tomatoes wilted, cucumbers dead, zuchini dying

Hi, I'm Joe and a rookie at the SFG. I'm also very discouraged by my extreme lack of success for growing vegetables that are supposed to be so easy. as the title suggests, my tomatoes have completely wilted, my cucumbers shriveled up and died and my zuchini/squash is not far behind. I went out and got more of these plants and they're starting to follow the others to an early grave. I've reread these sections in Mel's book countless times but I don't know what I'm doing wrong. On the other hand, in another box, my green beans, lettuce, spinach, cauliflower and broccoli are doing well. I've followed Mel's guidance for mixing the components and someone at a nursery told me I burned everything I planted in it. someone else told me too much water, another too little water, another said it was bugs and now I'm thinking a fungus. I don't know what to do, anyone got any advice.

Are the mixes exactly the same in the two beds?

Perhaps you could have mixed different composts in the two boxes and one was not composted properley.

This is a guess from a second-year newbie. lol.

My second gues is that the dying plants are not hardened off and they caught a bit of cold weather?

Another suggestion; are the two boxes in different places so that one gets more sun?

The vermiculite and peat are pretty straightforward. Although, it's easy to get to overdo it with the peat if you bought it compressed and didn't fluff it up before measuring the third.

Can you tell us what you used for your compost blend? Did you use five different sources? It's very hard for us to advise without knowing what was used for the compost.

Five different sources for your compost blend might look something like this:

• cow manure compost
  
• chicken manure compost
  
• leaf humus
  
• mushroom compost
  
• organic compost from kitchen waste
  

Tell us more and we'll try to help!
pattipan

All four of my tomato plants are sick looking. They have been covered up with red mites and some kind of white something on the top of the leaves and I have sprayed with soap insecticide and when they still lived, I dusted with an organic powder, and when they still lived I sprayed with an organic spray. The leaves are folding in and are crunchy, and I still found bugs! I probably killed the plants and quite honestly, I'm afraid to replant. But everything else looks good except the cucumber plants, but I think that 's due to too much rain. I caved tonight and dusted the tomato plants with sevin. Hated to do it because I really wanted to try to go organic this year.

Oh, Pam, how discouraging. Spider mites are the devil to get rid of. I was once told to make sure the plant is not water stressed, and to be sure there is adequate moisture in the air. Greenhouse growers often have mist nozzels on a timer system to help keep mites under control--not practical in the out-of-doors. In hot weather, perhaps you could use a mist nozzel on your hose and hand spray the plants a couple of times during the day. Before work, and directly after coming home, perhaps? Don't know what the white stuff could be, a fungus? Hope someone else jumps in here with some suggestions.

Let me start by saying that I could be totally wrong. That's not a promising start, but I don't have all the answers.

Last year my tomatoes had serious cracking issues, that is from lack of water(or not having consistent watering to be more precise). The peppers did just fine, and so did the green onions and herbs. This was year one of SFG(and veggie gardening, so I'm a total noob too).

This year, some of my early plantings have died(shriveled up and gone south). Some of my current plants are not doing much better either. The cucumber plant survived this initial onslaught, and has finally produce a cucumber after we received an inch of rain. Most of my plants started to look really good after that rain, but now some of the plants that were stressed before that are starting to be stressed again(I don't expect my brandywine tomato plant to survive).

I fluff my peat moss, I measure in equal parts and I finally got 5 varieties of compost this year(yay for shroom compost!). I water every other day(or every 3 days max). I try to guestimate the 1 inch of water that the plants need each week. I give the boxes a light shower to break the crust on the top of the soil, then water each square.

One problem, that is totally my fault, is not going by the LSU agricultural center's guide for plant species that do well in my area. I probably should plant enough of those varieties so I have some production. However, I can't find seed locally that matches these exactly. I know, I could always order on the internet, but I prefer to buy locally, especially during these bad economic times. I could buy all plant starts(of the "approved" types), but that kind of defeats one of the purposes of SFG...direct seeding(that and the fact that 1 pack of seeds is the same price as 1 plant start).

Another problems SEEMS to be that tap water is not the best water for my veggies. Lastly, the dry spell my area has been in since I started veggie gardening(and SFG) is not helping me at all. Clear blue skies might look nice, but all that sun and high ozone is not good for veggies either.

I know this is rather verbose(it's a bad habit), but a lot of factors might be killing your veggies. Are you getting no rain, too much rain, high/low temperatures, are you using plant varieties that do well in your area? These are my problems(I believe), and they may just be yours too.

