Square Foot Gardening Forum
[table bgcolor=#000000 height=275][tr][td]
Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana Toplef10Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana 1zd3ho10

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.

Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana I22gcj10Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana 14dhcg10

[/td][/tr][/table]

Join the forum, it's quick and easy

Square Foot Gardening Forum
[table bgcolor=#000000 height=275][tr][td]
Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana Toplef10Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana 1zd3ho10

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.

Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana I22gcj10Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana 14dhcg10

[/td][/tr][/table]
Square Foot Gardening Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 

 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Peat Pots and Peat Pellets
by GreenScienx_Sug Today at 5:50 am

» Joann's fabric bankruptcy
by has55 Yesterday at 9:13 pm

» Senseless Banter...
by OhioGardener Yesterday at 12:11 pm

» Fire Ring / Round Raised Bed Planter
by donnainzone5 Yesterday at 11:47 am

» Galvanized Fire Ring for Rhubarb Raised Beds?
by OhioGardener Yesterday at 10:34 am

» Happy St. Patrick's Day
by Scorpio Rising 3/17/2024, 5:54 pm

» Kiwi's SFG Adventure
by KiwiSFGnewbie 3/17/2024, 4:58 pm

» N & C Midwest: March and April 2024
by Scorpio Rising 3/16/2024, 12:16 pm

» Prefab compost question
by sanderson 3/14/2024, 11:40 pm

» New gardener from Santa Fe NM
by Turan 3/14/2024, 2:06 pm

» Compost bins: Open vs. closed
by OhioGardener 3/13/2024, 5:48 pm

» Heat Mat Temperature Test
by sanderson 3/13/2024, 1:31 am

» Bokashi
by OhioGardener 3/12/2024, 5:37 pm

» Happy Birthday!!
by Scorpio Rising 3/11/2024, 10:28 am

» What are you eating from your garden today?
by Scorpio Rising 3/10/2024, 8:38 pm

» Why I love Oregano in the garden.
by OhioGardener 3/10/2024, 8:16 am

» Comfrey
by OhioGardener 3/9/2024, 6:07 pm

» Sealing Barrels Flowers Struggling-Need Ideas
by Turan 3/9/2024, 3:09 pm

» Hello again from a slightly different part of Central PA!
by sanderson 3/9/2024, 1:46 pm

» Chicken manure compost
by Oopsiedaisy 3/8/2024, 7:56 pm

» Chinese Broccoli
by sanderson 3/7/2024, 10:28 pm

» Heat Mat Lifespan
by Scorpio Rising 3/7/2024, 9:33 am

» Now is The Time To Take Seed Inventory
by OhioGardener 3/6/2024, 4:36 pm

» Mark's first SFG
by sanderson 3/5/2024, 10:55 pm

» Greetings from a haggard mom
by sanderson 3/5/2024, 2:32 am

» Drip Irrigation question
by HDNoviceGardener_CA 3/4/2024, 9:50 pm

» Recommended store bought compost - Photos of composts
by sanderson 3/2/2024, 8:20 pm

» raised bed quanders
by OhioGardener 3/1/2024, 7:32 pm

» N&C Midwest January & February 2024
by OhioGardener 3/1/2024, 7:15 am

» Seeds 'n Such Leap Year Sale
by sanderson 2/29/2024, 1:42 pm

Google

Search SFG Forum

Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana

3 posters

Go down

Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana Empty Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana

Post  Traveler's Rest 3/12/2023, 6:45 pm

I just discovered the SFG forum. I've got a hold on the 2018 edition of NSFG at the library and while waiting for it to get to my turn (3rd in line), I thought I'd peruse the forum. 

I'm a beginner and after retirement decided to move back to Western Montana where I grew up. I moved back in 2020 (just before the lockdown) then in 2021 I moved into my new mfgr'd home in a rural area about 9mi south of town. I've wanted a garden for decades but this is the first time in my adult life that I'll have both the time and the space to grow a garden (my childhood home had a huge garden until I was 10). I specifically selected the (rented) lot my home is on because it had an ideal south-facing place for a garden, versus the other lots that were available (which had trees shading the whole yard). 

