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Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.

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Post  Coelli 5/8/2012, 1:17 am

I officially <3 this thread! Forgive me for bumping it...

I have two questions:

1) Has anyone had success with this in hot climates? I'm in SoCal, and we can easily hit over 100 degrees for days/weeks in the summer. My beds have landscape cloth underneath (they were placed directly over old weedy earth) but are filled to about 10". I'm worried the wiggly guys will roast.
2) Will the worms eat seeds if they run across them? What happens to tiny seeds like carrot and onion? Do they get eaten? Do they get moved, so you wind up with your veggies growing halfway across the box from where they were supposed to? I *just* seeded my beds, so this is top of mind. Smile

I really want to do this; I'll probably buy some worms but will also put a bounty on them with the neighborhood kids. Very Happy I have lots of guinea pig poop to feed the worms, too...

Thanks!!
Coelli
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Post  JustMe 5/8/2012, 8:57 pm

@Coelli - My onion and carrot seeds are starting to sprout, and I have 2 worm tubes in a 4x8 SFG. Not sure about the seeds moving since this is my first season with the tubes, but it may explain way some of my seed grids are 'off.'
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Post  Josh 5/9/2012, 5:51 pm

2) Will the worms eat seeds if they run across them? What happens to
tiny seeds like carrot and onion? Do they get eaten? Do they get moved,
so you wind up with your veggies growing halfway across the box from
where they were supposed to? I *just* seeded my beds, so this is top of
mind. Smile

No the worms don't eat the seeds, or plants, they only eat things that are decaying. I often have seedlings growing in my worm bin from things I've put in the worm bin that had seeds, like tomatoes, even without light the seedlings did really well growing in the worm castings in the bin. I have taken them out and planted them before.

Out in my SFG where I have the worm tube, I have never had the worms move any of the seeds around. I think you will be safe that the worms will not do any harm to your seeds. Worm Tube for the SFG - Page 9 692681

I'm worried the wiggly guys will roast.
I can't be sure about your heat, it does get hot here where I live, and they do fine, my thinking is, if the plants can survive the heat, so can the worms, if you roast the plants and you don't water them, then the worms are going to die, but if you keep the plants watered, then I'm thinking that the worms will survive, but I can't be sure, but that is how it is here in my climate.
Josh
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Post  llama momma 5/9/2012, 6:07 pm

Off topic sort of, but still about worm tubes. Installed worm tube number 2 this morning. Then found monster size worms, stretched out a good 10 inches long and thick as a pencil They were under a plastic bag of coffee grounds waiting next to the compost heap. I relocated all of them to the new worm tube. Had straw around the sfg boxes to keep down the grass and found worms like it there too, they were also relocated.
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Post  Coelli 5/9/2012, 6:27 pm

Thanks for the advice. Smile I bought the PVC last night to make the tubes and found a local source of worms on craigslist!

Does anyone know how much coffee grounds they can handle? I take about two pots' worth home from work every day but don't want to OD the wiggly kids.
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Post  crs 5/10/2012, 4:25 pm

So You can use any type of worm?
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Post  llama momma 5/10/2012, 9:33 pm

crs wrote:So You can use any type of worm?

You can simply relocate earthworms from your yard or compost heap to your worm tubes. They can travel around not only horizontally but can go down a couple to several feet too. Your worm tube of tasty treats encourages them to stay around, mulitply and leave castings.

Redworms go by different names such as brandling worms, composting worms, manure worms, etc. Those are the ones that produce loads of castings but typically don't survive below 50 degrees. There are variables since Plantoid over in the UK says he has manure worms survive in cold conditions. But typically everything I've read says they will die below 50 degrees.

Therefore, I have worm tubes for the earthworms outside and redworms located indoors in a worm bin.
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Post  Triciasgarden 5/10/2012, 10:24 pm

I read about this a bit ago and just haven't had the time or ability to get one done. I read about a lady who followed her mom's idea. She pushed old fruit or vegetables into the ground around her regular plants. The worms found the food and did their work for the soil and also multiplied. I tried that some last year and then mostly had to abandoned my garden because my daughter and son-in-law were in a very serious car accident. This year while loostening up my beds I noticed plenty of worms. I had added a few to each bed when I first made them a few year ago. I also had used a shovel and cut a hole or two in the bottom ground cover fabric so if the worms had to go deeper, they could. I had also dumped leaves on the beds to give a little insulation from the cold. Although at that time the ground was frozen.