Joe, it is true that more information on your mix is needed:

What composts did you use?
Did you use the same mix, composts and all, in both boxes?
Did you fluff the peat moss before measuring and mixing it?
Was your Mel's Mix wet all the way through before planting?
Pictures of the plants might be useful.

If your mix was different for the two boxes, then the mix in the one box could be the problem. You could have compost that was not finished composting, and is burning your plants. Unfortunately, sometimes unfinished compost does get sold. If the nursery worker told you that using that much compost would burn your plants, he is incorrect. You can plant in pure compost and not burn plants. But the compost must be finished with the composting process.

If you fluffed the peat moss for one box but not the other, that could explain the problem. Sometimes, peat moss is sold uncompressed in a bag, but the big bales are compressed. Plenty of people haven't realized that it needs fluffing first, and ended up with twice the amount of peat moss they should have, and, therefore, half the compost, which is the nutrients. Perhaps your first box has too much peat moss, but, by the time you mixed for the second box, the peat moss had been jostled enough to be decompressed.

Another big issue some have had is getting their Mel's Mix wet. It seems natural that you water it, so it's wet. Peat moss, though, actually repels water when it is dry, and takes some attention to get it wet. It can be soaked in a bin before mixing it in, or, after mixing, you can slowly water the mix as you stir and stir and stir, until it is all wet. Once peat moss is wet, it will hold the water for your plants, and a light daily (or every other day) watering is usually sufficient to keep it wet. If you put your hand into the box, and the top is wet, but the bottom is dry, this is probably the problem. It's a little trickier after planting, but you can still get it wet by watering the bed moderately two or three times a day until it is wet all the way through.

Hope we can help you solve the problem! It is a different method of gardening, but it's amazing! I'm a first-year SFGer myself, but I've learned a lot on here, and I try to pass it on.

Joe

Looks like this is your first post even though you have been a member for a long time. Glad you stopped lurking and started posting.
The compost issue has already been addressed

Two questions about watering for you and others that have posted reporting problems.

1. Do you have a water softner?
Water softners use salt to condition the water and if your outside water is treated, the salt will damage your plants.

2. Are you watering enough? Remember that you cannot overwater your Mel's Mix, because it drains any excess water.

MissM is correct that very often we don't get our MM wet enough when we first fill our boxes and the peat is a bear to hydrate later. To rehydrate the peat, you will need to water lightly several times a day in order to get the MM moist all the way thru.

Hope that the various responses help you.

Again, Welcome!

Furbalsmom wrote: Joe

Looks like this is your first post even though you have been a member for a long time. Glad you stopped lurking and started posting.
The compost issue has already been addressed

Two questions about watering for you and others that have posted reporting problems.

1. Do you have a water softner?
Water softners use salt to condition the water and if your outside water is treated, the salt will damage your plants.

2. Are you watering enough? Remember that you cannot overwater your Mel's Mix, because it drains any excess water.

MissM is correct that very often we don't get our MM wet enough when we first fill our boxes and the peat is a bear to hydrate later. To rehydrate the peat, you will need to water lightly several times a day in order to get the MM moist all the way thru.

Hope that the various responses help you.

Again, Welcome!

EDITED: Sorry Joe, I guess I misread your join date Everything else applies, and we are glad to have you!

First, thanks to ALL for responding to my desperate plea. My frustration in this method has grown exponentially in the 2 days since my post so any help is much needed and welcome.
OK, there is a slight difference in the 2 boxes: the one with the problems contains some of my own compost, which Mel promised it would be ready in 2 weeks if I followed his instructions. I only used a VERY LITTLE BIT though and it is what my herbs, peppers and onions are growing in. I have since gone back and added mushroom compost and another compost with no benefit. Any suggestions as to what to do if the compost wasn't ready? Also, just yesterday I added some sort of nitrogen boost (what have I got to lose) around the tomatoes and the dying cucumbers. I asked the expert at Lowes and showed her on one of her tomato plants what mine are doing and she said "too much water". At this point I threw my hands up and quit. one says too much water, another says too little water. Meanwhile, I have wild mushrooms growing in my boxes probably because it is saturated from the first person telling me "not enough water".
To answer another question, I have compost from the local landfill, cow manure, mushroom, cotton burr and chicken manure. I probably didn't fluff the peat moss prior to mixing but I knew I needed precisely half of the bale so that wasn't really an issue. I also DID NOT hose it down because master Mel didn't say to saturate it. Rather, I did sprinkle it to keep the dust down as I thought he had suggested. It was also getting a little heavy and more water would've made that worse. I would look to see what he wrote about it but quite frankly, I'm tired of opening that book (notice some disappointment?).
Another tomato plant that I have in a totally separate box, with probably more than enough compost is also wilting and will soon follow the others. As is the cucumber I also have in the same box grown by a neighbor, who's other plants are already producing quite nicely IN REGULAR DIRT. I bought some pre grown cucumber plants with fruit already on them and am not confident about those either. This morning, as a was picking some dead leaves off the pepper plants, a small pepper just let go and dropped...I swear I must've looked like Charlie Brown when he brought the ridiculous Christmas tree back to the rest of the gang and watched the needles fall off.
Also this morning, I noticed the tomato plant stems getting spots on one and a milky white substance bubbling out of another. On Friday, I used one stem as a sacrificial experiment and cut the stem. The inside looked beautiful; no sign of insect, fungus or other wise, just a clear/green tube for water and nutrients.
If watering is such an issue, why are we supposed to have plants requiring a lot of water in the same box that do NOT?
OK, this is getting too long but this is the info I have for now, any thoughts? should I just give my boxes away to someone with a greener thumb? that shouldn't be too hard to find.

