Planting for the trellis

sanderson wrote:TD,  Do I see a new bed in the future?   I love Canadian CN winter squash.  The necks are pure meat.  I plant 8 winter squash in a 2'x4' bed.  In 2013, I planted them in the fall, thinking they were "winter" squash.    In 2014, I planted 4 Winter squashes with two 2' trellises just at the ends.  In 2015 and 2016, it was 8 WS with a third trellis in the middle.  This year it is 8 WS with 4 trellises.  We shall see.

Turan,  You gave such a thorough answer, specifying the varieties and their trellising needs.

sanderson, I started to prepare the location for the new bed on Friday ( see my Third Year thread). I'm surprised that you only needed 2' trellises. I assume that is the width not the height. Do you allow the vines to drape over the sides of your TTs and trellises down to the ground? 

I'm thinking of using ladder trellises down one long side of the bed.  One side of the ladder trellis would have it's legs inside the bed or just outside the bed and the other side of the ladder trellis would rest on the regular ground a few away from the bed. OR would it be better to go with an EMT Conduit and nylon web type of trellis per the ANSFG book?

Ladder trellis like this ... 

 2' wide!!  The winter squash boxes are 2'x4' and the orientation in the landscape mandates how the trellises must to set.  

In other areas, the 2'x4' boxes are oriented so I can place 4' wide trellises.

The ladder trellis is pretty.  Which type of trellis you choose is up to you.  The ladder is pretty but has a big foot print.  The EMC is plain, but doesn't take up any space.  Winter squash vines can get really long (17' for one of mine that I measured one year) and later in the season the daughter vines start growing.  I let those sprawl out of the box.   WS on right meeting up with cantaloupes on the left, late season.  
Close up.

Back again but this time concerning tomatoes.  I want to grow tomatoes in one of my 4x4 beds. There is a 6 foot high trellis on the north side (actually north-westish).  I have True Black Brandywine, Sweet Million and Roma indeterminate transplants ready to go in. I always remove suckers from my indeterminate tomatoes as they grow except I sometimes allow two to three stems to grow.  Can I plant two Brandwyine, one Sweet Million and one Roma at 1 plant per square along that trellis?  Does it make sense to mix up the varieties like that or would it be better to grow only one variety (e.g., the brandywine) along the trellis?

trolleydriver wrote:Back again but this time concerning tomatoes.  I want to grow tomatoes in one of my 4x4 beds. There is a 6 foot high trellis on the north side (actually north-westish).  I have True Black Brandywine, Sweet Million and Roma indeterminate transplants ready to go in. I always remove suckers from my indeterminate tomatoes as they grow except I sometimes allow two to three stems to grow.  Can I plant two Brandwyine, one Sweet Million and one Roma at 1 plant per square along that trellis?  Does it make sense to mix up the varieties like that or would it be better to grow only one variety (e.g., the brandywine) along the trellis?

Mixing up the varieties is not a problem.  I do it every year.  I am not a fan of the one per square foot so I will let someone else help you on that.

yolos wrote:

trolleydriver wrote:Back again but this time concerning tomatoes.  I want to grow tomatoes in one of my 4x4 beds. There is a 6 foot high trellis on the north side (actually north-westish).  I have True Black Brandywine, Sweet Million and Roma indeterminate transplants ready to go in. I always remove suckers from my indeterminate tomatoes as they grow except I sometimes allow two to three stems to grow.  Can I plant two Brandwyine, one Sweet Million and one Roma at 1 plant per square along that trellis?  Does it make sense to mix up the varieties like that or would it be better to grow only one variety (e.g., the brandywine) along the trellis?

