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Post  erichfrie on 5/5/2012, 9:52 am

When sfg book says a plant needs two square feet are they talking about planting the two square feet along the trellis or deep into the raised bed. Almost ready for climbing things don't want to mess up Planting for the trellis  3170584802
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Post  BillOcala on 5/5/2012, 9:54 am

I took that to mean with spacing recommendations they are saying the plants needed that space for the roots mostly. (apart from the shading issues)

edit - I have some going both ways and it doesn't seem to matter


Last edited by BillOcala on 5/5/2012, 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  camprn on 5/5/2012, 9:55 am

Actually it means the space required for above ground growth. Very Happy

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Post  cheyannarach on 5/5/2012, 10:09 am

So, do they need 2 squares if they are trained up a trellis Camprn? Just curious, this is the first year I am trellising.
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Post  camprn on 5/5/2012, 10:33 am

Oh dear I cannot tell you from personal experience,but I would go with the recommendations from the book or 1 per square. That being said, I would plant at least 4 seeds in the square in the event some of the seedlings don't make it, there are back up plants.

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Post  chjbr63 on 5/5/2012, 11:55 am

My understanding is you need that space on the trellis. The book calls for it on melon and squash because of the large leafs and fruits. With pruning and taller trellis you could get away with one per square but I would think it would be very crowded and hard to manage.
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Post  cheyannarach on 5/5/2012, 11:59 am

Thanks guys, good to know! Very Happy
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Post  acara on 5/5/2012, 6:07 pm

You can single-square plant in a trellis configuration .... but be prepared to devote a lot of daily time to pruning & reinforcing.

I also wouldn't suggest it, unless you are staking the squares, in addition to the trellis.

I've done single square trellising on an entire box (4 x 4 and 1 x 8 ), up to 10' tall, but it's a lot of work.
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Post  cheyannarach on 5/5/2012, 6:13 pm

I think I will stick with 2 squares then! At least until I get the hang of it Wink
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Post  amcon2 on 5/27/2015, 10:55 pm

Can indeterminate tomatoes (Better Boys, Big Boys, and Cherry Tomatoes) be staked for management, instead of trellised,  if i plant one plant per square foot?  I know I need to pinch off the suckers. Is there a need to use cages, as well for better support? I have them planted in squares next to each other. Thanks for any help.
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Post  sanderson on 5/28/2015, 12:56 am

Be diligent about staking the main stem and pruning suckers.

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Post  yolos on 5/28/2015, 10:21 am

I tried stakes once and will never do it again.  The problem lies, not with the suckers (which do have to be removed), but with a stem that just branches off.  Suckers can be easily removed, but what do you do when the main stem just branches into a Y shape leaving you with two main stems/branches.  That is the main problem with just staking.  I ended up putting two or more stakes in to try to hold up the 2 - 3 different branches.  Some varieties branch more than others.
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Post  Turan on 5/28/2015, 11:04 am

With stakes if it does a Y you need to decide which to keep and which to snip.  Or which to let dangle.  With the strings I can just support both easily.  With a net or Florida weave you can bind them.  A cage would do it as well.  Just keep stuffing back in the odd branch you do not want to prune.  I do that with cherry tomatoes they like to branch so much. I give cherry tomatoes about 4 squares though. They are rambunctious plants.

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Post  camprn on 5/28/2015, 11:22 am

I recommend the Florida weave system for plant management for the side by side indeterminate tomatoes. It almost turns tomato plants into espalier. Wink Very Happy

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Post  amcon2 on 5/28/2015, 11:57 am

Thank you all for your responses! Excuse my ignorance but I am not familiar with the Florida weave system. How do you set that up? Would I leave the stakes in place? I was always nervous that I would do something wrong with the trellising and strangle and cut off the stems or not have enough support to hold up heavy stem branches so I used what I was familiar with through the years. Listening to your responses I realize that I will have to plan to do something with the Y branches that will come. I have done heavy tomato planting and am afraid of a hard to manage jungle! I appreciate all your suggestions and help!
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Post  camprn on 5/28/2015, 1:22 pm

I will try to post, later today, some pics of my Florida weave and tomatoes.

