Please Check out my Mel's Mix

Soose 4/12/2022, 2:16 am

Take a look if you will at what I've gathered for compost ingredients.

(I need over 90cu ft for this whole garden.
Think of the nine IBC tote raised beds as 3x4 SFG's, 6" deep;
the potato grow bags as each 1sq ft, also 6" deep to start;
and the berry tubs as 3sq ft each - but we'll likely only put 2 plants in each tub
and I'll likely fill a lot more of the tub with other fillers, and use only 6" on top as MM
so that's overestimated. )

Right side of the page is the Mel's Mix arithmetic.
Included, the five (or more) compost ingredients. Notes on those below.

Am I okay, given I don't know 100% of the ingredients especially in that Coast of Maine?
I guess I made a mistake buying the Coast of Maine bags but stuff has been disappearing from stores here
and not being replaced, so when I found it...

Thanks for input!

I do understand that I could make a major mistake this first year with the MM.
Need to avoid that.
Soose
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Compost Ingredient Notes:
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I don't really know what is in the 30% compost included in the Coast of Maine "Grower's Mix" but was told by their home office that it's their richest mix, including fish, etc.. I've adjusted for the fillers in those bags.

I went to a local gardener, "Steve," for his yard/kitchen waste compost, and for worm castings. It's really super nice stuff, all pre-screened. He takes a lot of care with the production, his worm bins are all inside and controlled. He freezes to remove possible pests. I'm sure I could not have done better creating these at home.

I have two possibilities for the mushroom compost - the bulk stuff that turned out to be loaded with fungi but unfinished, and the Black Kow at Lowe's. The bulk, I tried screening and got about 50% yield. I bought a bag of the Black Kow and sampled the topmost of it, seems useable. Have to decide how much labor I want to put into the bulk, or just buy some more bags for now.

Manure, up to 20% of the compost, I have two bags of Epsoma Chicken, but that was the last two 25lb bags in the city as far as I can tell, and I was lucky to get them for this year. So cow manure it is, and the Black Kow from Lowe's seems odorless so it's done enough. For making a compost next year, I have a farmer with Grazon-chem-free manure, free, just needs composting if I want it.

I have not tackled my own compost bins. One is solid kitchen waste. The other composted leaves. It's available and I've estimated 4 cu ft of each but it is probably way more, double or more finished, but some new stuff has been added on top lately not mixed in, and I have not sorted it off yet so not counting on it. Plus my better half stole some for his blueberry patch, lol. We'll start better compost bins once the Summer garden is in.

p.s. I don't see any sea-based compost bagged products around here, in decent sized bags. But the Coast of Maine stuff has fish/kelp stuff in it, supposedly.

**sanderson** 4/12/2022, 4:22 am

This is just a quick reply as you are rushing to get the composts purchased.

Black Kow Cow Manure - the web site says it's composted. Check. Use up to 20-25% of the total compost volume.

Coast of Maine Growers Compost - the back of the bag states it has coir and perlite (yuck). I would consider this 50% compost and 50% = peat moss. I wouldn't use it myself. COM Lobster Quoddy I might use. I think it has about 30-40% peat moss. Or buy 4 or 10 lbs of kelp4less.com crab meal or kelp meal for a sea source and add at the rate of 1 tablespoon per square feet. Razz

You will really have to adjust your 1/3 peat moss for COM products. Should you decide not to use COM, maybe they will exchange it for the Black Cow products.

Steve's careful compost - up to 50% of the total compost volume.

Steve's loving worm castings - up to 10% of TCV.

Mushroom compost - one you have to screen but the large pieces will be great as top mulch and in the compost bin for further composting. The other is more ready-to-use. Up to 30-40% of the TCV.

Remember, you will be amending the beds with more composts so it's okay to have a stock pile.

Soose 4/12/2022, 10:47 am

sanderson wrote:Sanderson wrote:
Coast of Maine Growers Compost - the back of the bag states it has coir and perlite (yuck). I would consider this 50% compost and 50% = peat moss. I wouldn't use it myself. COM Lobster Quoddy I might use. I think it has about 30-40% peat moss. Or buy 4 or 10 lbs of kelp4less.com crab meal or kelp meal for a sea source and add at the rate of 1 tablespoon per square feet. You will really have to adjust your 1/3 peat moss for COM products. Should you decide not to use COM, maybe they will exchange it for the Black Cow products.

