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Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana
3 posters
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Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana
I just discovered the SFG forum. I've got a hold on the 2018 edition of NSFG at the library and while waiting for it to get to my turn (3rd in line), I thought I'd peruse the forum.
I'm a beginner and after retirement decided to move back to Western Montana where I grew up. I moved back in 2020 (just before the lockdown) then in 2021 I moved into my new mfgr'd home in a rural area about 9mi south of town. I've wanted a garden for decades but this is the first time in my adult life that I'll have both the time and the space to grow a garden (my childhood home had a huge garden until I was 10). I specifically selected the (rented) lot my home is on because it had an ideal south-facing place for a garden, versus the other lots that were available (which had trees shading the whole yard).
I spent the first year in my new home watching the sun/shade progress across the yard thru the seasons to figure out the best placement for the beds. Last year I spent planning and prepping the spot for the raised beds. I stripped the sod off of it and stacked it upside down elsewhere in the yard for the grass to compost. I leveled a huge hump in the middle of the area that was caused by the roots left over from a large tree that was cut down about 12yrs prior (fortunately the roots were pretty crispy so broke up quite easily as I was leveling). I was able to get that all done and the beds placed just 10days before we got the first snow last fall. The beds were kits that I got really cheap on a blowout clearance during the fall of 2020 and I modified some of them to work in this configuration to maximize the optimum area of the yard for the beds. I have 4 beds that are 11" tall and 3' wide. Each bed is made up of 4 sections from the kits. The two center sections are 5' long and the ends are 3', for a total of 16' per bed.
The topsoil is pretty good here from what I can tell, but since this whole area is an ice-age lake bottom there's a lot of gravel/cobble in it as well as some sand, which is why I had planned on raised beds to begin with. Being retired means I now have more time than money, so my original plan was to sift the old composted sod by hand with a compost sifter to fill the beds at least partially. The sifter allows small rock chips and sand (basically quarter-minus) thru with the topsoil but takes out anything bigger. I've already sifted some of the composted sod to get about 3" of topsoil in the bottoms of the beds to hold them in place through the winter. I was hoping to get the beds filled last fall but I'm glad I wasn't able to get that far as I likely would have gotten the mix wrong, so now I'm looking at how to augment them with Mel's Mix in the process of filling the beds. I likely won't get it done in time to plant this year, so the beds will be fallow all summer until the following spring. Meanwhile, I'll use the rest of the season to plan on a method to keep the local deer herd out, as well as the grasshoppers, (they were plague level the first year here, not nearly as bad last year but still enough to be a menace). I found an online source for noseeum cloth that I'm considering since I can't put up fencing around my lot (it's rented and landlord says no fences).
Originally, I was planning on just using peat moss + compost mixed in with the sifted topsoil and had no plans of adding vermiculite until I found this method. I already have 6 bales of peat moss stored in my shed and was planning on using the compost that is available thru the city's composting service (which collects table scraps, leaves, etc), but will now be looking at mixing in cow/chicken manure plus some mushroom compost. I also purchased in-ground worm bins to rotate thru the beds (that I will be feeding with kitchen waste, cardboard, etc) with the plan of leaving a section of each bed fallow for the year as a worm bin. Of course, now that I'm looking at the SFG method, I'm wondering how to incorporate them.
I've been reading thru some of the old posts trying to figure out the most cost-effective way to fill these beds. I found references to the calculator, but get a message that only admins can access it. Since I already have 3" of topsoil in the bottom of the beds, should I mix the MM with the topsoil for a few more inches then top dress with MM? Any suggestions would be welcomed!
I'm a beginner and after retirement decided to move back to Western Montana where I grew up. I moved back in 2020 (just before the lockdown) then in 2021 I moved into my new mfgr'd home in a rural area about 9mi south of town. I've wanted a garden for decades but this is the first time in my adult life that I'll have both the time and the space to grow a garden (my childhood home had a huge garden until I was 10). I specifically selected the (rented) lot my home is on because it had an ideal south-facing place for a garden, versus the other lots that were available (which had trees shading the whole yard).