I spent the first year in my new home watching the sun/shade progress across the yard thru the seasons to figure out the best placement for the beds. Last year I spent planning and prepping the spot for the raised beds. I stripped the sod off of it and stacked it upside down elsewhere in the yard for the grass to compost. I leveled a huge hump in the middle of the area that was caused by the roots left over from a large tree that was cut down about 12yrs prior (fortunately the roots were pretty crispy so broke up quite easily as I was leveling). I was able to get that all done and the beds placed just 10days before we got the first snow last fall. The beds were kits that I got really cheap on a blowout clearance during the fall of 2020 and I modified some of them to work in this configuration to maximize the optimum area of the yard for the beds. I have 4 beds that are 11" tall and 3' wide. Each bed is made up of 4 sections from the kits. The two center sections are 5' long and the ends are 3', for a total of 16' per bed. 

The topsoil is pretty good here from what I can tell, but since this whole area is an ice-age lake bottom there's a lot of gravel/cobble in it as well as some sand, which is why I had planned on raised beds to begin with. Being retired means I now have more time than money, so my original plan was to sift the old composted sod by hand with a compost sifter to fill the beds at least partially. The sifter allows small rock chips and sand (basically quarter-minus) thru with the topsoil but takes out anything bigger. I've already sifted some of the composted sod to get about 3" of topsoil in the bottoms of the beds to hold them in place through the winter. I was hoping to get the beds filled last fall but I'm glad I wasn't able to get that far as I likely would have gotten the mix wrong, so now I'm looking at how to augment them with Mel's Mix in the process of filling the beds. I likely won't get it done in time to plant this year, so the beds will be fallow all summer until the following spring. Meanwhile, I'll use the rest of the season to plan on a method to keep the local deer herd out, as well as the grasshoppers, (they were plague level the first year here, not nearly as bad last year but still enough to be a menace). I found an online source for noseeum cloth that I'm considering since I can't put up fencing around my lot (it's rented and landlord says no fences).

Originally, I was planning on just using peat moss + compost mixed in with the sifted topsoil and had no plans of adding vermiculite until I found this method. I already have 6 bales of peat moss stored in my shed and was planning on using the compost that is available thru the city's composting service (which collects table scraps, leaves, etc), but will now be looking at mixing in cow/chicken manure plus some mushroom compost. I also purchased in-ground worm bins to rotate thru the beds (that I will be feeding with kitchen waste, cardboard, etc) with the plan of leaving a section of each bed fallow for the year as a worm bin. Of course, now that I'm looking at the SFG method, I'm wondering how to incorporate them.

I've been reading thru some of the old posts trying to figure out the most cost-effective way to fill these beds. I found references to the calculator, but get a message that only admins can access it. Since I already have 3" of topsoil in the bottom of the beds, should I mix the MM with the topsoil for a few more inches then top dress with MM?  Any suggestions would be welcomed!
Traveler's Rest
Traveler's Rest

Female Posts : 3
Join date : 2023-03-12
Location : Western Montana 5b

Back to top Go down

Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana Empty Re: Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana

Post  OhioGardener 3/12/2023, 7:50 pm

Traveler's Rest wrote:I've been reading thru some of the old posts trying to figure out the most cost-effective way to fill these beds. I found references to the calculator, but get a message that only admins can access it. Since I already have 3" of topsoil in the bottom of the beds, should I mix the MM with the topsoil for a few more inches then top dress with MM?  Any suggestions would be welcomed!

Since you mention earlier that your beds are 11" high, and you have 3" of topsoil in the bottom, you are in a good place for filling the beds. You want 6" of Mel's Mix, which means that the first 5" can be filled with the top soil you have available.  If each bed is 3'x16', you will need 24 cu ft of MM to fill the top 6" of the bed. That will be 8 cu ft each of compost, vermiculite, and peat.  Do Not mix the topsoil with the MM.