Mixing up the varieties is not a problem.  I do it every year.  I am not a fan of the one per square foot so I will let someone else help you on that.

yolos ... What spacing do you use?  In my Old Style SFG beds (and prior to that in my regular garden) I planted indeterminate tomatoes 18 inches apart and used 6 foot wooden stakes to hold them in place.

trolleydriver wrote:

yolos wrote:

trolleydriver wrote:Back again but this time concerning tomatoes.  I want to grow tomatoes in one of my 4x4 beds. There is a 6 foot high trellis on the north side (actually north-westish).  I have True Black Brandywine, Sweet Million and Roma indeterminate transplants ready to go in. I always remove suckers from my indeterminate tomatoes as they grow except I sometimes allow two to three stems to grow.  Can I plant two Brandwyine, one Sweet Million and one Roma at 1 plant per square along that trellis?  Does it make sense to mix up the varieties like that or would it be better to grow only one variety (e.g., the brandywine) along the trellis?

Mixing up the varieties is not a problem.  I do it every year.  I am not a fan of the one per square foot so I will let someone else help you on that.

yolos ... What spacing do you use?  In my Old Style SFG beds (and prior to that in my regular garden) I planted indeterminate tomatoes 18 inches apart and used 6 foot wooden stakes to hold them in place.

Nobody is quite as nutty as I am about my tomato spacing.  I have 2 foot diameter cages that are eight feet tall.  So two foot centers is my closest.  I have put three tomatoes in an eight foot long box.  There are a few reasons that I space them so far apart.  
1).  Our growing season for tomatoes is 7 months long.  So if the tomatoes do not die from disease or drought or heat, they will be huge (monsters)by the end of the season.  
2).  We have severe disease pressure here in Georgia.  We get early blight every year unless we spray heavily and often with fungicide.  Which I never do for various reasons.  So the farther apart they are planted the easier they are to take care of and slow down any diseases.  
3).  Watering problems.  I do not have drip irrigation and it is so hot down here for so long, the closer you plant them the more often you have to water them.  Having a little distance between the plants allows for more soil to absorb more water and therefore less often watering.
4).  I have plenty of room in my SFG to plant lots of tomatoes and still have room to plant everything I could possibly want to plant.

Thanks yolos for that explanation.

Does camprn plant that close for her Florida weave? That is the only way I can imagine planting that close.
My tomato beds are 30" by 12 feet and I plant 12 ID tomatoes (of several varieties) in that space using strings. I plant as if I had six 30" rows with 2 plants per row. So each plant gets 15" x 24". Even though I do not have the disease pressure that Yolo does, I like being able to easily reach and prune or help pollinate or pick fruit etc. I once did 18" x 18" and had 16 plants. I found it too difficult. However variety does matter in this. I don't know the varieties you are planting well enough to comment on their rambunctiousness level.

One bed is 2'x7 feet and I have indeterminates planted in a checkerboard pattern, 3 on one row, 4 on the other.  I trenched them towards the sides so there is plenty of room between them.  The BTE are caged 27" apart (drip line has 9" spacing drippers so I used those as guide).  Three caged cherries are in a 2'x3' TT but they can do what ever they like. :-)

Camp trenches hers when she plants. I think they are pointed to the sides, also, if I remember correctly.

Sanderson ... can you explain further what you mean by being "trenched toward the sides"? Do you mean you lie the seedlings down in a trench with their tops pointing toward the sides that have a trellis?

Something like in this video?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pMNA6eSDXI


This "farmer" on Youtube does one tomato plant per square but he prunes them to a single stem.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc6_ATF4lp4

TD,  that video is actually the very first thing I found related to square foot gardening. And is what made me look into it further.  I plan on trying his method, with 1 per square and pruning to 1 stem myself.  But as this is my first year gardening, I can't share my results with you yet!

trolleydriver wrote:Sanderson ... can you explain further what you mean by being "trenched toward the sides"? Do you mean you lie the seedlings down in a trench with their tops pointing toward the sides that have a trellis?

Something like in this video?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pMNA6eSDXI


This "farmer" on Youtube does one tomato plant per square but he prunes them to a single stem.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc6_ATF4lp4

I do both of those. I think I learned them both from the ANSFG book.

trolleydriver wrote:Sanderson ... can you explain further what you mean by being "trenched toward the sides"? Do you mean you lie the seedlings down in a trench with their tops pointing toward the sides that have a trellis?

Something like in this video?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pMNA6eSDXI

Yes. I like the video.

It truly depends on Determinate or Indeterminate.....they are completely different creatures.