I spent the first year in my new home watching the sun/shade progress across the yard thru the seasons to figure out the best placement for the beds. Last year I spent planning and prepping the spot for the raised beds. I stripped the sod off of it and stacked it upside down elsewhere in the yard for the grass to compost. I leveled a huge hump in the middle of the area that was caused by the roots left over from a large tree that was cut down about 12yrs prior (fortunately the roots were pretty crispy so broke up quite easily as I was leveling). I was able to get that all done and the beds placed just 10days before we got the first snow last fall. The beds were kits that I got really cheap on a blowout clearance during the fall of 2020 and I modified some of them to work in this configuration to maximize the optimum area of the yard for the beds. I have 4 beds that are 11" tall and 3' wide. Each bed is made up of 4 sections from the kits. The two center sections are 5' long and the ends are 3', for a total of 16' per bed.
The topsoil is pretty good here from what I can tell, but since this whole area is an ice-age lake bottom there's a lot of gravel/cobble in it as well as some sand, which is why I had planned on raised beds to begin with. Being retired means I now have more time than money, so my original plan was to sift the old composted sod by hand with a compost sifter to fill the beds at least partially. The sifter allows small rock chips and sand (basically quarter-minus) thru with the topsoil but takes out anything bigger. I've already sifted some of the composted sod to get about 3" of topsoil in the bottoms of the beds to hold them in place through the winter. I was hoping to get the beds filled last fall but I'm glad I wasn't able to get that far as I likely would have gotten the mix wrong, so now I'm looking at how to augment them with Mel's Mix in the process of filling the beds. I likely won't get it done in time to plant this year, so the beds will be fallow all summer until the following spring. Meanwhile, I'll use the rest of the season to plan on a method to keep the local deer herd out, as well as the grasshoppers, (they were plague level the first year here, not nearly as bad last year but still enough to be a menace). I found an online source for noseeum cloth that I'm considering since I can't put up fencing around my lot (it's rented and landlord says no fences).
Originally, I was planning on just using peat moss + compost mixed in with the sifted topsoil and had no plans of adding vermiculite until I found this method. I already have 6 bales of peat moss stored in my shed and was planning on using the compost that is available thru the city's composting service (which collects table scraps, leaves, etc), but will now be looking at mixing in cow/chicken manure plus some mushroom compost. I also purchased in-ground worm bins to rotate thru the beds (that I will be feeding with kitchen waste, cardboard, etc) with the plan of leaving a section of each bed fallow for the year as a worm bin. Of course, now that I'm looking at the SFG method, I'm wondering how to incorporate them.
I've been reading thru some of the old posts trying to figure out the most cost-effective way to fill these beds. I found references to the calculator, but get a message that only admins can access it. Since I already have 3" of topsoil in the bottom of the beds, should I mix the MM with the topsoil for a few more inches then top dress with MM? Any suggestions would be welcomed!
Traveler's Rest-
Posts : 3
Join date : 2023-03-12
Location : Western Montana 5b
Re: Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana
Traveler's Rest wrote:I've been reading thru some of the old posts trying to figure out the most cost-effective way to fill these beds. I found references to the calculator, but get a message that only admins can access it. Since I already have 3" of topsoil in the bottom of the beds, should I mix the MM with the topsoil for a few more inches then top dress with MM? Any suggestions would be welcomed!
Since you mention earlier that your beds are 11" high, and you have 3" of topsoil in the bottom, you are in a good place for filling the beds. You want 6" of Mel's Mix, which means that the first 5" can be filled with the top soil you have available. If each bed is 3'x16', you will need 24 cu ft of MM to fill the top 6" of the bed. That will be 8 cu ft each of compost, vermiculite, and peat. Do Not mix the topsoil with the MM.
"In short, the soil food web feeds everything you eat and helps keep your favorite planet from getting too hot. Be nice to it." ~ Diane Miessler, "Grow Your Soil"
sanderson likes this post
Re: Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana
OhioGardener wrote:Since you mention earlier that your beds are 11" high, and you have 3" of topsoil in the bottom, you are in a good place for filling the beds. You want 6" of Mel's Mix, which means that the first 5" can be filled with the top soil you have available. If each bed is 3'x16', you will need 24 cu ft of MM to fill the top 6" of the bed. That will be 8 cu ft each of compost, vermiculite, and peat. Do Not mix the topsoil with the MM.
Thanks for the quick reply OG!
So, for all 4 beds I'll need 32cuft of each? If the compressed bales of peat moss double when fluffed, the 6 bales I have (they are 3cuft, not 3.8cuft) will expand to 36cuft, which should be enough with some to spare. Do I have that right?
