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Microbes...you gotta see this one !!!

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Post  sanderson on 12/13/2016, 12:29 pm

Pacific Northwest (Region)

I wish I knew how to insert the actual video.

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Post  has55 on 12/13/2016, 12:45 pm

You can't insert the video from that website. I selected the youtube button in the lower right-handed corner of the video, which sent me to the youtube website to watched the video. Then I selected the share button which causes a drop down menu  showing a code. I copy it, then return to out the SFG website, choose the above youtube icon, paste in the code and select return or enter on your keyboard. The SFG website will automatically do the rest of the insertion process.
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Post  Zmoore on 2/15/2017, 2:20 pm

Not sure if this is new or not:
Teaming with Fungi: The Organic Grower's Guide to Mycorrhizae (Science for Gardeners) by Jeff Lowenfels


I know Jimmy Cree is a big fan of the teaming with Nutrients and Microbes.  I even bought those and read them based on his recommendation.  I don't recall this one being mentioned before.  I just got an e-mail from Amazon advertising this book.  I'll probably get it myself here soon, just thought I'd share that it was out there.
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Post  has55 on 2/15/2017, 10:43 pm

thank you. looks good.
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Post  jimmy cee on 2/16/2017, 9:15 pm

@Zmoore wrote:Not sure if this is new or not:
Teaming with Fungi: The Organic Grower's Guide to Mycorrhizae (Science for Gardeners) by Jeff Lowenfels


I know Jimmy Cree is a big fan of the teaming with Nutrients and Microbes.  I even bought those and read them based on his recommendation.  I don't recall this one being mentioned before.  I just got an e-mail from Amazon advertising this book.  I'll probably get it myself here soon, just thought I'd share that it was out there.

Just hit the shelves in Jan 2017
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Post  sanderson on 2/17/2017, 1:05 am

Jimmy, Have you read it?

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Post  jimmy cee on 2/19/2017, 8:20 pm

@sanderson wrote:Jimmy,  Have you read it?
Sorry about dealy for this as I've been away and that i phone just cant hack it the way my computer can, ( or maybe it's me)
Yes for reading Teaming with Fungi....There are some detailed parts that are very boring, I read through them anyway and only a scientific mind could pick it up, in my opinion.
However I am now coming into the nitty gritty of the book.. And is it ever interestin, same as the other 2 books Jeff has written..It seems fungi has been around since time began, and plants cannot survive with out some kind of it.
I definitely recommend all three books for anyone who enjoys gardening, plant life or tree life..
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Post  CapeCoddess on 3/12/2017, 11:15 am

I'm reading Teaming with Microbes for the second time. It's amazing what you can pick up on a second reading that was glossed over during the first. Like that slugs can travel up to a mile during the night. Gross!  Anyway I was wondering if anyone following this book is leaving the inch of compost on top  of the SFG rather than mixing it in? It seems to be what is suggested by the book.
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Post  sanderson on 3/12/2017, 6:16 pm

Thought about leaving it on the top. Then decided to turn it over here and there. If I don't turn somewhat, eventually the vermiculite and peat moss will just be in the lower stratum. ??

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Post  CapeCoddess on 3/12/2017, 7:25 pm

@sanderson wrote:Thought about leaving it on the top.  Then decided to turn it over here and there.  If I don't turn somewhat, eventually the vermiculite and peat moss will just be in the lower stratum.  ??

That's exactly what I was wondering about. I can't quite figure out what to do. It's almost like the two methods don't fit together.
thinking
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Post  sanderson on 3/13/2017, 3:32 am

Well, what would Mel do? The main thing is adding quality compost. Jimmy is top dressing and Camp mixes it in by the wheel barrow. Both have great crops. Mel got it right with his Mel's Mix and I don't even know if he thought of the role of microbes and nutrients. Light, fluffy and rich.

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Post  has55 on 3/13/2017, 4:37 am

I have put 3 inches of compost on top. The earthworm and microbes devour it by bring it down into the soil and mix it for you. literally you'll see the compost disappear while you have the ground cover from sunlight. weed protection, temperature control and free mixing of fertilizer by microbes and worms while keeping the soil web undisturbed, building it underground cities.
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Post  No_Such_Reality on 10/30/2017, 3:29 pm

Saw a recent 'free' 'webinar' from Dr. Inghram's company of which the teaming books are based which reminded me.  I haven't read the books yet. But also a question about the research in sustainable farming and no-till methods and the soil web.

Along those line do any of the three books discuss the pro/cons of our habit of uprooting our spent plants?  In the SFG, it's common to pull the plant, roots and all, replace with some compost and replant.

Should we be pulling the roots or just cutting off at soil level and planting near?
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Post  countrynaturals on 10/30/2017, 4:28 pm

@No_Such_Reality wrote:Should we be pulling the roots or just cutting off at soil level and planting near?
Oooh, good question. I'd like to know the answer to this one, too. bounce
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Post  BeetlesPerSqFt on 10/30/2017, 4:46 pm

I pull nightshades because the tomatoes are usually infected by something by season's end. And I'll pull plants I know or suspect have root borers (cukes, squash; brassicas with symptoms of borer infection.) And of course I pull (or gently dig) root vegetables. But I tend to cut or break the rest to try to avoid disturbing the likely inter-meshed roots of plants in adjacent squares.

