New SFG concerns part 1 - Cucumbers in Mel's Mix

This is my first time doing SFG, and I have a series of questions that I will separate into parts so that it will be easier to discuss. 

The first part concerns my cucumbers. I planted cucumber seeds in soil blocks under the lights indoors and transplanted the best of them to my SFG the second week in May. The remaining seedlings I put up in 4-inch pots in potting soil to give to friends. After the giveaway, one remained and I left him on the potting table in the sun. He was the poorest of the bunch. 

In a week, however, he was strong and vigorous, growing very quickly, and I moved him to a small barrel with a trellis. Right now, that plant is 2 ft tall, flowering and growing teeny baby cukes. Good for you, little reject. 

In the meanwhile, the 4 cucumber plants that were transplanted into Mel's Mix are barely any larger than they were when they were under the lights in the Spring. They hardly appear to be growing at all, though they are alive. 

I am mystified by this result. There is a six-foot trellis above them beckoning them to climb, and they sit, short and stubby beneath it, resisting growth upward to the sun.

All other conditions are essentially the same for those and the little reject that could. 

Any thoughts? Dare I doubt Mel's Mix (heresy!)?

Brian

Hi Brian!  MM can be done well or not-so-well, and I made a few mistakes my first year with my MM that have since been corrected.  First question, the weather conditions have been identical, correct?  Sunny locations?  

Do you feel like your MM has the correct proportion especially of the compost component?  A lot of purchased compost/manure has peat in it, and that was my mistake; I ended up with not enough nitrogen source and had to hit everything with blood meal and a weak solution of fish emulsion fertilizer.  Then, stuff did fine.  I used the one from WalMart:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjcv-a3mv_pAhW5VzABHR6yDboQFjAAegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.walmart.com%2Fip%2FAlaska-Fish-Emulsion-Fertilizer-and-Plant-Food-1-Gallon%2F17757317&usg=AOvVaw3PVGYb_v-bS5F2Ad7u380u

Anyone else?

SR, 

My Mel's Mix has 3 composts: Zoo Brew, Cow poo, mushroom compost. Due to the quarantine, I was unable to get more types here in Columbus. The Zoo brew comes from multiple sources, zoo droppings, animal litter, coffee grounds, food scraps, etc. It's what I always use for my garlic and it's fantastic. 

The plants were all in the same location, as sunny as I can get with all the trees around this old neighborhood. 

I have both blood meal and fish/seaweed liquid fertilizer. I will try those to encourage my flagging cukes. Other vegetables are doing pretty well in MM. 

Brian

Sounds like you have a good mix, bgardener.  For whatever reason, sometimes the availability of nitrogen in some composts is just slow to let go.  Keep us posted!  I would side dress with some blood meal and water with a dilute mix of the fert and see how this all goes!

I don't know how accurate this is but I have read on the internet that -  Mels Mix is an organic mix.  It takes time to convert organic amendments into plant usable nutrients.  It takes organisms in the mix to convert the compost into the usable nutrients.  This is not true of synthetic products.  So it may depend on the nutrients in the potting soil you are using for the pots that may be available to the plants immediately but the organic Mels Mix may take longer to convert to usable nutrients.  In the first year I supplemented the Mels Mix with purchased ffertilizer.  Even now, I use Plan-tone fertilizer in mid season if I am growing a vegetable that takes a long time to mature.  But most SFGers on this forum do not use anything but compost as nutrients.

I’m pretty loose on the “rules”, whatever works.

yolos wrote:I don't know how accurate this is but I have read on the internet that -  Mels Mix is an organic mix.  It takes time to convert organic amendments into plant usable nutrients.  It takes organisms in the mix to convert the compost into the usable nutrients.  This is not true of synthetic products.  So it may depend on the nutrients in the potting soil you are using for the pots that may be available to the plants immediately but the organic Mels Mix may take longer to convert to usable nutrients.  In the first year I supplemented the Mels Mix with purchased ffertilizer.  Even now, I use Plan-tone fertilizer in mid season if I am growing a vegetable that takes a long time to mature.  But most SFGers on this forum do not use anything but compost as nutrients.

