny weather, which increases the heat beneath the sheeting, it may take 2 – 3 weeks to effectively smother the cover crop. In cool weather this will take longer. Best luck and regards, Thaiger (I hope you vorgive me the large letter. But you see...it's difficult...)P.S.:my number 1 is selfmade organic fertilizer enriched with EM.

I maintain that cover crops are a great thing for row gardens, not so the Square Foot Garden.... how much work do you really want to do?

Compost is the miracle answer.

+1

This topic has been moved to the NON-Square Foot Gardening forum.
Cover crops are not part of the Square Foot Gardening method. Mel made things nice and simple for this intensive gardening method. No cover crops needed!

ThaiGer, do these other gardeners have square foot gardens or row gardens?

Sowing, cutting, chopping, turning, I don't want to do all that work and I do not have to in a square foot garden. Besides, there is simply not enough room for all that extra activity, nor are my squares that frequently empty of growing food.

With the SFG system, for me if it is warm enough to grow a green manure, it is warm enough to grow food.

Think outside the row garden my friend.

'''the moving is 100% correct,sorry I've only answered ths topic... ThaiGer

The place I could see using a ground cover in SFG would be a bed that is going to be planted in squash or tomatoes or cole crops. Things that use a lot of space. The cover crop could make a top mulch if timed correctly. I have not worked this out yet, I think it might be easier to figure out in longer growing seasons. With the right choice of plants by the time you pull the main crop the cover/mulch crop would be sheet composted.

Dear gardener,the SFG practice combines any concepts from other organic gardeningmethods (not in the negative sense), including raised beds . You can spread a few inches of compost over the bed, and cover with mulch.The mulch protects the soil over the winter conditions, while the compost adds nutrients or, you can skip the compost and mulch and plant cover crops. Many (EM-)friends of mine cultivate raised beds, because they are urban gardener.By that I learned many about cover crops. It's the true, when you have small large place you have to look what is the most effective method and what requirees the minimun of work and cost (SFG). I want only explain my opinion of cover crops no explicid about SFG method. By the way, my garden is not a row garden - a wild garden - which does not exclude that I have a bit knowledge of any kinds of organic practices.
Best luck and regards, ThaiGer.

In my old SFG book there is a short section on cover crops. He is suggesting sprinkling a little bit on an annual grass (winter rye given as an example) on each square as it is emptied in the fall for the season. His reasoning is it is an old method of adding nitrogen rich material to soil and looks pretty. What he is referencing is that nitrogen leaches out of soil (MM or what ever) quite rapidly. To maintain and even add to the nitrogen left at the end of the season you need to use it, and that is done with a cover crop. Another benefit is that empty soil (MM or whatever) is an open invitation to Ma Nature to plant there, she hates empty space, so it is better to have what you want there rather than what ever comes up.

I, personally, have not experimented with cover crops. Just thinking about it.