Thanks, Sanderson. Appreciate that quick reply.

I remembered you said you don't like the Coast of Maine, at least the highly filled - pricey filler - stuff I got. I learned something that day. But I don't want to take this back, I got a good price on it, and it came from a small co-op that does NOT overprice stuff, not from a big box store (a return like this would really affect their inventory), so please indulge me as I make sure...

If I use the bags of Grower's Mix, in total it will be 16.4% of my total ( 15cu ft out of over 3.4 cu yds of MM), and the nasty perlite part will be 3cu ft out of that 15cu ft or 3.2% of the total 3.4cu yds. I can just accept this3 cu ft as a small portion of the vermiculite third, or even disregard that perlite and insert more vermiculite. Admittedly vermiculite does something GOOD where perlite is just -- there. But the perlite won't harm anything, right?

I thought I could live with that and that I can also pick and choose where I put this part of the mix:
-- I have all those potato bags. (This might be wrong for the berries but that's a small part of what I'm doing anyway. And the perlite might be good for the potato drainage.)
-- I can add more of my other compost ingredients to dilute or disregard the nutrient part of this Grower's Mix.

I like those options instead of taking back these bags.

I've been acquiring ingredients assuming my son wants to use MM for potatoes. (But he may go a different route. It won't hurt to have extra here.) Even if I take a bag of Grower's Mix as a basis for those potato bags, I have calculated the mix and know what I have to add to each bag of Grower's Mix of each category if I use it like that for potatoes, to get to MM percentages.

I did talk to the COM head office before I bought this. I was told that what they put in Grower's Mix for compost was forest products, and then the same stuff as in their "Stonington Blend Organic Plant Food," just a higher percentage in the Grower's Mix I bought than in their other products. I bought it -- at half price -- for the "plant food" part of it. I seem to remember he said it was rich enough that if he were putting it into his veggie beds, he wouldn't add anything else for two seasons.

I figured it would be diluted a good bit and make up for other ingredients that were sub par. (I had not located the local gardener Steve yet, until a few days ago, and was worried.) I also bought a small bag of that plant food to have on the shelf here as the supply chain gets difficult. Both are OMRI listed so I thought I was okay.

I know you've already looked but for others, I'll insert some of the package info, both the Grower's Mix and the Organic Plant Food.

I'm ready to learn. Do tell. Smile

Soose

Soose 4/12/2022, 10:53 am

I know you've already looked but for others, I'll insert some of the package info, both the Grower's Mix and the Organic Plant Food.

Stonington Blend Grower’s Mix

Uses: Containers and large pots. Grows the most amazing tomatoes & vegetables!

Coast of Maine Organic Products Stonington Blend Grower’s Mix is a complex “super soil” designed for high performance container growing. It works well with tomatoes, and, where growing cannabis and medical marijuana is legal, growers have reported tremendous results. This soil incorporates mycorrhizal fungi, kelp, fish bone and alfalfa meal, as well as worm castings, peat, coir and lobster compost. When growing in 15 gallon containers, there is no need for additional nutrients.
It is OMRI listed for use in organic gardens
Available in 1.5cf bags – enough to fill a 10 gallon pot.

Target pH 6.3

We use all natural ingredients
Stonington Blend is 40% sphagnum peat moss, coco fiber (coir), composted manure, perlite, fertilizer (see below) and mycorrhizae.
COAST OF MAINE STONINGTON BLEND
ORGANIC & NATURAL GROWER’S MIX
0.50 – 0.34 – 0.12
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Total Nitrogen (N) …………………………………………… 0.50%
0.50% Water Insoluble Nitrogen*
Available Phosphate (P2O5) ………………………….. 0.34%
Soluble Potash (K2O) ……………………………………… 0.12%
Derived from: Composted poultry manure, fish bone meal, lobster & crab shell, kelp meal, earthworm castings and alfalfa meal.
*0.5% Slowly available nitrogen from composted poultry manure,
fish bone meal, lobster & crab shell, kelp meal, earthworm castings
and alfalfa meal.
ALSO CONTAINS NON-PLANT FOOD INGREDIENTS:
Soil Amending Ingredient Guaranteed Analysis
Active Ingredients
Endomycorrhizae species
Glomus intraradices………………………………………… 0.07 spores/gram
Total Other Ingredients…………………………………… 99.9%
Stonington Blend is carefully formulated from natural ingredients to provide an ideal balance between water retention, soil texture, drainage and aeration in a consistent growing medium.
This unique container mix is named after the historic fishing village of Stonington, located on the south shore of Deer Isle in East Penobscot Bay. Settled in the 1760’s, Stonington is today Maine’s largest commercial fishing port and once home to an important granite quarrying industry.
Stonington Blend contains viable mycorrhizal propagules per cubic centimeter (cc) of the following organism:
Endo Mycorrhizae species:
Glomus intraradices @ 00.07 spores/cc
Endomycorrhizal fungi colonize approximately 80% of the world’s plant species, including most vegetables, fruit trees and shrubs, flowering plants, grasses, legumes and many more. For more information about mycorrhizae visit: https://www.usemyke.com

