The Great Challenge - Your Fears Pressure-Can-Along

johnp wrote:I think she knew all along that I was going to use her equipment. I think she knew how low her bottle was and now I get to refill it for her. Off to the propane store this afternoon and will try again tomorrow. If I was a car thief I would probably steal the one car with no gas in it.

Again,

boffer wrote:

Working up the nerve to try it and sneaking the wife's stove must have distracted you from the basic essentials.

Reminds me of the weeks long chaotic preparation for our family car vacation, then running out of gas 10 miles from home as we started out on our trip. My dad never lived that one down!

 Sounds a bit like that film called " The Lampoons annual vacation " 

got the propane

This is the stove. It is pretty cool and has a 6" tall wrap around for three sides to help with the wind. I am going to have to use it on low however, my cooker says not to use a burner larger than 12,500 BTU"s and this stove has each burner rated at 64,000BTU"s. Don't want to melt the cooker

John, best of luck!

I took my canner lid to town this morning to take advantage of the free gauge testing service that was being offered by a popular general store.  The testing was being done by a Master Preservation Instructor who was certified by WSU.

(Yes, the store's marketing plan worked as intended.  I went in for the free service, and ended up spending money on things I didn't know I needed!)  

She cited the U of Georgia as  having some of the most up to date, scientifically tested, safe canning recipes.  What they have found is that over the last few decades, bacteria have gotten 'stronger' while our immune systems have gotten weaker.  Because of this, they are  recommending that instructions that call for 10psi should now be done at 11psi.

Like, AtlantaMarie, I've found that a gauge takes a lot of babysitting.  It seems to me that a rattler would require less attention, and I asked her about replacing my gauge with a rattler.  She strongly advised against it.

Because she has so much public contact, she has met or heard of people who have gotten botulism from canned goods.  What she has found so far, is that all the people who got sick did so from using uncertified recipes that were found on the internet.

She said technically speaking, if canning pressure should drop to 9 psi or less, at any time during the process, then the process should be started over.  I thought better of asking her if she did that, because under the circumstances, she would have to maintain the party line.

I asked about pressures in the 13-15 psi range, because I'm guilty of allowing that to happen.  That's a bad idea, she said, because it causes loss of liquid in the jars, and is what leads to jars cracking.  I've lost liquid before, but have only lost 2 jars in 3 years.

She reminded me that initially venting the canner for 10 minutes per the instructions is an important part of the process.  Begin counting 10 minutes when steam starts in full earnest.  Allowing the canner to depressurize by cooling down on it's own is also part of the safety process.  She also recommended that once the canner has depressurized, and the lid has been removed, to let the jars sit for another 5 minutes.  All these steps ensure that the heat has reached the interior of the food in order to kill bacteria.

I mentioned the fears some of us have had about canning, and asked for suggestions.  She said that far and beyond, she hears those comments more than any other.  Her advice: follow the instructions.

JohnP, I asked about your comment regarding the manufacturer's recommendation to use a heat source that's 12,500 BTU's or less.  The recommendation seems odd to me because many of the large pots sold for turkey deep frying are pretty cheaply made and thin, but come with a hot burner in the 50,000 BTU range.  The canners that I have seen are all heavier material than the turkey pots.  (Maybe there are thinner canners; I don't know)  She had not heard of heat source limitations for canners before.  The only idea she had was maybe the hot burners didn't have a way to regulate the heat properly.  Her thinking was that although hot burners definitely get the canner up to operating pressure faster, once the desired pressure is reached, it doesn't take much heat to maintain pressure, and at that point the hot burners have no advantage over cooler burners.

My inherited canner is old, and the gauge was off over 2 psi,  so I bought a new one.

These suggestions are for your consideration.  I'm not an expert, only the messenger!

boffer wrote:
Like, AtlantaMarie, I've found that a gauge takes a lot of babysitting.  It seems to me that a rattler would require less attention, and I asked her about replacing my gauge with a rattler.  She strongly advised against it.

That's strange because I have been following a forum online that does a lot of canning.  The advice of the Master Canners was to always replace the gauge with a rattler.  You have to test the gauge each year to be safe but never need to test the rattler (I think it is called something other than a rattler, but I can't think of the proper term now).

Interesting!

I've heard them called jiggle weights or jigglers.

I was disappointed she advised against them. Her reason was that they don't currently make an 11psi jiggler.

boffer wrote:Interesting!  

I've heard them called jiggle weights or jigglers.

I was disappointed she advised against them.  Her reason was that they don't currently make an 11psi jiggler.

Okay, that makes sense if she says to increase from 10 psi to 11 psi.