It's just my theory, but I think it's possible for new Mel's Mix to be low in microbial counts, just due to the composts used. It will takes a while for the microbes to multiply. Therefore, the plants may lag in grow, especially if the weather is cool. Ready-to-use products like potting soil usually have fertilizer in some form. Therefore, the plants take off but can start to lag as the fertilizer is used up. That's what happen to me when I first started in 2013. I didn't use real composts but rather a Kellogg's product. The plants did fine the first 4 weeks and then stopped growing. The folks on this forum helped me realize what I did wrong - which led to 6 years of making 26 batches of compost. I also started sourcing bagged composts to augment the homemade compost.

If plants lag in newly made compost, I think it is okay for organic compost to be added. I have lightly used Espoma Garden-tone in the late season when the mulch (and heat!) makes it hard to top-off with more compost.

I can tell you from experience that "Mel's Mix" needs some real dirt.  It actually has TOO MUCH organic matter. Take some pure Mel's Mix to your local Extension Service and get a soil test and see what the results are.   1/3 to 1/2 by volume of your own dirt and Mel's Mix will  be much more productive.

I don’t have any dirt in my MM, but my beds are open on the bottoms, so over time there is some migration towards the base.  Also helps with microbial populations and beneficials (worms, etc.)

bradjo wrote:I can tell you from experience that "Mel's Mix" needs some real dirt.  It actually has TOO MUCH organic matter. Take some pure Mel's Mix to your local Extension Service and get a soil test and see what the results are.   1/3 to 1/2 by volume of your own dirt and Mel's Mix will  be much more productive.

Two years ago I sent mine out for testing and they said exactly that. It was way to heavy in organic manner and get some "soil" mixed in even though I was using raised beds. But as I told them...try finding "real" top soil anymore. My buddy had some top soil off his farm land that he did mix in and he did do better with it then just the plain mix like I was using.

bradjo wrote:I can tell you from experience that "Mel's Mix" needs some real dirt.  It actually has TOO MUCH organic matter. Take some pure Mel's Mix to your local Extension Service and get a soil test and see what the results are.   1/3 to 1/2 by volume of your own dirt and Mel's Mix will  be much more productive.

Bradjo and Cloudy,

Mel's Mix works.  1/3 coarse vermiculite, 1/3 fluffed peat moss, and 1/3 blended composts.  Dirt or top soil is not used with the SFG method.  In less developed nations, pure compost is used.

sanderson wrote:

bradjo wrote:I can tell you from experience that "Mel's Mix" needs some real dirt.  It actually has TOO MUCH organic matter. Take some pure Mel's Mix to your local Extension Service and get a soil test and see what the results are.   1/3 to 1/2 by volume of your own dirt and Mel's Mix will  be much more productive.

Bradjo and Cloudy,

Mel's Mix works.  1/3 coarse vermiculite, 1/3 fluffed peat moss, and 1/3 blended composts.  Dirt or top soil is not used with the SFG method.  In less developed nations, pure compost is used.

Hi Sanderson.....sorry I couldnt log in for some reason to reply to this. Not saying Mels mix doesnt work...I have a a 15x20ft of raised beds using it exactly how he has in his first book. But two very rep soil testing labs said its way to organic and get real soil mixed in. Also saying it works doesnt mean it works the best. This year I experimented in 5G pails with both and the got better results with one than the other. Also I get a mag that is usually read only by prof farmers....and they talk about this exact subject for their fields saying what Bradjo was saying. Next year I'm going to take 2 of the raised beds and run an experiment and see how it goes. Will be fun. 

I can understand why a soil lab would say too much organic matter in that for soil; 45% is geology, 5% is soil organic matter and 50% space that is taken by air and water. Unless you have soil that is giving 110%, there are limits. Never confuse soil organic matter and organic matter because they are for the most part two different things. Organic matter is food for the microbes, soil organic matter is completely decomposed and almost void of any food for microbes. That is why it takes years to build soil organic matter in soil and you can add up to 20% or more of compost in a mix. As Ohio Gardener has stated have your Mel's Mix tested as a soilless mix for best results. In my opinion a soilless mix can never become soil because it lacks the geology but a soilless mix such as Mel's Mix can be a great media for growing. It just needs the functionality which it does. Creates an environment that plants can anchor to, holds nutrients with a very good CEC, creates spacing for both air and water and at the same time has great water retention while at the same time you have good drainage. I don't know what more you could ask of a growing media. The reason I like Square Foot Gardening is that for beginning and intermediate gardeners it makes gardening almost foolproof and almost guarantees a successful gardening season. I also think Mel's Mix gives you a healthy start as you know your media is free of or greatly reduced from insects and soil borne diseases.