Soose 4/12/2022, 11:04 am

I can't make this insert a photo from the Plant Food, but here are the ingredients listed on the package:

https://coastofmaine.com/product/stoningtonfood/ wrote:Guaranteed Analysis:
Total Nitrogen 5% (2.1% water soluble/ 2.9% water insoluble).
Avail Phosphate 2%
Soluble Potash 4%
Calcium 4%
Magnesium 1% (1% water soluble Mg)
Sulfur 2% (2% combined sulfur)

Nutrients are derived from fish meal, earthworm castings, alfalfa meal, feather meal, crab and lobster meal, potassium sulfate, kelp meal, and Magnesium Sulfate.

All these ingredients are ground to a powder, pelletized and crumbled to a uniform particle size...

We're OMRI listed.

**sanderson** 4/12/2022, 2:43 pm

This is a slower releasing fertilizer and you should never have to use it in your SFG beds.

It may be appropriate for the berry row where the plants are perennial and you can't mix in more compost each year. I have potted fruit trees and blueberries and use Espoma fertilizers for Citrus, Acid-loving and fruit trees as appropriate.

https://coastofmaine.com/product/stoningtonfood/

Soose 4/12/2022, 5:13 pm

sanderson wrote:This is a slower releasing fertilizer and you should never have to use it in your SFG beds.

Is the problem due to it being processed into a pelletized slow-release form? All the ingredients are good.
If I told you I'd added things like kelp and alfalfa meal to my composted mix, wouldn't that be good?
Earthworm castings? Fish meal. feather meal. crab and lobster meal.

I do see the potassium sulfate and magnesium sulfate. The latter is Epsom salts, I know.
I'd have to ask my better half about the former. I think I've read something about
a build up of salts in SFG's can be a prob over time?

**sanderson** 4/13/2022, 7:29 pm

Soose, the problem is that they are all fertilizers / additives, except for worm castings which are honorary compost. We only use composts to feed our plants.

None of the ingredients you listed are bad things, they just aren't used in SFG. They are used in organic row gardening and other methods. We don't because we rely on composts and microbes. How does one know how much of what to add? Too much of one thing can affect the uptake of a second nutrient or affect the health of the Mix for years as they are slowly used up. It can be a slippery slope using additives

I have used crab meal/kelp meal in the past (2014 and 2016) because my Mel's Mix tested too low in micronutrients. The Mass U lab was set up to test dirt-less growing medium like Mel's Mix. But, after reading "Teaming with Microbes" (Lowenfels and Lewis) and part of "Teaming with Nutrients" (Lowenfels), I have learned to trust the compost/microbe/root system.

Soose 4/13/2022, 8:15 pm

Sanderson, thanks for the reply. I can't make it quote here on my phone. You said the problem is, they're additives...

Finally understanding. No kidding, I have spent the last 24hrs (?since my posts) coming to the same conclusion, and was about to post the question -- is it because they're additives and might mess up the microbes, how I was worried about getting the balance off myself. Must be ESP or channeling. Lol.

I was also going to say, please take pity on me because I just do not have the time to read a book on soil microbiology right now, however much that might be interesting at a different time.

I think I have enough ingredients or close to it to start my MM for my 9 totes/beds. Or will if I buy some Black Kow. (Which luckily isn't that pricey, my worry there was comments in reviews that gave me pause. )

I can filter the COM stuff into the potatoes or berries, test pH there. Is it safe to add it to the compost? I don't want to return it.

