OVER Fertilizing

**sfg4uKim** 7/1/2018, 5:02 am

Here's a gentle reminder . . . STOP OVER FERTILIZING YOUR VEGETABLES! I've seen too many posts in other places about people getting great green growth and no tomatoes.

For the love of all that is holy, STOP adding fertilizer until you know that you have a deficiency in something. Then, choose the RIGHT fertilizer. If you're soil is good in nitrogen, adding a fertilizer with too much nitrogen will result in lovely, green, bushy tomato plants without any tomatoes!

STOP OVER FERTILIZING YOUR VEGETABLES

**sanderson** 7/1/2018, 8:50 am

Amen. If multiple sources of compost (or home made) are used to make the Mel's Mix, and replenished each time one plants, fertilizer should not be needed.

MrBooker 7/1/2018, 12:48 pm

sfg4uKim wrote:Here's a gentle reminder . . . STOP OVER FERTILIZING YOUR VEGETABLES! I've seen too many posts in other places about people getting great green growth and no tomatoes.

For the love of all that is holy, STOP adding fertilizer until you know that you have a deficiency in something. Then, choose the RIGHT fertilizer. If you're soil is good in nitrogen, adding a fertilizer with too much nitrogen will result in lovely, green, bushy tomato plants without any tomatoes!

STOP OVER FERTILIZING YOUR VEGETABLES

Correct: Here's a good website:
http://grabngrowsoil.com/understanding-npk-fertilizers/

**Turan** 7/1/2018, 1:20 pm

"OVER" in this context is a very subtle amount dependent on many factors. It is dependent on, among many other things, what vegy is in that spot. Yes, to giving extra nitrogen to leafy greens if they seem to need it, even to tomatoes early in the season when you want them to grow. No, do not make a nitrogen rich compost mixture to grow tomatoes or potatoes in and expect other than lots of green growth and few fruits or tubers, but that would be perfect for chard or lettuce or kale.

Roseinarosecity 7/1/2018, 7:56 pm

Turan wrote:"OVER" in this context is a very subtle amount dependent on many factors. It is dependent on, among many other things, what vegy is in that spot. Yes, to giving extra nitrogen to leafy greens if they seem to need it, even to tomatoes early in the season when you want them to grow. No, do not make a nitrogen rich compost mixture to grow tomatoes or potatoes in and expect other than lots of green growth and few fruits or tubers, but that would be perfect for chard or lettuce or kale.

This is so true. This year, I sought help with my under performing corn over the past few years and discovered that side-dressing means fertilize the corn as it is growing every two weeks with an organic fertilizer until it starts to silk. I would have thought that it was over-fertilizing but corn is heavy feeder throughout its growing cycle.

JohnKelly 7/3/2018, 1:54 am

My lemon tree agrees with you!

**jimmy cee** 7/3/2018, 11:22 pm

Much more needs to be mentioned regarding fertilizers...what are fertilizers. assuming most folks would say 5..10..20...the figures most think of when doing fertilizers...
Here are the facts as I read them in Teaming with Microbes and Teaming with Nutrients.
Commercial fertilizers turn your garden into a lifeless piece of dirt. The destroy all living microbes in the soil food web.
Doing this makes your garden dependent on commercial fertilizers.
Fertilizers that do not trickle down past the rhizosphere ( plants root ends ) leach out into the ground, out into creeks, rivers, and ultimately the oceans.
Compost properly made is made up of gazillions of microbes that want to hang around your roots. When doing this they feed roots, aerate soil and make everything happy.It is the microbes that feed your plant roots. taking nutrients from growing medium and sending to roots.. You cannot add to much compost. adding more compost just adds more microbes and the more microbes the better it is for plants. I haven't used a fertilizer in my 4 years of SFG. .
Read these 2 books and your minds will be awed at info provided...

OVER Fertilizing Microb10

JohnKelly 7/3/2018, 11:43 pm

Jimmy, I tended to follow advice similar to that contained in the following videos,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aimiaZZqrQM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcrxX_mK994

**sanderson** 7/4/2018, 4:06 am

It's been 3 years since I fertilized my orange tree. I put compost. around it and covered with wood chips. When the leaves fall or I prune it, I just leave the stuff there. The microbes book changed my way of non-SFG gardening. Thanks Jimmy

SQWIB 7/4/2018, 9:07 am

Fertilizers don't destroy microbes my understanding of commercial fertilizers is that they do work but it's not sustainable long term.
There's a saying, "What's good for the Father's isn't good for the Sons"

Lets see if I can get this right... What happens is the microbe populations explode and less humus is left in the soil, this in turn makes the soil less capable of holding nitrogen and other nutrients that would otherwise be slowly released over time, this adds to the leaching problem.