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Post  yolos on 5/28/2015, 2:23 pm

@camprn wrote:I recommend the Florida weave system for plant management for the side by side indeterminate tomatoes. It almost turns tomato plants into espalier. Wink Very Happy
On one set of my tomatoes, I am using the string method and the Florida weave.  I don't especially like to prune so if one branch gets away from me, I just hang a string down from an overhead horizontal EMT pipe placed above the whole row and use tomato clips to clip it to a string.
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Post  amcon2 on 5/28/2015, 2:45 pm

Looking forward to your pics, camprn. That will be very helpful.
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Post  camprn on 5/28/2015, 3:06 pm


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Post  camprn on 5/28/2015, 3:20 pm


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Post  amcon2 on 5/28/2015, 8:19 pm

Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions. Think I might give a Florida weave a try for my tomatoes.  Special thanks to camprn for the video which helped me see it better.
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Post  trolleydriver on 5/19/2017, 9:19 am

@erichfrie wrote:When sfg book says a plant needs two square feet are they talking about planting the two square feet along the trellis or deep into the raised bed. Almost ready for climbing things don't want to mess up Planting for the trellis  3170584802

I read through this thread and I'm not sure there was a definitive answer to the original question. If I have a 2x6 bed with a trellis along one side of the six foot length, how many winter squash plants can I grow on that trellis assuming each squash plant requires two SFG squares. If I take two squares for each plant in the row next to the trellis then I only get 3 plants and and I also have an empty 1x6 row for something else. Doing it another way by using both rows in the 2x6 for the squash plants, I can theoretically grow 6 squash plants but nothing else in the box. However, I'm thinking that may create overcrowding of the plants on the trellis. Any suggestions?

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Post  Turan on 5/19/2017, 12:03 pm

@trolleydriver wrote: If I have a 2x6 bed with a trellis along one side of the six foot length, how many winter squash plants can I grow on that trellis assuming each squash plant requires two SFG squares.

I like how you have narrowed this to winter squash. I am imagining a squash arch. The roots of winter squash are not really that extensive but the leaves and vines are. I would use what can the trellis handle as my main factor and I think that answer is 4. One plant on each end and 2, side by side, in the middle. If squeezed for squares I would try to grow quick, short things in the other 6 squares. Possibly with careful leaf trimming you could keep those squares open for planting all summer. I would be tempted to plant them in nasturtiums actually, pretty if they make it and no big loss if the squash over whelm them.

If you had said tomatoes I would say 6 plants checker boarded and 2 trellis doing a V from the bed. That answer has some to do with my level of pruning and that I grow some very rambunctious ID tomatoes. If it was specified San Marzano or Black Russian tomatoes (no Big Beef or Big Boy etc) I might go for 12 plants as these are less rambunctious plants.

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Post  trolleydriver on 5/19/2017, 12:26 pm

@Turan wrote:
@trolleydriver wrote: If I have a 2x6 bed with a trellis along one side of the six foot length, how many winter squash plants can I grow on that trellis assuming each squash plant requires two SFG squares.

I like how you have narrowed this to winter squash. I am imagining a squash arch. The roots of winter squash are not really that extensive but the leaves and vines are.  I would use what can the trellis handle as my main factor and I think that answer is 4.  One plant on each end and 2, side by side, in the middle.  If squeezed for squares I would try to grow quick, short things in the other 6 squares.  Possibly with careful leaf trimming you could keep those squares open for planting all summer.  I would be tempted to plant them in nasturtiums actually, pretty if they make it and no big loss if the squash over whelm them.

If you had said tomatoes I would say 6 plants checker boarded and 2 trellis doing a V from the bed.  That answer has some to do with my level of pruning and that I grow some very rambunctious ID tomatoes.  If it was specified San Marzano or Black Russian tomatoes (no Big Beef or Big Boy etc) I might go for 12 plants as these are less rambunctious plants.
Thanks Turan. Four sounds like a good compromise. I can't do a true arch (e.g., curved cattle panel) but I am thinking of a wood ladder trellis rather than the ANSFG trellis made from conduit. That would be like an arch and the plants could go up one side and down the other side.  I've got Acorn Squash and Canada Crookneck to try on the trellis. I've also got White Bush Scallop and Golden Zucchini summer squash but they will have to find a home outside the SFG. Then there are the melons, cucamelons, and cucumbers for other locations in/out of the SFG.  Bottom line is I have way too many varieties and not enough space.

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Post  sanderson on 5/20/2017, 3:11 am

TD, Do I see a new bed in the future? Wink I love Canadian CN winter squash. The necks are pure meat. I plant 8 winter squash in a 2'x4' bed. In 2013, I planted them in the fall, thinking they were "winter" squash. Embarassed In 2014, I planted 4 Winter squashes with two 2' trellises just at the ends. In 2015 and 2016, it was 8 WS with a third trellis in the middle. This year it is 8 WS with 4 trellises. We shall see.

Turan, You gave such a thorough answer, specifying the varieties and their trellising needs. Very Happy

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