Miss M wrote:Joe, it is true that more information on your mix is needed:

What composts did you use?
Did you use the same mix, composts and all, in both boxes?
Did you fluff the peat moss before measuring and mixing it?
Was your Mel's Mix wet all the way through before planting?
Pictures of the plants might be useful.

If your mix was different for the two boxes, then the mix in the one box could be the problem. You could have compost that was not finished composting, and is burning your plants. Unfortunately, sometimes unfinished compost does get sold. If the nursery worker told you that using that much compost would burn your plants, he is incorrect. You can plant in pure compost and not burn plants. But the compost must be finished with the composting process.

If you fluffed the peat moss for one box but not the other, that could explain the problem. Sometimes, peat moss is sold uncompressed in a bag, but the big bales are compressed. Plenty of people haven't realized that it needs fluffing first, and ended up with twice the amount of peat moss they should have, and, therefore, half the compost, which is the nutrients. Perhaps your first box has too much peat moss, but, by the time you mixed for the second box, the peat moss had been jostled enough to be decompressed.

Another big issue some have had is getting their Mel's Mix wet. It seems natural that you water it, so it's wet. Peat moss, though, actually repels water when it is dry, and takes some attention to get it wet. It can be soaked in a bin before mixing it in, or, after mixing, you can slowly water the mix as you stir and stir and stir, until it is all wet. Once peat moss is wet, it will hold the water for your plants, and a light daily (or every other day) watering is usually sufficient to keep it wet. If you put your hand into the box, and the top is wet, but the bottom is dry, this is probably the problem. It's a little trickier after planting, but you can still get it wet by watering the bed moderately two or three times a day until it is wet all the way through.

Hope we can help you solve the problem! It is a different method of gardening, but it's amazing! I'm a first-year SFGer myself, but I've learned a lot on here, and I try to pass it on.

No water softener anymore (got rid of that years ago) and really, I would think the plants would like the crud that exists in the pipes.
As stated in another post, someone at Lowes just told me that I was overwatering, which is drowning the roots. I can't say I disagree with her since I now have little wild mushrooms growing in my boxes and in one case, where the beans are, there is a thin layer of green slime on the top...I think it's getting ample water and before you ask, yes, there are holes in the bottom of the boxes, more than Mel required. I'm not sure how to upload pictures but will happy to do so if you tell me how.
Also, didn't recall Mel (I'm starting to have a bad taste for that name) tell me to soak the mix, but to certainly spray it to keep the dust down, which I did. Since then, I'm sure I've added enough water to get the peat moss wet but tell me if I should do something else. I have also added additional mushroom compost and a compost from the local Abbey (Monks know what they're doing) and have had no success. If anything, I've lost one lettuce plant and a spincah plant. I am seriously at my wit's end and ready to quit spending time on money on this.
Please tell me how to post pictures and I'll do that next post.
thank you very much for your time and help!

Furbalsmom wrote:

Furbalsmom wrote: Joe

Looks like this is your first post even though you have been a member for a long time. Glad you stopped lurking and started posting.
The compost issue has already been addressed

Two questions about watering for you and others that have posted reporting problems.

1. Do you have a water softner?
Water softners use salt to condition the water and if your outside water is treated, the salt will damage your plants.

2. Are you watering enough? Remember that you cannot overwater your Mel's Mix, because it drains any excess water.

MissM is correct that very often we don't get our MM wet enough when we first fill our boxes and the peat is a bear to hydrate later. To rehydrate the peat, you will need to water lightly several times a day in order to get the MM moist all the way thru.