Here is a sample of the NCHFP instructions for canning soups.  With a dial gauge pressure canner you use 11 psi but with a weighted gauge pressure canner you use 10 psi I guess because all the gauges are 10 or 15 PSI.  At the bottom of the instructions they say this was reviewed July 2015 so the NCHFP still is recommending the following as of this date.
http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_04/soups.html

Soups

Vegetable, dried bean or pea, meat, poultry, or seafood soups can be canned. These directions are intended for use with ingredients that already have separate canning recommendations for those foods.
Caution: Do not add noodles or other pasta, rice, flour, cream, milk or other thickening agents to home canned soups. If dried beans or peas are used, they must be fully rehydrated first.
Please read Using Pressure Canners before beginning. If this is your first time canning, it is recommended that you read [url=http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/usda/GUIDE 1 Home Can.pdf]Principles of Home Canning[/url].
Procedure: Select, wash, and prepare vegetables, meat and seafoods as described for the specific foods in their own canning instructions. Cover meat with water and cook until tender. Cool meat and remove bones. Cook vegetables as described for a hot pack. For each cup of dried beans or peas, add 3 cups of water, boil 2 minutes, remove from heat, soak 1 hour, and heat to boil; drain.
Combine solid ingredients with meat broth, tomatoes, or water to cover. Boil 5 minutes.
Caution: Do not thicken. Salt to taste, if desired. Fill jars halfway with solid mixture. Add remaining liquid, leaving 1-inch headspace.
Adjust lids and process following the recommendations in Table 1 or Table 2 according to the method of canning used.

Table 1. Recommended process time for Soups in a dial-gauge pressure canner.
			Canner Pressure (PSI) at Altitudes
Style of Pack	Jar Size	Process Time	0 - 2,000 ft	2,001 - 4,000 ft	4,001 - 6,000 ft	6,001 - 8,000 ft
Hot	Pints	60* min	11 lb	12 lb	13 lb	14 lb
	Quarts	75*	11	12	13	14
* Caution: Process 100 minutes if soup contains seafoods.

Table 2. Recommended process time for Soups in a weighted-gauge pressure canner
			Canner Pressure (PSI) at Altitudes of
Style of Pack	Jar Size	Process Time	0 - 1,000 ft	Above 1,000 ft
Hot	Pints	60* min	10 lb	15 lb
	Quarts	75*	10	15
* Caution: Process 100 minutes if soup contains seafoods.

Related Page: Canning Homemade Soups

---

This document was adapted from the "Complete Guide to Home Canning," Agriculture Information Bulletin No. 539, USDA, revised 2009.

Reviewed July 2015.

Disclaimer - I have never canned so I don't know beans about this except what I have read on the internet in preparation for some day actually doing some canning.

Boffer, thanks for posting what you heard today, especially about the 10 psi increase.  Very important!  I use 15 psi all the time and have yet to crack.  I did however have one jar overflow the first time I canned, which was in 2012, but I was only canning beans so it wasn't too messy.  I learned that filling with liquid up to an inch from the top of the jar doesn't mean 3/4 or 1/2 inch.

Congrats on your new canner!  What kind is it?  

Yolos, I canned split pea soup with ham last year and couldn't believe it had to cook so long!  I think it was at least 1 hr or more.  But I ate that pea soup up until last month.  So worth it!
CC

CapeCoddess wrote:...Congrats on your new canner!...

It looks like you're addressing me.  I didn't get a new canner; just got a new gauge for a very old All-American.

Yolos, so we have two experts with differing advice; it seems that that happens often with food and gardening!

I was looking around, and it seems they're both right.  Towards the bottom of this page are charts for recommended pressures and times.  11 psi is recommended for gauges; 10 psi is recommended for rattlers; both get the same amount of time.  Go figure!
(I saw identical recommendations on several other sites.)

I also learned that raising the pressure from 10 to 11 psi raises the temperature from 240° to 242°.  A two degree difference doesn't seem like much.

I'm now returning to my default comfort zone:  if something works well, just do it!  

Interesting about the rattler vs. gauge...  I didn't even know you COULD sub a rattler on a gauge! 

The lady Boffer spoke with is correct about UGA being the most up-to-date source of info.  The National Center for Home Food Preservation is based at UGA.  That's who I use for the majority of the information I teach in my classes.  They also have the USDA canning books available for free download.

I am not surprised at the news of needing to go to 11 psi vs. 10.  Only the strongest bugs survive and pass on.  Add that to the decreased nutrition in our foods...  (I usually go w/ 11 or 12 anyway, just to be safe.)

Thought y'all might want to take a look at this:

http://www.simplycanning.com/pressure-canners.html?utm_content=buffer3260c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

That chicken and barley soup sounds soooo good.

Well, my goal was to find my single electric burner and much to my elation, I spied it's box waaaaay up on the top shelf of the highest cupboard in my kitchen.  I got the step-stool and pulled the box out, but something wasn't quite right; the box was too light.  I opened it, and...no burner!  Just an empty box. 

Sometime somehow I must have pulled it out to use and never put it back. I have a vague recollection now of having either sold it in a yard sale or given it away to someone. 

There went my attempt for this weekend.

Now I need a Plan C: I'm going to ask around at work to see if anyone has one of those single-burner propane things they're willing to lend me.  I really don't want to shell out the bucks to buy one, though I'm probably going to have to at some point being as I don't want to use the ceramic cooktop.

Booo!