I'm not sure it's even possible for me to pull out one of the big collards while they're alive!
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Post  sanderson on 10/31/2017, 4:06 am

NSR,  My take away from the first book, Teaming with Microbes, is that for those that do SFG per the book*, pull out the plants.  Once a plant is cut off, those plant roots die, anyway.  I pull out everything except maybe small lettuces.  I couldn't plant a winter crop if I didn't get the root ball and main root(s) out.  Microbes...you gotta see this one !!! - Page 8 1280598131   Also, I get to look at the roots for health.  Annuals (veggies) are primarily bacterial.  Perennials, including trees and bushes are primarily fungal and the soil should not be overly disturbed.

*initially Mel's Mix, periodic addition of quality compost, plant spacing and grids, etc.

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Post  countrynaturals on 10/31/2017, 11:31 am

I chop off legumes. One of those seminars I love so much, said that the nitrogen-fixing properties only work as long as the roots are still in the ground. I'm also thinking that except for tomatoes, everything else could be cut off if we're putting the bed to bed for winter or leaving it fallow for any other reason. We can always pull up what's left if necessary when it's time to plant again. geek
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Post  has55 on 10/31/2017, 3:11 pm

I cut plants at ground level, esp the greens. Then plant right next to it if I'm seeding directly. this provides nutrients and more tunnels for the roots to move deeper than before.plus the nutrients are on the walls of the tunnels. transplants need the space, so the plant is pulled to make room. if the plant is sick, disease, collpase suddenly it's pulled.
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Post  has55 on 11/25/2017, 11:39 pm

I want to thank Jimmie cee for introducing the book Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the soil food web by Jeff Lowenfels. Wayne Lewis and the knowledge he obtained from Dr. Ingham. Been a great journey and a paradigm shift in my understanding how to get the best vegetables from our growing media whether it's compost or soil.
The soil food web team and the soil learning center has been putting up short videos of Dr. Ingham for the gardener, homeowner who has a lawn, trees and of course our food suppliers, the farmer that goes into the visual imagery of what's in the Teaming with Microbes book. 


Here is a short video snippet from one of her videos. A profound statement, that Jeff discussed in the book after he saw a picture of root eating nematode trap by a fungal hypha on page 12. He had been using miracle grow for decades and said it didn't do anything to the soil.
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Post  No_Such_Reality on 11/27/2017, 12:46 pm

Finally read Teaming with Microbes courtesy of Hoopla and the Library.

Maybe I'm missing something, but basically, they're doing Back to Eden. All the other stuff and the teas just seems like a method to rush BTE and 19 rules to make it more complex.

A lot of good information on bacteria support and fungal support in different methods, but I wonder how much of the benefit is just BTE and how much comes from all the extra tweaking of the rules or guidelines.

Seems a bit of irony that it comes off as 'instant fix' of BTE method when highlighting that the 'instant fix' of chemical fertilizers and pesticides causes the problems.
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Post  sanderson on 11/27/2017, 1:25 pm

NSR, My take on the book is that there are a lot of critters living in the soil, doing the heavy lifting of feeding plants. The book was focused on educating the reader to treat the dirt/soil as a living creature.

If someone uses BTE, they are treating the "row" garden correctly, providing housing and nutrients for the organisms. If they use fertilizer, they are harming the critters. (Organic fertilizers such as blood meal, feather meal and bone meal are okay as they break down slowly) BTE is also a no till method, leaving the underground infrastructure intact.

How does TWM relate to SFG? We use 1/3 compost, adding more at each planting, which feeds the organisms. Regular row garden dirt has no where near our 33% content of organic (once living) material. Also, most of our crops are annuals, more bacterial. Perennials and trees/shrubs are more fungal and the soil is not, or should not, be disturbed. In other words, we SFG gardeners do not have to worry about our Mix. It was designed as friendly to microbes, as long as regular fertilizer is not used. Adding properly made compost tea to MM just adds more microbes.

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Post  trolleydriver on 11/27/2017, 1:28 pm

I was just about to post the following but Sanderson jumped in ahead of me.

-------------------------

And then there is All New SFG which is the real focus of this forum.  I expect that every time I stir in some compost I mess up the microbes and fungi in the "MM web" if there is such a thing.
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Post  has55 on 11/27/2017, 2:04 pm

well, actually you're both right about the compost. the book allows us to see into the world of how the microbes work in getting the food to the plants whether it the compost or following the break down of BTE and how these critters also stop disease-causing organism and insect. we always had a general knowledge that it works, but the book allows us to see in their world to assist us with our gardening. now it new information is coming which I would be compared to a 4k TV or smart phones or homes. we know they work but the nerdy wants to know the intricate part of how it comes together for the full usage of that tool. another way the see the development of understanding the soil food web is like discovering the world is round when everyone believes it was flat. Think about it, 40 years ago Elaine started her research and no one knew how the critters work. The study was not encouraged I wonder by who. The internet is getting the old and the new developing info about those critters that work in our garden and it exciting.
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Post  sanderson on 11/27/2017, 3:04 pm

In parallel, Mel started OSFG 40 years ago. I'm not sure if he ever worked with the microbiologists but he got it right.

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Post  has55 on 11/27/2017, 4:43 pm

You’re so right it may been hidden in the engineer degree   You got it right
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