Hope that the various responses help you.

Again, Welcome!

EDITED: Sorry Joe, I guess I misread your join date Everything else applies, and we are glad to have you!

Use the following link on How to post pictures located on your computer

HOW TO POST PICTURES

One area where I had problems was remembering to copy and then paste the link on to my post

I just performed a soil test on my problem boxes and found that all of the nutrient levels were good except for the Nitrogen, which was very low. I will test that bed's soil tomorrow because I have to let it dry out prior to testing. Will post results when I get them. I did add some nitrate to some of the problem plants yesterday so I guess time will tell on that one. I tried posting some pictures but I don't know where they go to when you host or insert an image.

Joe, This is the area I had trouble with too.

Copy the code on the second line

Then paste on to your reply


I hope this helps;

Enlarge this imageReduce this image Click to see fullsize

Furbalsmom wrote:Joe, This is the area I had trouble with too.

Copy the code on the second line

Then paste on to your reply

Ditto on Furbalsmom instructions.

One little quirk of the using the Host an Image method (at least for me in Firefox) is that there doesn't seem to be a way to exit that cumbersome host image box after I paste my code. What I have been doing is I click the button to Preview my post. That's the only way I can get that box to go away. I am open for suggestions if I am overlooking something...

Keep practicing with it Joe, you'll be posting images soon I'm sure!
pattipan

Furbalsmom wrote:Joe, This is the area I had trouble with too.

Copy the code on the second line

Then paste on to your reply


I hope this helps;

Enlarge this imageReduce this image Click to see fullsize

After copying and allowing access, go back to the host an image button to clear the space, and then paste.

thank you both for your help with posting pictures. I'll have to wait until I get home tonight to give it a try and if I can't do it, my wife will figure it out, she's pretty good with computer related stuff. she'd probably get those darn veggies growing too if I got out of the way.

Joe,
I know it can be difficult at first when learning how to garden but please don't give up. Conflicting advice at nurseries has been a common and frustrating experience for me too. A better place to get some really good info is through your local county extension office. Your seedling plants may have been ill to start with. That some times happens.

awww i know your frustration.....

this is my second year of gardening.....last year i bought all starts and didnt plant until the middle of june......things grew ok....just didnt plant enough....

this year is my first time growing most of my garden from seed.....i started them in-doors under grow lights and they have done really well.....my cucumbers were doing great.....i took them outside to visit the garden and harden off for a week.....then planted them in the garden....to have them wither and die....i was so upset....these are my babies......i then bought some replacements from the store....to have them do the same thing....come to find out....after joining here....after been a lurker for the past year....its to cold to be planting my cucumbers.....

i want to reasure you not to give up.....gardening is so rewarding....not only by harvesting....but being out there working in the soil....trying new things....for me spending time with the family.....im learnig as i grow......

hugs
rose

Oh boy Joe.

It sounds like you are really having some problems with your SFG. Don't worry. If you can just stick with us we will get you sorted. First things first, you have to take a step back and slow down. Fixing your problems will require patience and diligence. It will take weeks not days to get back on track. You have to accept that.

If you have a severe nitrogen deficiency this points to some unfinished compost in your boxes.

Store bought compost is a very frustrating thing. You'd think that it would be perfect and ready to go, but sadly this is not the case. Manufacturers these days use the term "compost" very lightly. You have to police the product you get to make sure it is actually finished. There are two easy ways to accomplish this: 1. Look at it 2. Smell it.

Compost should look a very dark brown and should be a fine texture. You should not be able to identify any chunks of stuff (like mulch). Any big chunks will continue to decompose in your box. The decomposition process requires nitrogen, so it "robs" nitrogen from your plants. This is why you see the deficiency. You can try sifting out the big chunks.

Compost should smell like "dirt" or "earth". It should not smell sour, moldy, mildewy, or rotten. If it smells like anything but dirt it is not finished. You'll have the same nitrogen "robbing" issue as with the big chunks of stuff.

Coincidentally, the same two rules apply to the compost you can make at home. Yes, you can get compost in two weeks, but the conditions have to be perfect (very difficult to achieve). You still need to look at it and smell it. If you isn't done you need to continue turning it and moistening it until it looks and smells right. If it is still hot it is still decomposing.

Since your boxes are already filled you can try to counteract the nitrogen robbing by supplementing with nitrogen fertilizer. That way there is enough nitrogen for decomposition and to feed your plants. But, be careful here. You don't want to over fertilize or your can damage your plants.

