Otherwise rational, friendly neighbor who puts me down for "doing whatever it takes" to grow what I want.

And I water and tend their yard when they're out of the country.

But doing that is intervening in the natural course of things! So clearly you should not do that anymore. And/or they are hypocrites. ;-)

jtwenting wrote:

Chopper wrote:It is actually laughable looking at their naivete. Truly. Do they ever shop for food at the store? Do they think that stuff falls from the sky?

You'd be surprised...
A while ago there was a PETA (or similar group) campaign against hunting here where they claimed that "if people insist to eat meat they should get it at the supermarket so no animals get killed for it".

I laughed out loud at this - as someone else said - there just are no words, for this or the notion that Donna shouldn't do anything to help the garden along.

I say go Mels mix, go compost, go green - and save your precious bounty for those who appreciate the effort and care you put into your produce.

I know it doens't do much to help your bruised feelings, I would love to have a SFG'er next door to me - I love the look of the work in progress.

Chin up and know that you are doing a great thing - and doing it the right way.

And how, pray tell, do they leave the country? Float?

On their environmentally green jet plane

Ha-v-v wrote:On their environmentally green jet plane

Thanks HA-V-V........I needed a good laugh. That is soooooo true.

I used to work in the green building industry in the US, and it's always saddened me to see how many people engage in this nonsense of "I'm greener than you are".

Let's all work together toward a common goal, and accept that some life changes are easier for some families than for others, but that ANY action we take toward protecting the planet is a positive action to be celebrated, not torn down because it's not enough.

johnfromfl wrote:

jtwenting wrote:

Chopper wrote:It is actually laughable looking at their naivete. Truly. Do they ever shop for food at the store? Do they think that stuff falls from the sky?

You'd be surprised...
A while ago there was a PETA (or similar group) campaign against hunting here where they claimed that "if people insist to eat meat they should get it at the supermarket so no animals get killed for it".

How ironic it is that PETA (or similar group) is for animal rights and tell people to stop killing animals and go to the store and buy their meat. Definitely Ironic.

Seeing as PETA kills tens of thousands of cats and dogs (and probably other pets) handed to them by people for resettlement in good homes, not surprising at all.
They've even been taken to court (and convicted) for it, albeit only for the illegal dumping of the carcasses and possibly for deceiving customers.

Also hardly surprising given the type of people that typically are attracted to such organisations (at least as the common crowds to fill out the membership roster and bulk up protest marches).
These are the poorly educated urban masses, who think everything they buy in the supermarket comes from a factory, never considering what went into the production of the raw materials for those products.
So they see a side of beef in a plastic container in the supermarket, and never once make the connection to the cattle truck running the highway next to their neighbourhood, or the connection between that truck, a slaughterhouse, a meat packing firm, and an industrial scale cattle ranch.
They'll also happily buy venison at the supermarket come Christmas, then join a protest march against deer hunting next spring. Again, they just can't make the mental connection between that piece of meat they buy and the hunter who shot the deer that provided that meat.

These neighbours are the same.
They see you actively manipulating the soil in order to increase crop yield and think that's wrong. But they don't see anything wrong in irrigating their own garden or planting things there that aren't native to the area (in fact I bet you they don't even know what's native to the area and destroy any native plant that does creep into their garden as a weed or pest).

LaFee wrote:that ANY action we take toward protecting the planet is a positive action to be celebrated, not torn down because it's not enough.

I have to disagree there, in part.
Some actions intended to "safe the planet" in fact harm it, directly or indirectly.
In fact a lot of what's done "against global warming" is in fact quite harmful. Not only because it has 0 effect towards its stated goal (which is not surprising as that stated goal is a hoax) but because it creates a lot of negative sentiment in the general population towards conservation in general.
Same with "organic farming" on an industrial scale. It has been shown conclusively that this isn't feasible to generate the amount of food required by the current population, certainly not without massive deforrestation (and thus destruction of habitat).
It's nice to supplement your dinner with some stuff you grow yourself, but can't replace everything by far.

Windpower (a green dream) has severe side effects that are either glossed over or aren't studied to prevent the suspicion about the problems becoming general knowledge.
It's known for example that wind turbines has an effect on wind and precipitation patterns in the surrounding area. What has not been studied is the large scale effects on regional and even global wind and precipitation patterns of very large wind farms like are being built offshore in several parts of the world.
Windfarms are also known to disturb the migration routes of birds, killing tens of thousands of migrating birds each year. This has led to windfarms in many places having to be shut down for days on end during the migration seasons, others had to be moved because they were blocking breeding colonies of birds from reaching their hunting grounds (happened around where I live, luckily that one was caught before construction began or it might have destroyed an entire colony of cormorans).