Soose 4/13/2022, 8:19 pm

Do you also not use fermented alfalfa cubes, used in organic gardening?
https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/diy-alfalfa-fertilizer-for-higher-yields/

goodtogrow 4/14/2022, 12:18 am

I believe the issue of salt buildup over time that you're referring to, Soose, is as a result of fertilizer being used in a SFG instead of compost. I think that might be part of what you're running into in your quest for compost. Mel says to add compost, not fertilizers (those alfalfa cubes are fertilizers, for example).

Have you looked into Purple Cow compost?
https://www.purplecoworganics.com/pages/activated-compost

Soose 4/14/2022, 9:57 am

goodtogrow wrote:I believe the issue of salt buildup over time that you're referring to, Soose, is as a result of fertilizer being used in a SFG instead of compost. I think that might be part of what you're running into in your quest for compost. Mel says to add compost, not fertilizers (those alfalfa cubes are fertilizers, for example).

Have you looked into Purple Cow compost?
https://www.purplecoworganics.com/pages/activated-compost

Purple Cow looks good -- nowhere near me.

But I've got all I need for everything without using ANY of the bags of Coast of Maine.   Just nothing "sea" sourced. Unless I order from a distance.

I only have to make up 4.5 cu ft compost from omitting the Coast of Maine stuff.   I can use more mushroom compost -- buy Black Kow or screen my bulk -- as long as it's ok to have more mushroom compost than 20% of the compost, and I thought I saw it could be more.

Or I do surely have the 4.5 cu ft in my own compost bins. Kitchen waste in one; yard/leaves in the other.

The truck is running well now, so I guess I can also go out to that farmer about 46 miles away, who says he has organic leaf/yard compost -- and organic manure compost. (Not "Steve" where I got worm castings and compost from over the weekend. A different guy. ) Not sure I'm going to do that. Easier to go buy some Black Kow.

Back to alfalfa. I don't understand why the alfalfa cubes are a fertilizer in this case, though the article calls it a fertilizer. I guess it's not already composted when they start, but they seem to be making a sort of compost tea, active with microbes? And the article is saying the same thing - feed the microbes, don't apply nitrogen. So by the time it gets onto their crop, what is it? Interesting.

Soose 4/14/2022, 10:42 am

I've been saying "Black Kow" but that's only the manure... "Black Velvet" is the mushroom compost at Lowe's.

OhioGardener 4/14/2022, 11:01 am

Soose wrote:Back to alfalfa. I don't understand why the alfalfa cubes are a fertilizer in this case, though the article calls it a fertilizer. I guess it's not already composted when they start, but they seem to be making a sort of compost tea, active with microbes? And the article is saying the same thing - feed the microbes, don't apply nitrogen. So by the time it gets onto their crop, what is it? Interesting.

This is an interesting discussion. I occasionally add organic Alfalfa pellets to the compost tumbler when additional "green" is needed to speed up the composting process, which means it is not a fertilizer but a compost.

Don't feed the plants; Feed the soil so that the soil can feed the plants. Good high quality compost is all you need!

goodtogrow 4/14/2022, 3:44 pm

I think the main distinction between fertilizer and compost is, as OhioGardener basically said, that fertilizer feeds the plants directly, but compost enriches the soil (and soil structure) that in turn feeds the plants. I believe this is why Mel said not to worry about fertilizer and only focus on compost.

Mind you, I do think there are things you can add to your Mel's Mix once or twice during the growing season to potentially boost some things like minerals and microorganisms, for example.

I personally plan on using something I ordered online called "MycorrPlus", which has a small amount of fish, kelp, humic and fulvic acids, sea mineral concentrate (90 trace minerals from the ocean, which are more bio-available than other types of minerals such as rock dust, apparently), molasses, 70 strains of aerobic bacteria and 4 strains of mycorrhizal fungi. It's not really a fertilizer, but something that will help further enrich the soil and will only need to be added once or twice in the growing season. I'm going to add it (diluted with water) when I first mix up my Mel's Mix, and then again maybe halfway through the season.