I'd suggesting using fish emulsion according to the instructions. I'd supplement your SFG with fish emulsion every couple weeks or so (see the directions on the bottle) until your plants are looking healthy. Another good one is Blood meal (again use as directed), but I prefer a complete fertilizer like fish emulsion over a nitrogen fertilizer like blood meal.

Finally, STOP LISTENING TO PEOPLE AT LOWES / HOME DEPOT. They are not experts at all. Most of them have little to no gardening knowledge. They sit through a week's worth of videos and then call themselves experts.

Those few who actually do garden are almost certainly not SFG gardeners. The advice they will give you will almost certainly be the wrong advice where SFG is concerned. This method is not like traditional gardening. It has different rules.

If you have mixed your Mel's mix well it is just about impossible to water too much. The mix will adsorb as much water as it needs and shed the rest. Unlike traditional gardening, you don't have to worry about over watering. More often then not SFGers underwater their gardens. Find a spot in your boxes and dig to the bottom. Is the box moist all the way down? If not, water your garden well. After that check you boxes for moisture. When you mix is dry 1-2 inches down water your box well again. And continue in this vein for the duration of the season.

I hope this is helpful. If you have any more specific question please ask them and we will try to help. Also, when you get a chance please do post those pictures. They will help us identify any other issues.

Excellent advice, Dizzy! Two weeks ago, I set out to put in a third raised bed, just for tomatoes and set out to obtain the ingredients for a new batch of Mel's Mix. Out of five different bags of compost, four were as you describe, the fifth stunk like a barnyard after a rain storm. Solution, get another bag of chicken compost from another source and use the stinky one to mix with the home-grown compost pile, where they can duke it out for an eventual space in the garden. BTW, the new bed is filled with 10 tomato plants, has a modified hoop house over it, and some of the plants are showing yellow flowers! I'm thrilled. Should we prevail and get tomatoes this year, I'll be filling the pantry shelf dedicated to canned tomatoes, tomato sauce, and salsa--which has been almost emptied in the two "green tomato" years we've just had. Mantra: Sunshine, sunshine, sunshine.

pattipan wrote:

Furbalsmom wrote:Joe, This is the area I had trouble with too.

Copy the code on the second line

Then paste on to your reply

Ditto on Furbalsmom instructions.

One little quirk of the using the Host an Image method (at least for me in Firefox) is that there doesn't seem to be a way to exit that cumbersome host image box after I paste my code. What I have been doing is I click the button to Preview my post. That's the only way I can get that box to go away. I am open for suggestions if I am overlooking something...

Keep practicing with it Joe, you'll be posting images soon I'm sure!
pattipan

Pattipan, I was a bit miffed at the persistent host image box, too, until I realized that, to make it go away, all I had to do was click on the host image button again!

Miss M wrote:Pattipan, I was a bit miffed at the persistent host image box, too, until I realized that, to make it go away, all I had to do was click on the host image button again!

Thanks for that tip, Miss M!

pattipan

Joe, I'm so sorry you're having such trouble with your SFG! This method has been such a blessing to so many of us, that we genuinely want to help you get this sorted out.

Dizzygardener gave some excellent explanation up there, teaching me some new stuff, too. There are several others who have had issues with unfinished compost this spring. With the composts you used (you got some great ones -- manure, mushroom, cotton burr), you should most certainly not have a nitrogen deficiency. It's really looking like somebody sold you some compost that was not completely composted.

(Now, my cotton burr compost was chunkier than I expected, like mulch. I used it anyway, and have had no problem. I'm thinking the blame may lie with one of your manures.)

You are right that Mel does not go into the details of saturating your Mel's Mix. He is very clear about you just misting it as you mix it and move it and pour it into your garden. He has only one line about what to do then: "The next step is to fill the boxes, wetting down the mixed-in layers only as you fill it." (p.105) He really should have made that more clear, like this: "As you fill your box, thoroughly wet the mix, stirring frequently, until it is saturated. Do not plant until you are sure that all of the mix is thoroughly damp."

It is actually possible, because of the properties of peat moss, to have mushrooms and green stuff growing in the top layer, and have the bottom 4 inches still be dry. Please do feel your mix down to the bottom to make sure it is wet. Why you have green slime is a mystery to me. The mushrooms, however, are another symptom that you may have unfinished compost. Mushrooms are decomposers. If there is nothing left to decompose, the mushrooms will not be as much at home.

pattipan wrote:Thanks for that tip, Miss M!

pattipan

You're welcome!