Mind I'm not even talking about the flawed idea that "alternative energy sources" actually "reduce CO2 output", a flawed idea on more than one level.
As we gardeners know CO2 is fertiliser, not a pollutant at all A CO2 rich environment is good for plant growth, which increases CO2 absorbtion.
Leaving the hoax that CO2 causes the planet to heat up, this alone should be enough to indicate that an increase in atmospheric CO2 would be a good thing in a cooling world (we just had the coldest month of May here since the 1930s, after just about the worst winter in a century).

I was referring to things like composting...using cloth bags instead of paper or plastic...not bathing your yard in gallons of chemicals...

CO2 levels have been higher in the past. There simply isn't enough data to know decisively yes or no if we've caused the latest bump...or even if it's anything but a statistical bump (I'm old enough to remember when the headlines shrieked the coming of another Ice Age after a series of abnormally cold winters)

But there also simply isn't any reason why we can't clean up after ourselves at least a little.

You'll have to find someone else to have a political argument with...because I'm not interested.

But there also simply isn't any reason why we can't clean up after
ourselves at least a little.

This is how I see it as well !! We try to teach ours to give back what we take. Its not so hard, and I have a blast at it !! I love being in the garden, do you think because it has extra oxygen ? Like a casino with pumped in oxygen to make us go and stay longer? (Im kidding about the casinos ) lololololol

Ha-v-v

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's like explaining to a vegan all the benefits of eating meat. You just need to agree to disagree, because I am sure, as usual the "TRUTH" is somewhere in between.
I happen to NOT share the idea that things should grow on their own, but hey, there are many flavors of beliefs in this world, no need to beat yourself up about the differences. Besides, your neighbors aren't the true adherents anyway, because modern vegetables are all results of selection and otherwise human intervention to make them more useful, juicier, bigger, more disease resistant etc, so they are not "naturally evolved".

donnainzone10 wrote:My neighbors plant native, drought tolerant plants in their yard and ornamentals and edibles in large pots. Including garlic and onions from sets I gave them. And I water and tend their yard when they're out of the country.

Interesting comment about olive trees. There are more than 100 of them in this complex, and all were trimmed properly this year, rather than merely feathered and shaped slightly. The thinking was that the HOA could spray each spring to decrease the number of olives produced, thus reducing the ensuing mess/slip-and-fall hazard.

The first year this method was attempted, they sprayed in late March. This produced a record crop of olives.

Again the second year, they sprayed a bit late. Both times, I had to cover EVERYTHING in my yard with plastic, including 8 rose bushes. What a chore!

Last year, there were about three times as many olives as the prior year.

I spoke with the property manager and his assistant a few times, and I guess they finally got it right. Hack, don't spray.

And yes, my neighbors love their olive tree; it's part of the reason they purchased here. On the bright side, they don't seem to object to the heavy trimming.

Still, I feel insulted and hurt. Another neighbor once told me that when I first moved in, my yard looked like it belonged in a third-world country. It's been a slow, gradual process, but it now looks fairly attractive, thanks to my planning, efforts, and SFG.

Thanks, everyone, for your concern and understanding.

Wow, even more reasons that I don't want to buy a house in an HOA.

When I bought my house it looked like it belonged in a third world country too. The front lawn looked better when I let the weeds grow then when I tried to weed and feed them. I'm still trying to cut down all the trees and it's not like I have acres I'm trying to work with, just under a quarter acre. It is a long process, but it's worth it.

Thanks HA-V-V........I needed a good laugh. That is soooooo true.

You are welcome, our family tends to deal with stress with humor Hurt me.. I will be mad and hurt then the jokes come from family members to cheer me up

Ha-v-v

Uh, what do your uber "green" neighbors do with all their vegetable waste if they feel that composting is somehow manipulating nature too much?????? They don't feel that their yard may have been stripped of natural nutrients from the construction of the subdivision? Chemicals that were used to put in their lawn and plants that were there before they arrived? Aren't we supposed to be stewards of the land? I dunno. Sounds like these people just plain don't get it at all.

LaFee wrote:I used to work in the green building industry in the US, and it's always saddened me to see how many people engage in this nonsense of "I'm greener than you are".

Let's all work together toward a common goal, and accept that some life changes are easier for some families than for others, but that ANY action we take toward protecting the planet is a positive action to be celebrated, not torn down because it's not enough.