More info here (I've no affiliation):
https://www.ag-usa.net/mycorrplus.php
https://www.ag-usa.net/proddetail.php?prod=MycorrA_8oz

goodtogrow 4/14/2022, 7:11 pm

I can't seem to edit my last post to add this link to the info about MycorrPlus, so I'll post it here:
https://www.healthy-vegetable-gardening.com/organic-trace-minerals.html

That link (they're the makers of MycorrPlus) has a lot more info about the benefits of growing vegetables with sea minerals (which MycorrPlus contains) and the benefit of eating those vegetables, as well as taking sea minerals directly for health. Again, I've no affiliation, I just think it's interesting.

Soose 4/19/2022, 7:01 am

Update on my first Mel's Mix endeavours.

We built a compost trommel over the weekend. ( A delay in getting my raised beds going, but a long term investment in the current and future compost operation. Plus I have compost ingredients for this MM that obviously need sifting. I'll post photos over on my "Soose in N. Alabama" thread. )

So yesterday, we trommeled (is that a word?) out about 13 cu ft of fine mushroom compost from the bulk 21 or 22 cu ft I bought from the local landscape provider. I only needed 6cuft.

[. But might use it all, rather than the commercial bagged anything including manure. (Not worried about Epsoma, OMRI... but always worries about even Black Kow cow manure and this Old Castle Black Velvet mushroom compost. ) ]

I suspect the source of this bulk mushroom compost before original use had a lot of peat, but have no way to know, only can look at the uncomposted stuff remaining.

It's rich in fungi. I might take the further step of gathering more of the clumps of spores that didn't make it through my 1/4" screen, and breaking them down by hand, to further innoculate the fines sifted out.

Today, I am going to tackle my own compost bins, and see what I can sift out. We'll start building the MM with my own stuff, however much that turns out to be. Stay tuned.

I have plenty of material without using the Coast of Maine, although I think my son wants to use it in his potatoes and it certainly couldn't hurt the berries, if we acidify both. (It seems to be pH neutral. )

I can't remember what pH I should want for Mel's Mix, just to verify. Will consult the books when it's light.

Soose 4/19/2022, 9:15 am

So yesterday, we trommeled (is that a word?) out about 13 cu ft of fine mushroom compost from the bulk 21 or 22 cu ft I bought from the local landscape provider. I only needed 6cuft.
...
But might use it all, rather than the commercial bagged anything including manure.
I suspect the source of this bulk mushroom compost before original use had a lot of peat, but have no way to know, only can look at the uncomposted stuff remaining.

Won't let me edit to add a thought. "Might use it all" - the bulk mushroom fine's...
Then again, if I can get enough of my own kitchen compost and yard leaf compost from my bins and another stash we found in our yard, and I did buy some of the stuff from Lowe's to use instead...

I might just treat this finely sifted bulk mushroom "compost" as an inoculated peat for the Mel's Mix. Definitely still discernible small shreds in there (I have sifted some out. Take a look at the photo. After 1/4" screen. Better than the leavings below. But still... maybe best feed this to worms for a while and go with something else if I can. )

Next job today: start gathering my own compost, see how much I can harvest.

Sifted 1/4":
(We've gathered a lot of the larger bits left out and here it is. I don't have a finer screen than 1/4".)

Leftovers after screening:
(It doesn't show up well at all, but there are many large clumps of damp crumble-able fungi that our screen
did not let through. I'm thinking of grabbing some out and hand-crumbling it into the fine's. My photos do
not show the reality of this stuff well at all. )

Soose 4/19/2022, 10:17 am

I took photos of the samples from Lowe's... my camera just washes out all these photos.
Both samples below are dark black. The photos I sent of the bulk mushroom compost don't do it justice.
It's a dark rich brown.

Here is the Black Kow cow manure. There are a few little bits of bark, but almost all crumbles when you try.
I can't see anything like sand - again, that's my phone camera which seems challenged with these materials.

And here is the Old Castle Black Velvet mushroom compost also sold at Lowe's. (NOT the Black Kow brand which is organic.)
Actually there are little white grains of what looked like sand at first to me. But inspection makes me think it's the white fungi spores.
This photo is closer to the actual color. Again, dark black.

I think I'll go with this bagged mushroom compost. And use the bulk as at least partial peat moss. Until what is left is further composted.

I meant to spend the day out working on MM, looked bright with blue skies -- but it's cold and windy. I hate the delay. So much to do!