I can't always get to things when I want or need to because I have fibromyalgia but somehow the worms survived. Did you know worms have eggs. I had never thought about that but they are a tiny yellowish gel looking round egg. I always wondered what those were and never knew. Anyway, until I can get the worm tube going, I am going to keep up the pushing food into the dirt. Just thought I would share.
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Post  llama momma 5/11/2012, 9:19 am

Hey if it works! But consider this---
Assuming you are going to follow the sf gardening method you may find there is not a lot of extra room in your box(es) to put in table scraps. The method is intensive, putting plants very close together. Just a helpful thought! A nice compost heap is the way to go for table scraps. Extra goodies for the garden would be worm tubes. It keeps the scraps in one place and the worms will travel all around. And/or an indoor worm bin could be very convenient for those times your fibrom. kicks up and you don't go outside. You could recycle the scraps indoors for fantastic worm castings. Happy Gardening Smile
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Post  lzalvis 5/12/2012, 11:52 pm

I have been reading a book with my 3yo called "Yucky Worms". I keep thinking how I don't see worms anywhere, or at least very very few. And it got me thinking 'why couldn't I just dump worms in my SFG?'. so this post has been a *huge* educational help!!

If I understand it correctly, there are a few basic components to a successful worm hotel:

1) a pipe or similar upright container/tube that you can make multiple holes in

2) A cover of some sort, to keep out critters, but so you can drop in new food

3) Something breathable to cover the hole on the aforementioned cover - is this to let the worms breathe? What is the purpose of this hole? And what can I cover this opening with? I'm only going to build one, so I just need something easy to obtain in small quantity.

4) Worms. duh.

5) decomposing kitchen scraps, dead leaves, newspaper, etc.

Looking for feedback especially on # 3 - Thanks!!
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Post  Josh 5/13/2012, 12:04 am

3) Something breathable to cover the hole on the aforementioned cover -
is this to let the worms breathe? What is the purpose of this hole?
And what can I cover this opening with? I'm only going to build one, so
I just need something easy to obtain in small quantity.

I first used a flower pot as a cover for the tube, I glued a piece of screen over the hole, the purpose of that was to keep flies/insects out of the tube. A hole is not needed in the cover for the tube. I now have a flower pot that has no hole. Also a pvc pipe end cap can be used and it has no holes.

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Post  Coelli 5/13/2012, 12:57 am

Welp, we have worms! This morning I installed the two towers (which has caused this geeky family no end of pleasure; in fact I think we're going to name them Orthanc and Barad-dûr) and we picked up worms from someone local ($27 for a pound of red wigglers).

The man seemed very concerned that the worms would be living outside in the garden and seemed very skeptical that this would work. I hope he's wrong! I might still get some nightcrawlers too.

I noticed that in addition to the worms there were some weird, fast-moving worm-like guys but they were a greyish tan, kind of flat, with blunt heads and pointy sharp tails. I surely hope they are not some kind of pest...

Before putting the worms in, I added a couple of scoops of our guinea pig's dirty bedding and wetted it down. The worms and all the junk they came in were split between the Two Towers (there I go again Laughing ), and I topped them off with some old lettuce and a pot's worth of coffee grounds apiece.

I guess now we just wait and see what happens.

To cap the towers, I used these: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cJwEACM6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg with two layers of tulle hot-glued into the inside. If we still seem to have pests I'll figure out some sort of washer. We did have to use an adapter to get these snap-in drains to fit, but the cost was minimal. It doesn't rain much here most of the year so I'm not worried about moisture.

We're seriously considering painting them like the Two Towers... or at least writing their names on them, so I can tell the kids, "Go give this to Saruman" or "Hey, drop this down to Sauron." Very Happy
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Post  walshevak 5/13/2012, 2:35 am

Has anyone overwintered worms in a table top? Did the worms survive? How cold did it get? I have delayed putting in worm tubes because the worms can not go deeper to escape the cold or the summer heat. My tabletops have hardware cloth lined with weed block which comes somewhat up the sides of the bed. would the worms stay in the bed or drop through the weedblock and escape into the grass? I have a rubbermaid worm hilton so could divert some wormies to my 10 beds if they would survive.

How short can you get away with. I can't stablize with rebar in the tabletop.

Kay

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Post  JustMe 5/14/2012, 9:15 pm

Walshevak - This weekend I moved two 18" high plastic pots filled with MM from the garage on to the front porch. To my surprise, I found two really large worms in one of the pots. I threw some in last year and honestly forgot about them, so they survived winter in my zone 5a garage.
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Post  llama momma 5/14/2012, 9:40 pm

Walshevak - I had the same concern and Josh answered it somewhere on the forum. The redworms are most comfortable roughly between 50 and 80 degrees. They supposedly don't survive well outside those temps. Having said that, Josh finds worms in his tabletop, I believe those were earthworms that were relocated from the additions of compost. When the plants fill in everything is shaded which probably helps the worms. Personally I'm only going to put redworm castings from my worm bin into the tabletop. Not worry about any earthworms that get in from compost.
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Post  Triciasgarden 5/27/2012, 4:41 pm

Thank you Llama Mama! You are right about the compost bin and the worm tube in the garden. I do have a compost bin I got a little compost from a few weeks ago and a pile I have not turned for two years. I have to try to get that turned over and see what I have below.
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Post  Coelli 5/28/2012, 12:26 am

2 weeks later, reporting in!

Our worm towers, Orthanc and Barad-dûr, have managed to grow some very healthy colonies of some sort of little fly or gnat. I placed another layer of tulle over the pipe to keep any new intruders out, but that's not helping with the ones already inside. Every day or two I remove the tulle and chase some of the gnats out, hoping (in vain, I'm sure) that eventually they will all go away.

I wasn't sure how things were going down there in Wormland, so with my blinding-bright flashlight's help along with a bamboo stake I mixed things up a bit to see if anyone was alive down there. In each tower I spotted at least one live worm (I didn't want to go down too far). I think they're pretty freaking happy down there - the ones I saw looked nice and fat and healthy.

However I am no longer convinced that they'll travel throughout the 4x4 boxes, and I'm wondering if having the towers is worth it or if I should try to relocate everyone to a Wiggler Hilton or something where everything is more easily monitored (not to mention collected). Not only do we lose the space that the PVC towers take up in each box but they also shade the adjacent squares for part of the day.

It's only been 2 weeks, so I guess I should be more patient, right?
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Post  crs 5/28/2012, 3:09 pm

Well... I put shredded paper, then worms, then food and a little water. I think that is what I have read? My question is my brother-in-law got me Panfish Trout Worms fishing worms anybody know about them. I told him not once but alot of times "red wigglers is what I need" He was trying to help. I guess I will try them tho I am not sure what I am doing either. Just sound easier and better than a worm bin/farm.
If anyone can help me out I would appreciate it
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Post  Coelli 6/24/2012, 12:24 am

I posted this elsewhere but thought I'd link to it here: https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t12996-operation-worm-rescue#128951

I pulled up my worm tubes today, having a sneaking suspicion that something wasn't working right, and sure enough, most of my worms were dead and the tubes had filled with soil and roots. The remaining few rescued worms have been relocated to a new worm bin/farm setup. Poor guys!
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Post  boffer 6/24/2012, 1:22 am

walshevak wrote:Has anyone overwintered worms in a table top? Did the worms survive? How cold did it get? ...

I put my worm tubes in my tabletops last fall. I think a 3 lb. plastic coffee can is an ideal tube. (if not attractive) I stocked them with red wigglers. I had temps down to 15° several times. The worms survived, but were not active during the cold weather. They are eating like crazy now.

But, they aren't migrating. They stay in the tube to eat. The castings are getting deep, and I need to move/use them soon. The advantage of the wide coffee can is that I can reach in and pull them all out. But now I have to somehow separate the worms. thinking I'm wondering if a proper worm farm box wouldn't be more efficient. As others have described, it's easy enough to gather earth worms and put them into my TTs. They handle my winter temps too, but I don't get the prolonged heat in the summer that some of you get.
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Post  Coelli 6/24/2012, 2:42 pm

Hey Boffer,

I decided that for me, the worm bins will work out better than the worm tubes since the worms aren't migrating anyway. In the bins they'll have much more room to eat, grow, and expand, and I can move the bins or add to them as necessary. The castings and tea will be much easier to collect. So all in all, the bins are more efficient.

We don't really have many earthworms here (our soil is very rocky and dry) so I was hoping the compost worms would help, but alas, 'tis not to be. Smile I should have listened to the wise folks who said "compost worms are not soil worms"!
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Post  boffer 6/24/2012, 2:50 pm

Coelli wrote:Hey Boffer... I should have listened to the wise folks who said "compost worms are not soil worms"!

Me too! I'm slow, but I get there...eventually! Razz
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Post  Josh 6/24/2012, 4:37 pm

Coelli wrote:I posted this elsewhere but thought I'd link to it here: https://squarefoot.forumotion.com/t12996-operation-worm-rescue#128951

I pulled up my worm tubes today, having a sneaking suspicion that something wasn't working right, and sure enough, most of my worms were dead and the tubes had filled with soil and roots. The remaining few rescued worms have been relocated to a new worm bin/farm setup. Poor guys!

WOW how unfortunate for you and your worms! Glad that you were able to spot the problem and save some of your worms.

I'm not sure what could have happened in you worm tube, I have never had any of those problems with my worm tube.

I have a high rise for carrots in the one square next to my tube, and I grew nanta carrots in the same square as the tube, and a super duper tomato plant in the square on the other side of the worm tube, and never had nay roots get into the tube. What did you have planted in your SFG next to your tube?

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Worm Tube for the SFG - Page 9 6-24-12josh

I never add anything to my garden but rabbit poop/compost in the early spring when I first plant my SFG.

I decided to check out my tube and see what was going on down there,
Worm Tube for the SFG - Page 9 6-24-12wormtube

I didn't find any of those problems you had, and I did see worms.

I don't over fill my worm tube, I give it a chance to empty out before I add to much food, I take the water hose and once in a while was it out, I can see the water run out of it.

I water my SFG everyday that it does not rain, and it hasn't rained in the past 6 weeks or longer, I don't let the soil dry out, for the plants and worms sake.

I have kept a worm bin for the past 7 years using red wiggler worms. In the table top SFG I add worm castings/compost from my worm bin, the TT has many worms, I'm sure that hatched from the worm casting having worm cocoons in it. They are red wiggler worms, I'm sure "dirt worms: have not crawled up into the TT.

I use worm tea and casting from my worm bins in the other SFGs. The only thing else I use is in the spring I add rabbit poop/compost to all the SFGs and a little each time I replant something.
Worm Tube for the SFG - Page 9 6-24-12sfgandmom

I think my worm tube works for me, but that doesn't mean it will work for everyone, so if your using it, or thinking about using it, be sure to check it.
Josh
Josh

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Post  Coelli 6/24/2012, 7:24 pm

Josh wrote:I have a high rise for carrots in the one square next to my tube, and I grew nanta carrots in the same square as the tube, and a super duper tomato plant in the square on the other side of the worm tube, and never had nay roots get into the tube. What did you have planted in your SFG next to your tube?

Hey Josh,

My tubes were in the front left corner of my boxes, each of them set in the upper left side of the squares. One square has Lutz Salad Leaf beets in with the towers, with Butterbean Edamame in the square above it (that one had a few more worms than the other), and the other has Atomic Red carrots in the square and marigolds above it. The boxes are 12" with about 10" of Mel's Mix and are watered frequently with soaker tubes, and the contents of the tube were moist but not wet. You can see the tubes here:

Worm Tube for the SFG - Page 9 7398867016_01fbc1fd4b[/url]

I'm not sure what went wrong. Smile Hopefully the survivors do well in their bins!

Coelli
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Post  Josh 6/24/2012, 8:31 pm

I first put a worm tube in my SFG back in 2010, and there is always red wiggler worms in there. When I first put the tube in, and added the red wiggler worms I was always looking for them, always wanted to know what was going on with the worms, took the tube out several times to see what was inside, dug around in the squares looking for them. In your worm bin, watch them once they get settled, they won't stay in one place, they won't even stay in the bedding, they move around everywhere. You may find later you have more red wiggler worms in the SFGs than you thought you had, but I never found any dead dried up worms, so time will tell. I finally left mine alone and just put the scraps in the tube as I pass by it on the way to the composter/compost pile to add the extra scarps that the tube doesn't need. The food disaprears, I see red wiggler worms when I dig around in SFG, the garden grows well and that's good enough for me Wink
Josh
Josh

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