I think that's just how things are these days. Mommy wars are all the rage too. We all want to be good mommies, but for some reason that requires making sure someone else is a worse mom than we are. Cloth Diapering and Breastfeeding are ways to combine the "I'm greener than you" thing with the "I'm a better mother than you" thing. As much as I miss Hawaii, where I had my first 2 kids, I don't miss the Mommy Wars out there. We live in a small town now where people aren't even really aware of all the bologne over parenting styles and high-end strollers and differences in various CD brands. People's knowledge of breast pumps are limited to what Kmart sells. It's kind of sad and kind of refreshing at the same time.

My neighbors do occasionally give me a bag of produce waste for my compost bin. I wish they'd do so more often!

And no, they don't have a lawn in their back yard. You'll notice that I have nothing negative to say about them, other than that one hurtful remark.

As to climate change: I agree that the alleged recent warming may well be a "statistical bump" and that other forces, including gamma rays, changes in the earth's rotation on its axis, volcanic eruptions, sunspots, etc. probably are more important factors than man-made warming. And that we're overdue for an ice age.

I've also read that there has been no net global warming for ten years or so.

LaFee wrote:I was referring to things like composting...using cloth bags instead of paper or plastic...not bathing your yard in gallons of chemicals...

CO2 levels have been higher in the past. There simply isn't enough data to know decisively yes or no if we've caused the latest bump...or even if it's anything but a statistical bump (I'm old enough to remember when the headlines shrieked the coming of another Ice Age after a series of abnormally cold winters)

But there also simply isn't any reason why we can't clean up after ourselves at least a little.

Fully agree with that.
Just be pragmatic, if something sounds fishy it may well be
For shopping I usually use reusable plastic bags, some I've been using for years. The cloth bags I've found are usually either too small or too flimsy.

CO2 levels have indeed been higher in the past, and at times when it was significantly colder than it is now (like at the beginning of the last great ice age).

I drive a hybrid car, not because of the religious fervour of some, but because it's practical, comfortable, cheap to operate, and I get a nice tax incentive to boot
If it's also got lower emissions, that's a side effect of being cheap to operate (fuel efficient means buying less gas means less emissions).

And of course, don't litter, in the broadest sense of the word. But also don't go ballistic when you accidentally drop a paper hanky and rush after it as it's blown by the wind into a thicket of brambles full of nesting birds.

Over here, using your own bags at the grocery store is a given...or you must purchase a bag to get your groceries home!

The plastic ones are usually 3 cents apiece (about a nickel at the current exchange rate) -- but most people buy a heavy reinforced Tyvek-type bag that lasts forever for the equivalent of just under a dollar. The stores will replace THAT bag for life -- you bring the wrecked bag to customer service, and they give you a new one.

But it's good...you very rarely see plastic bags hanging off trees and things!

(I have a number of bags made of parachute nylon...they're lightweight, but really strong...and when you walk a half a mile home from the store, you don't want them overloaded, anyway!)

That's cheap bags, Lafee
Here, a few countries over, the disposables cost 10-25 Euro cents (depending on store and size), the reusable ones 2.50-5 Euro and are not replaced by the store when they break (you have to buy another one).

Should I post you a few?

As abhorrent as Sam's Club can be, I LOVE, love, LOVE their reuseable grocery bags. They're huge and strong and square on the bottom, they have short AND long handles for your preference of how to haul your goods. I have the old style which is a tad bigger (longer) and the newer ones, so, 4 of those and I can tote over $200 of produce and frozen/boxed items home. For my CSA box, I use just ONE bag for a whole week's worth of veggies. I highly recommend them. I think for two, they were $3.00, maybe, maybe $4.00. I've had them for over 2 years and they are still as tough and together as the day I bought them.

I am so amazed at people (and that's not a compliment!)

Donna, I do understand the hurt. When people treat me unkindly, I know, believe and understand that they are the ones with a problem, not me. It doesn't mean I don't feel hurt and/or saddened by the attack.

Third world country? Nice manners. And I truly don't get the point of the attack of your neighbors. You'll do anything? Baffling!

I love the story of the olive trees, by the way!

I complained and complained and complained to a wise friend about my sister. (We do not have a Hallmark relationship.) At one point, wise friend told me she thinks my sister is jealous of me. To me it still looks like unfeeling mean-ness, but the jealousy concept does somewhat fit also.

It is hard where you thought you had a friendly relationship with these folks, but you keep on keeping on, and you come to us when you need to hang out with people who understand and appreciate what you are doing.