Soose 4/19/2022, 10:21 am

We are all agreed here that the best-looking bought stuff I have here is
Steve's two composts (a gardener we drove out to). But actually we are also agreed
that the next best looking and feeling stuff is the Coast of Maine Grower's Mix.
It may have had a lot of peat and coir going into it but that's all well-composted.
It's all a nice rich loam now.

Soose 4/19/2022, 9:12 pm

I am ready to make Mel's Mix. Here are the compost components I used this afternoon.

I need and have over 6 cu ft of each type to create the 30+ cu ft for my 90cu ft of Mel's Mix...

Bags:
1. Old Castle Black Velvet Mushroom Compost from Lowe's, I think I bought 8 3/4 cu ft bags, six cu ft.

(It is more composted than even the screened bulk mushroom compost.)

2. Black Kow cow manure from Lowe's, and Epsoma organic chicken manure.
( I have 5 cu ft of Black Kow? I have 1.5 cu ft Epsoma.)

Garden-sourced:
3. Steve's homemade compost ( have 7.5 cu ft of this in buckets)

4. Steve's home produced worm castings (have 6 cu ft in buckets)

5. My own leaf/kitchen waste compost, aged/ cold-composted.
( We've trommeled out what we think is more than six cu ft, can do more if we need it.
We shoveled out a lot out of one of our two compost bins, which will help with moving the compost area.)

Soose 4/19/2022, 9:30 pm

In my post just now about my compost blend, you'll note that I have NOT included:

-- The Coast of Maine Grower's Mix. My son may use it for part of his potatoes mix, or I may use some in the berry tubs.
Or may replenish some of my earth boxes with some of it. We don't need it for Mel's Mix. It's supposed to be very rich.
It looks very loamy, dark, rich, all composted.

-- The bulk mushroom compost, even the 14 cu ft of screened stuff. (I have about 21cu ft total? )

I wonder about the latter. It seems to be a lot of peat? Guessing.

What would y'all say about me using the screened portion of the bulk mushroom mix as part of the 30+ cu ft of peat that we need?

It's nice enough stuff but not fully composted the way the bagged mushroom compost is, so I decided to
leave it out of the compost part of the Mel's Mix.

I'm not worried about it or the cost (I only paid $45 for the whole load). Just it might have some value
that is not in the peat moss. I mean, it looks like peat moss, fluffs like peat moss... but it has that nice fungi.
Much more fungi than in the bagged Black Velvet mix.

Here are photos.
The fine peat moss from the bag:

Then, the same handful of peat moss on top of the screened mushroom compost (which does have a lot of white fungi in it):

**sanderson** 4/20/2022, 1:58 pm

No, you cannot substitute the immature mushroom compost for fluffed peat moss in Mel's Mix.

You should contact the mushroom grower to find out exactly what it is made of. I think you said earlier that it was sawdust and something. It could be fluffy but it could be the actinomycetes and sawdust making it look that way. Saw dust is a wood with a huge carbon: nitrogen ratio. If it's not composted enough, it will "tie" up nitrogen in the MM.

As I have mentioned before, since the COM has a lot of peat moss in it, it only needs vermiculite. 2 part COM + 1 part coarse vermiculite.

Soose 4/20/2022, 3:07 pm

Might be confusing with someone else's post, no sawdust in this mushroom compost. It looks like peat moss.

Appreciate the distinction, thanks.

What happens to peat moss when it decomposes, then? Am I to draw the conclusion that peat moss in MM does not take nitrogen when it decomposes? (Does it decompose, or has it already in the long years as moss in a bog? ) Very interesting. I mean, I know nothing about it, never thought about it... Should we consider peat moss as already decomposed plant matter?

Here's an interesting article on peat and varying pH... Seems to be a company that produces soilless media? So much to explore!
https://www.sungro.com/issue-33-april-2005-harmonizing-peat-and-lime/
No time to follow it up.

Soose 4/22/2022, 6:53 am

This Mel's Mix mixed by volume -- with the large Uline coarse grade 4 -- just continues to look like it has too much vermiculite. First small load of 6 gallons (posted before, shown spread out in the bed):

We started mixing it after this with only 2/3rds the vermiculite by volume... I can always add more but I can't remove it.
Remember, these are self-wicking beds. By construction, they'll stay damp; no problem with water retention.
Here is a photo of a bed, continuing on from there with this slightly lighter vermiculite mix:

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