____________________________

"In short, the soil food web feeds everything you eat and helps keep your favorite planet from getting too hot. Be nice to it."  ~ Diane Miessler, "Grow Your Soil"
OhioGardener
OhioGardener

Forum Moderator

Male Posts : 4460
Join date : 2018-08-06
Location : SW Ohio

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkKWnsWrs0RIcyIQD1_Z26g

sanderson likes this post

Back to top Go down

Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana Empty Re: Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana

Post  Traveler's Rest 3/12/2023, 11:41 pm

OhioGardener wrote:Since you mention earlier that your beds are 11" high, and you have 3" of topsoil in the bottom, you are in a good place for filling the beds. You want 6" of Mel's Mix, which means that the first 5" can be filled with the top soil you have available.  If each bed is 3'x16', you will need 24 cu ft of MM to fill the top 6" of the bed. That will be 8 cu ft each of compost, vermiculite, and peat.  Do Not mix the topsoil with the MM.

Thanks for the quick reply OG! 

So, for all 4 beds I'll need 32cuft of each? If the compressed bales of peat moss double when fluffed, the 6 bales I have (they are 3cuft, not 3.8cuft) will expand to 36cuft, which should be enough with some to spare. Do I have that right?

With the compost, since animal manure should be no more than 20-25% of the total compost that equals about 8cuft total for all 4 beds. Worm castings being no more than 10%, that makes it a little more than 3cuft of it for all 4 beds. That leaves about 21cuft of other compost. Does that sound right? 

My local waste disposal company sells compost (from leaves and kitchen waste) and they offer what they call lawn top-dress. It's the same product as their Class A compost but is finely-screened down to 3/16″, half the size of their Class A compost. It's more money than their Class A, but I won't have to screen it myself (it's screened down a little smaller than my compost sifter would do anyway). Do you think this would be a good option? 

Thanks again for your help!
Traveler's Rest
Traveler's Rest

Female Posts : 3
Join date : 2023-03-12
Location : Western Montana 5b

sanderson likes this post

Back to top Go down

Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana Empty Re: Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana

Post  sanderson 3/13/2023, 5:05 am

Traveler's Rest,  Welcome to the Forum from California. glad you\'re here

The 11" beds don't have to be filled to the top.  If you have 3" of native topsoil, You can top with 6-7" of Mel's Mix and call it good.

Peat moss fluffs an extra 50%.  So, a 3 cu. ft. bag = 4/5 cu. ft.

Coarse or super coarse Vermiculte can be ordered online. Greenhouse megastore, Uline (Gradee #4), Farm Tek, AM Leonard.

I'm guessing that the local compost is relatively cheap.  Do yet the finely screened compost. You can start off with that as the bulk of the "compost part.  You can add composted cow or chicken manure and mushroom compost IF they didn't add anything to it. Next year you can worry about adding different real composts. Just get started this year. 

Worms - The worms that feed off veggie scraps are the little red wiggler (Eisenia fetida).  They stay close to the surface and I don't know if they would survive your winters.  You can set up a system in a protected area that doesn't freeze.  There are ideas online about making systems from storage totes or 5-gallon buckets, or buying a ready-made system.  You can then added the worm castings as you harvest the castings.  https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/search?search_keywords=red+wigglers&typerecherche=interne&show_results=topics

At your latitude, your growing season is short but powerful.  You can extend your season with a greenhouse.  Would your landlord allow structures that are set on the ground on cement blocks?  https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/f16-western-mountains-high-plains

Turan used to be your Regional Host and I think you would enjoy her thread:  https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t20520-turan-in-the-western-mountains

So, no fences. But does that mean no 1" PVC frame or wood frame over just the garden area?  You can cover with 1/4" hardware cloth on the sides and top to keep out the grasshoppers.  But, covering the garden with hardware cloth or insect netting means the pollinators can't get to the squash, melon or cucumber flower for pollination.

Deer control can be PVC fences with no safe landing spot inside.
With 3' wide beds, you would need to have a bare minimum of 2' aisle between the beds and the fencing. Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana Critte10

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Fresno, CA
Click for weather forecast
sanderson
sanderson

Forum Administrator

Female Posts : 21487
Join date : 2013-04-21
Age : 75
Location : Fresno CA Zone 8-9

https://connect.xfinity.com/appsuite/#!!&app=io.ox/mail&

Back to top Go down

Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana Empty Re: Hello from the north end of the Bitterroot Valley, Montana

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum