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2017: First full year of SFGing in ND

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Post  trolleydriver on 6/24/2017, 4:28 pm

@BeetlesPerSqFt wrote:Wow! What a difference, it looks great! 2017: First full year of SFGing in ND - Page 5 3170584802
+1
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Post  yolos on 6/24/2017, 4:35 pm

Yes it does look so much better.  You did a good job.  Now you have to keep it weeded because seeds will blow in all the time and some weeds will regrow from the roots left behind.  A little every time you come out to the garden will do the trick.
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Post  Robbomb116 on 6/24/2017, 5:05 pm

Yup, gotta keep up with the weeds. Since my garden is in my front yard, I have to make sure to keep it today. Don't want the neighbors to think it's an eyesore.
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Post  Robbomb116 on 6/24/2017, 8:10 pm

Tried the lettuce today... it's super bitter. I'm guessing our early heat wave (90s 2 weeks before the last frost date) really messed it up. Oh well. Out and into the compost pile.
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Post  countrynaturals on 6/24/2017, 10:15 pm

@Robbomb116 wrote:Tried the lettuce today... it's super bitter.  I'm guessing our early heat wave (90s 2 weeks before the last frost date) really messed it up.  Oh well.  Out and into the compost pile.
I brought mine inside where it slowly died. Compost for mine, too. Sad
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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/2/2017, 2:09 pm

Going to take out my peas today I think.  They are still setting blossoms but the pods are getting fat while quite small. Just trying to think of the best way to so it.  I currently have some small cucumber plants growing behind them and am worried about disturbing the cukes roots if I try to take out the pea roots.  Should I just cut the pea plants and leave their roots?2017: First full year of SFGing in ND - Page 5 20170710
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Post  Turan on 7/2/2017, 2:22 pm

Yes, just cut the peas off. The roots have the nitrogen fixing nodules on them, you want those to stay in the soil and the nitrogen can then feed the cukes.

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Post  trolleydriver on 7/2/2017, 2:34 pm

@Turan wrote:Yes, just cut the peas off.  The roots have the nitrogen fixing nodules on them, you want those to stay in the soil and the nitrogen can then feed the cukes.
Thanks Turan.  I have the same situation as Rob. I thought of cutting of the pea stems just below the surface of the MM so as not to disturb the cuke roots. You have confirmed that for me.
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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/2/2017, 2:55 pm

Thanks for the advice! I think I'll snip them, but possibly just thin them out today. The forecast is 95 plus next week, and I figure some shade wouldn't be bad for the young cukes. They were direct sowed there, so should be pretty tough, but still, they've had shade from the peas all their life so it seems rough to take all the shade away at once right when it gets hot!
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Post  countrynaturals on 7/2/2017, 3:56 pm

@Turan wrote:Yes, just cut the peas off.  The roots have the nitrogen fixing nodules on them, you want those to stay in the soil and the nitrogen can then feed the cukes.
Well, Duh! I pulled all mine out, defeating the whole purpose of feeding the soil. Embarassed thanks From now on I'll cut them off. Thanks, Turan.
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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/2/2017, 4:25 pm

I was under the impression the nodules needed a living root to actually keep the sybiosis going. I know mychorizal fungi need to root to be alive, guess I don't know about legume nodules and their bacteria that they form the relationship with.

In side news, I apparantly can't stick to a plan and instead of thinning out the peas, I took them all out... So the cukes will have to suck it up. The peas were so tangled together I couldn't just take some out without damaging the others so I just went at it... but why couldn't I leave some for shade even if they were damaged I have no explanation.
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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/2/2017, 6:32 pm

Many pics from the garden, just have time to upload them but no time for captions at the moment. Any questions ask away! Also one pic of my little helper, my daughter! Sorry if they a sideways.. my phone updated and i have to figure out how to fix that again...

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Post  Turan on 7/2/2017, 7:26 pm

What an adorable helper you have! And I am in eggplant envy.

I am not really sure if it truly is best to leave the roots of a legume in the soil to trap as much nitrogen as possible or not. I was told so, it makes sense to me, but is it an old tale?
REading a little, it appears, as always, to depend on many variables, of prime importance being the bacterium in the soil.

Almost all of the fixed nitrogen goes directly into the plant. However, some nitrogen can be “leaked” or “transferred” into the soil (30–50 lb N/acre) for neighboring non-legume plants (Walley et al., 1996). Most of the nitrogen eventually returns to the soil for neighboring plants when vegetation (roots, leaves, fruits) of the legume dies and decomposes. wrote:
http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_a/A129/

If you read further though it talks about how most of the nitrogen fixing stops when making pods. The max fertilizing to use legumes is as a green manure cut before seed making starts, is my conclusion. But I still figure there is not reason to take the roots out, and possibly some good.


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Post  BeetlesPerSqFt on 7/2/2017, 7:52 pm

@Turan wrote:If you read further though it talks about how most of the nitrogen fixing stops when making pods.  The max fertilizing to use legumes is as a green manure cut before seed making starts, is my conclusion.  But I still figure there is not reason to take the roots out, and possibly some good. 
^This is what my understanding is, too.

Wikipedia says "Once the legume dies, the nodule breaks down and releases the rhizobia back into the soil where they can live individually or reinfect a new legume host.", but also explains that the bacteria only fix nitrogen when they are partnered with a living plant. So leaving the roots behind helps leave more of the bacteria behind so that they will be around when you next plant a new legume. The roots have a little nitrogen left in them, but the nodules won't keep making more after the plant is dead.
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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/3/2017, 9:24 am

To me it means the pea vines will make a great addition to the compost pile!
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Post  trolleydriver on 7/3/2017, 9:26 am

@Robbomb116 wrote:To me it means the pea vines will make a great addition to the compost pile!
Yup ... that's where mine will find their end.
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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/3/2017, 11:48 am

So apparently with the photos turning sideways... iy seems the ones that end up turned are the one I take with my phone upright, like "portrait" style. Photos taken "kandscape" are not turned. I would have if anything expected the opposite to be the problem.

But yes, my little helper is darn cute. She would play in that box with a toy trowel before I planted the zucchini there. Now she has claimed it has her plant and wants to water it every time we are outside. So that one should never be very thirsty.
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Post  sanderson on 7/4/2017, 2:49 am

Rob,  I'm amazed how pretty northern gardens looks.  Green North Dakota. I see you have joined the Bridal Tulle group.

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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/4/2017, 4:03 am

It usually is pretty green during the summer than everything turns brown in late August. This year this are more brown in the country than usual. Ite drought has officially gotten bad enough that it had been declared a natural disaster in a few counties (mine included).

I've actually been a member of the bridal tulle group all year. I usually just lift it for pictures but got lazy =P I am however greatly considering Jimmy's fabric from joanne's. The tulle is so delicate and easy to tear. Also I think I need to shorten my hoops so the tulle covers it better. Have to clip it to the box currently, which leads to tearing.
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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/5/2017, 6:57 pm

Garden survived a mild hail storm yesterday. Minimal damage. Like one Patty pan leaf. The majority of the hail was small enough the bridal tulle actually protected the study under it, without the tulle ripping!

Now the garden is baking. Got up to 102 F today.
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Post  Scorpio Rising on 7/5/2017, 7:25 pm

Garden looking really good, Rob!
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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/6/2017, 10:08 am

Thanks SR! There are a few things I'm still wondering / worried about, but for the most part I'm pretty proud of how th8ngsare going! My mouth is still watering from a week or two ago when I got my first bite of a baby carrot that made it even with the tomatoes being transplanted with in its square. There are a few such carrots still around the tomatoes.

I'm a little worried about my beans. They germinated in no time, but then didn't grow any true leaves or vine for until about a month or longer after that? They are turning yellow, except for the new growth that happened shortly after trying some fish fertilizer. I used an innoculum so I figured there's no way they were nitrogen starved, but after that burst of growth I think they might be somehow. Thinking a dash of blood meal might do them good afterall.
A. Photos of the beans
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B. Neglected compost. Hasn't been turned that often, still with just the amount of time it's been sitting in wondering if I screened it if it would be usable?
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Post  sanderson on 7/7/2017, 12:37 am

I don't have any advice about the beans. I'm sorry you are having problems. As far as the compost, how old is it? Has it been kept moist? If those are wood chips, I would screen it. I personally would use it as top dressing.

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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/7/2017, 7:39 am

The compost is from last fall. And there was some. Some twigs add part of the mix. Also some additional twigs and sticks seem to land on it from the trees around it when it gets windy. It has not be kept particularly moist, but it has never been bone dry except for the top layer.
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Post  Robbomb116 on 7/9/2017, 9:30 pm

The fairytale eggplant is rocking right now. I counted a total of 9 set fruit. These are the 3 biggest. I know they aren't supposed to get very big so these might be close to ready
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