It's sounds like you dislike spending money on new activities as much as I do.  If I try something new and like it, fine, I'll spend the money for the proper gear.  If not, I don't want a garage full of stuff that I only used once or twice.

Plan D: The side burner on your grill can be supported to hold the weight.  The side that is attached is not a problem.  The cantilevered weight on the unsupported outboard side is the issue.  

If you put a 2x4 cut to length under the unsupported corners (like table legs), then secured them so they didn't accidentally fall, the shelf would hold the weight with no problem.   A screw or two through the sheet metal into the 2x would keep the top from slipping out.  Or, depending on how your grill is made, you might be able to use a clamp that will tighten and stay tight ie C clamp, quik clamp, or vise grips.

Another way would be to stack cinder blocks under the outboard end.


Here's my cheap grill with one unsecured 2x4 holding 66 pounds.  The weight is not a problem.

boffer wrote: (snip)
Plan D: The side burner on your grill can be supported to hold the weight...

Oh, Boffer, that's brilliant!   Will you marry me?!!    

Grills are different. Hopefully the idea works for yours.

Worked for my son and kept the hot pepper fumes out of the house and the kid's lungs.

Kay

Ok, so thanks to Boffer, I have a working plan:



I remembered that I had some leftover metal studs from a construction project so I took the necessary measurements, got my tin snips, made a few cuts so that I could bend the studs at a right angle, then took my drill and made a hole in line with an existing hole in the grill's side burner support shelf, added a nut & bolt  for good measure and voila, it's done!

I may not do any more tonight  as the 'skeeters are out in force, but tomorrow--tomorrow is the day!!!

Oh this is very exciting! Nicely done, Molly! What are you going to can tomorrow?

Now let me get a reminder here...you folks are doing this outside why? Because of the heat?

CC

I can't speak for the others, but for me it's because I have a ceramic cooktop and the bottom of the pressure canner extends past the edge of the heating element which may cause my thermostat to get fried.

There may be some added benefits like not heating up the house and avoiding noxious fumes as Kay pointed out.

I'm just going to do a test run tomorrow (with water but no cans) but if it goes well, I have some carrots that are starting to get woody which I might use as my first "real" attempt.

So tonight, I'm focusing on reading the manual for the upteenth time. Wish me luck for tomorrow!

mollyhespra wrote:

 

You and my wife would have a ball together!  We joke that she didn't marry me for the things I could make for her, but rather the things I could teach her to do so that she could make them on her own.  She's kept me around for a long time 'cause she keeps on learning, and is so happy to have abilities beyond duct tape and baling wire!

A little paint on the sheet metal stand, and it will look like an optional accessory!  

boffer wrote:Interesting!  

I've heard them called jiggle weights or jigglers.

I was disappointed she advised against them.  Her reason was that they don't currently make an 11psi jiggler.

 That's a big advantage of the all American Canner the addition of the  pressure gauge allows you to use safe continental recipes that work at 11 psi etc .

 If you're only wanting / going to play with the All American jiggler weight settings for  recipes  it's easy to totally ignore the gauge and not bother even testing it as it is basically redundant in this scenario . I've not bothered much with the gauge on our AAC  since I got it last year save for some British recipes that give 11 psi to pressure can .

 I reckon I must have pressure canned 24 or more batches of all manner of stuff since then ..

 This morning I took the clips off 13 pints of pressure canned cucumber with white onion and dill sweet pickles . ( We made them on Thursday )   They will be fantastic in about three weeks time .

 Come Monday , if the rain stops we hope to pressure can about 12 pounds of unsweetened rhubarb

CapeCoddess wrote:Boffer, thanks for posting what you heard today, especially about the 10 psi increase.  Very important!  I use 15 psi all the time and have yet to crack.  I did however have one jar overflow the first time I canned, which was in 2012, but I was only canning beans so it wasn't too messy.  I learned that filling with liquid up to an inch from the top of the jar doesn't mean 3/4 or 1/2 inch.

Congrats on your new canner!  What kind is it?  

Yolos, I canned split pea soup with ham last year and couldn't believe it had to cook so long!  I think it was at least 1 hr or more.  But I ate that pea soup up until last month.  So worth it!
CC

 When you start using one pint jars and pressure can tomato pulp  the recommended pressure is 10 psi .. if you can at the higher pressure you will take the temperature much higher than is needed ...  not only wasting fuel energy but also causing a slight degradation of the food .
 
I found this out because I tried to pressure can pulped tomatoes , I followed the recipe and mistakenly put the jiggler on at 15 psi .. it caused most of the 8 x 1 pint jar batch to over boil and force food out under the seals . I only found this out when I took the weigh off the de-pressured cold canner . The water inside the canner was a very orangy colour due to  the expelled food being in the water.

 It was the next morning when I took the Weck jar lid clips off that I found that most lids had not sealed .......  something that has not happened previously. so I started to look at things logically .

 I poured the contents in new clean jars , fitted new sealing rings and this time pressure canned at the correct weight .
Result :-
All jars sealed ,  but the colour of the pulp had darkened tremendously to almost a brown colour instead of being a nice fresh open pan boiled tomato colour