With that said, I agree that using fertilizers can and will have a negative impact if not used correctly.. I do not use fertilizers other than in a few of my potted plants and water lilies, other than a nasty bit of milorganite I use in my flower beds to finish up the bag Shocked

JohnKelly 7/4/2018, 9:26 pm

I hear what you folks are saying, I know of a couple of fellow gardeners who have lemon trees, they just leave them unattended with grass and weeds growing around the base and they have a great crop of lemons; whereas I am fussing around mine like a mother hen with very little produce. Rolling Eyes

countrynaturals 7/4/2018, 9:59 pm

Years ago, I tried 2 things: 1, I planted a lawn from seed, and 2, I planted what I hoped would be a cash crop of loofahs. I didn't have any dirt, so I used straight horse manure. I had the most beautiful, huge, leafy loofah plants, but no loofahs, and the lawn just failed. Now I know better, but those were a couple of hard lessons to learn. At least my "fertilizer" was free. Rolling Eyes

**Scorpio Rising** 7/4/2018, 10:07 pm

I will be honest...I am a little concerned about my pole beans..Blauhilde from Bakers, has been a great producer for 2 years...Plants are up and growing on the trellis. No blooms...not one. No blooms.

Cukes next door just getting started. I did side dress with blood and bone meal. I pretty much always do!

**jimmy cee** 7/4/2018, 10:13 pm

sanderson wrote:It's been 3 years since I fertilized my orange tree. I put compost. around it and covered with wood chips. When the leaves fall or I prune it, I just leave the stuff there. The microbes book changed my way of non-SFG gardening. Thanks Jimmy

An interesting man was Justis Von Liebig of Germany, 1800s....he is considered the father of modern day agriculture, his law of the return is very interesting. It states that any plant left along will supply nutrients to itself to carry on. Consider how our forests thrive. This is exactly what happens out there in the woods.

**Scorpio Rising** 7/4/2018, 10:17 pm

jimmy cee wrote:
sanderson wrote:It's been 3 years since I fertilized my orange tree. I put compost. around it and covered with wood chips. When the leaves fall or I prune it, I just leave the stuff there. The microbes book changed my way of non-SFG gardening. Thanks Jimmy
An interesting man was Justis Von Liebig of Germany, 1800s....he is considered the father of modern day agriculture, his law of the return is very interesting. It states that any plant left along will supply nutrients to itself to carry on. Consider how our forests thrive. This is exactly what happens out there in the woods.

SQWIB 7/4/2018, 11:18 pm

For all of the above things mentioned, that is why I have adopted the "put back more than you take out".
I let weeds grow, I let everything grow then I pull or cut back and PLACE BACK IN THE GARDEN
nothing is removed!
I have a 5' prickly lettuce weed growing In one bed that my brother said, "why haven't you pulled that"
. I told him it wasn't done doing its job... Once it goes to seed, I will cut it back and lay it where it's been cut.
I'm sure this thing has a 14-18" tap root by now and is pulling up all kindsa goodies from the soil

suseine 7/5/2018, 10:54 am

I agree that over-fertilizing will tell the tomato plant to produce more leaves instead of blossoms and tomato fruits.

kygardener 7/9/2018, 5:44 am

I have seen fish emulsion, garden-tone, tomato -tone, and blood & bone meal suggested by posters here. Do these also do damage to the microbes or are they different than the fertilizers referred to in this post?

SQWIB 7/9/2018, 9:48 am

kygardener wrote:I have seen fish emulsion, garden-tone, tomato -tone, and blood & bone meal suggested by posters here. Do these also do damage to the microbes or are they different than the fertilizers referred to in this post?

No, used correctly they do not harm the soil food web, however, over used they MAY destroy/harm the soil biodiversity.

I dont want to take this out of context but the following is from an article pertaining to Synthetic Fertilizers.

"Fertilizer application begins the destruction of soil biodiversity by diminishing the role of nitrogen-fixing bacteria and amplifying the role of everything that feeds on nitrogen. These feeders then speed up the decomposition of organic matter and humus. As organic matter decreases, the physical structure of soil changes. With less pore space and less of their sponge-like qualities, soils are less efficient at storing water and air. More irrigation is needed. Water leeches through soils, draining away nutrients that no longer have an effective substrate on which to cling. With less available oxygen the growth of soil microbiology slows, and the intricate ecosystem of biological exchanges breaks down".

I would think that over fertilizing even with an organic fertilizer would contribute to the same problem as above? I'm not sure, but that is why I do not fertilize anything but my potted plants and pond plants and on rare occasion some of my flowers.

Synthetic vs. Organic Fertilizers
by Jerry Gach

Organic Fertilizers are materials derived from plant and animal parts or residues. Examples are, Blood Meal, Compost, Bat Guano, Manure, Seaweed, and Worm Castings.

Synthetic Fertilizers are “Man made” inorganic compounds - usually derived from by-products of the petroleum industry. Examples are Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate, Superphosphate, and Potassium Sulfate.

More on that here.
Synthetic vs. Organic Fertilizers

I know this info was more than you asked for but figured it may be helpful to others.

**Turan** 7/9/2018, 2:48 pm

Thanks SQWIB, I found your post very informative.
I followed it up by doing a google search asking about Miracle grow in compost piles. I was surprised to find anecdotal reports of using it and other synthetic high N fertilizers in compost piles with too much browns. Anecdotally those piles then rapidly heat up, which means the microbiome is happy and thriving. There are also warnings that too much will hurt because of the high salt content, but dilute amounts doesn't hurt worms. All of which supports the idea of the biome becoming nitrogen eating heavy versus nitrogen storing heavy. And that is a dynamic I have not thought about in a hot compost pile.

We are digressing from Kay's original post which was not worrying about soil health, just about plant fruit production being depressed while leave and stalk growth is promoted in an high nitrogen environment. But this is an important tangent to look at.

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