With the compost, since animal manure should be no more than 20-25% of the total compost that equals about 8cuft total for all 4 beds. Worm castings being no more than 10%, that makes it a little more than 3cuft of it for all 4 beds. That leaves about 21cuft of other compost. Does that sound right?
My local waste disposal company sells compost (from leaves and kitchen waste) and they offer what they call lawn top-dress. It's the same product as their Class A compost but is finely-screened down to 3/16″, half the size of their Class A compost. It's more money than their Class A, but I won't have to screen it myself (it's screened down a little smaller than my compost sifter would do anyway). Do you think this would be a good option?
Thanks again for your help!
Traveler's Rest-
Posts : 3
Join date : 2023-03-12
Location : Western Montana 5b
sanderson likes this post
Re: Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana
Traveler's Rest, Welcome to the Forum from California.
The 11" beds don't have to be filled to the top. If you have 3" of native topsoil, You can top with 6-7" of Mel's Mix and call it good.
Peat moss fluffs an extra 50%. So, a 3 cu. ft. bag = 4/5 cu. ft.
Coarse or super coarse Vermiculte can be ordered online. Greenhouse megastore, Uline (Gradee #4), Farm Tek, AM Leonard.
I'm guessing that the local compost is relatively cheap. Do yet the finely screened compost. You can start off with that as the bulk of the "compost part. You can add composted cow or chicken manure and mushroom compost IF they didn't add anything to it. Next year you can worry about adding different real composts. Just get started this year.
Worms - The worms that feed off veggie scraps are the little red wiggler (Eisenia fetida). They stay close to the surface and I don't know if they would survive your winters. You can set up a system in a protected area that doesn't freeze. There are ideas online about making systems from storage totes or 5-gallon buckets, or buying a ready-made system. You can then added the worm castings as you harvest the castings. https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/search?search_keywords=red+wigglers&typerecherche=interne&show_results=topics
At your latitude, your growing season is short but powerful. You can extend your season with a greenhouse. Would your landlord allow structures that are set on the ground on cement blocks? https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/f16-western-mountains-high-plains
Turan used to be your Regional Host and I think you would enjoy her thread: https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t20520-turan-in-the-western-mountains
So, no fences. But does that mean no 1" PVC frame or wood frame over just the garden area? You can cover with 1/4" hardware cloth on the sides and top to keep out the grasshoppers. But, covering the garden with hardware cloth or insect netting means the pollinators can't get to the squash, melon or cucumber flower for pollination.
Deer control can be PVC fences with no safe landing spot inside.
With 3' wide beds, you would need to have a bare minimum of 2' aisle between the beds and the fencing.

The 11" beds don't have to be filled to the top. If you have 3" of native topsoil, You can top with 6-7" of Mel's Mix and call it good.
Peat moss fluffs an extra 50%. So, a 3 cu. ft. bag = 4/5 cu. ft.
Coarse or super coarse Vermiculte can be ordered online. Greenhouse megastore, Uline (Gradee #4), Farm Tek, AM Leonard.
I'm guessing that the local compost is relatively cheap. Do yet the finely screened compost. You can start off with that as the bulk of the "compost part. You can add composted cow or chicken manure and mushroom compost IF they didn't add anything to it. Next year you can worry about adding different real composts. Just get started this year.
Worms - The worms that feed off veggie scraps are the little red wiggler (Eisenia fetida). They stay close to the surface and I don't know if they would survive your winters. You can set up a system in a protected area that doesn't freeze. There are ideas online about making systems from storage totes or 5-gallon buckets, or buying a ready-made system. You can then added the worm castings as you harvest the castings. https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/search?search_keywords=red+wigglers&typerecherche=interne&show_results=topics
At your latitude, your growing season is short but powerful. You can extend your season with a greenhouse. Would your landlord allow structures that are set on the ground on cement blocks? https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/f16-western-mountains-high-plains
Turan used to be your Regional Host and I think you would enjoy her thread: https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t20520-turan-in-the-western-mountains
So, no fences. But does that mean no 1" PVC frame or wood frame over just the garden area? You can cover with 1/4" hardware cloth on the sides and top to keep out the grasshoppers. But, covering the garden with hardware cloth or insect netting means the pollinators can't get to the squash, melon or cucumber flower for pollination.
Deer control can be PVC fences with no safe landing spot inside.
With 3' wide beds, you would need to have a bare minimum of 2' aisle between the beds and the fencing.


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